Max Speed:
Range:
Vertical Obstacle:
Trench:
Length:
Width:
Height:
Weight:
Ground Pressure:
Armour:
Armament:
Ammunition:
Service History:
Main Gun Failure Range:
Max Speed:
Range:
Vertical Obstacle:
Trench:
Length:
Width:
Height:
Weight:
Ground Pressure:
Armour:
Armament:
Ammunition:
Service History:
Main Gun Failure Range:
Ignore this - leaving myself a template of the layout with the new category added
M26 Pershing (USA) v Comet (UK)
M26 Pershing
Max Speed: 30mph (48km/h)
Range: 100 miles (160km)
Vertical Obstacle: 3’10’’ (1.17m)
Trench: 8’ (2.44m)
Length: 28’5’’ (8.65m)
Width: 11’6’’ (3.51m)
Height: 9’1’’ (2.78m)
Weight: 92,355lb (41,891Kg)
Ground Pressure: 13.1lb/sq in (0.92Kg/sq cm)
Armour: 0.51’’ - 4’’ (13 - 102mm)
Armament: 1x 90mm M3 gun, 1x 0.3in M1919A4 MG coaxial with main gun, 1x M1919A4 in hull front, 1x 0.5in M2 on turret roof.
Ammunition: 70x 90mm, 5,000x 0.3in, 550x 0.5in
Service History: Served with the US Army from 1945, including WW2 and Korea. Served with many foreign armies until the 1960s
Main Gun Failure Range 2,000m+ (90mm HVAP penetrates 154mm at 2,000m)
In 1942, the US Ordnance Dept. was authorised to develope the T20 medium tank, which was planned to be a test bed for a wide variety of different armaments, suspensions and transmissions, as well as an improvement on the M4 series then in service. One of these developments was the T26 with the new T7 90mm gun and used the Ford GAF engine with electric transmission.
Early in 1943, Armored Command decided that the war would be lost or lost with the M4 Sherman, causing the Ordnance Dept. to embark on several improvements to the Sherman, improving crew safety, mechanical reliability and combat efficency. The Armored Command also objected in general to heavy tanks, saying that they were too heavy and large for combat. On the other hand, Army Ground Forces wanted to build 1,000 T-26s and 7,000 T-25s (developed at the same time as part of the same project and mounting the 76mm and 75mm gun respectively), while the Armored Command wanted a tank with the 90mm gun but not either of the new tanks. The Ordnance believed that the best compromise was the T-26E2 with the 90mm gun.
Army Ground Forces decided to delay any standardisation action until after the Armored Board had decided whether the T26 met their requirements. In order to break the stalemate between the various departments, the Secretary of War sent 20 of the new tanks to Europe as ‘Zebra Mission’ to prove once and for all the battleworthiness of the tank.
In action with the 3rd and 9th Armored Divisions of the US Army, the T-26 proved very succesful in combat and in January 1945 the T-26E3 was adopted as the M26 and named ‘Perishing’ after General John Perishing.
Although the Perishing was too late to make a major impact on WW2, it did take part in several succesful engagements during the march into Germany, including one were a single Perishing destroyed a Tiger and two Pzkpfw IVs. After the war, the Perishing was quickly reclassified as a medium tank and remained in service for many years, being used widely in Korea as well as being supplied to many Allies of the US.
Comet
Max Speed: 32mph (51km/h)
Range: 123 miles (196km)
Vertical Obstacle: 3’ (0.92m)
Trench: 8’ (2.43m)
Length: 25’2’’ (7.66m)
Width: 10’ (3.04m)
Height: 8’9.5’’ (2.98m)
Weight: 78,800lb (35,696Kg)
Ground Pressure: 13.85lb/sq in (0.88Kg/sq cm)
Armour: 0.55 - 4’’ (14 - 102mm)
Armament: 1x 77mm gun, 1x 7.92mm BESA MG coaxial with the main gun, 1x BESA MG in the hull.
Ammunition: 61x 77mm, 5,175x 7.92mm
Service History: Served with the British Army from 1944 to 1958. Still in use with Burma in 2000(!).
Main Gun Failure Range 2,000m+ (77mm APDS penetrates 120mm at 2,000m)
Edit - Have been told that the Comet was not used by South Africa at all, which seems to be the case. Apologies for anyone who was misled
After the tank battles in the Western Desert, it was apparent that British tanks did not have the firepower required to take on German tanks equally. The Cromwell had been given too light a gun (6pdr) which was not powerful enough against armour and was unable to fire an effective HE shell, and attempts to upgun it to the 17pdr were unsuccesful (the Challenger).
Leyland were chosen to develop the new tank, and first looked for the best gun that could be mounted on the Cromwell and then build a tank around the gun, using as many Cromwell components as possible to ease production. The gun chosen was a lighter and more compact version of the 17pounder, the Vickers HV 75mm, which fired the same shell as the 17pdr but with a shorter wider cartridge case which was easier to handle in a tank turret. To prevent confusion over ammunition, this new gun was known as the 77mm gun. Although the gun had a slightly lower muzzle velocity than the standard 17pdr, it was still far superior to any gun mounted on any other Allied AFV at the time.
By the time the Comet entered service, it had gone through many redesigns meaning that 60% of the tank as now a completely new vehicle. The first production models were delivered in September 1944 and the 11th Armoured Division was completely re-equipped by January 1945. Other divisions began to be issued the Comet slowly, but no other division was completely equipped with the Comet by the end of the war.
In service, the Comet was found to be remarkably agile and equipped with tough suspension, with a cross country speed that could be faster than the crew could stand. The Comet could be handled like a sports car over cross country courses by a good driver, and was tough enough to stand up to high jumps at full speed without damaging the suspension. The only real complaint from crews was the thin belly armour, a feature common with the Cromwell. Most user’s frustration seemed to be that such a good tank had taken so long to reach the front lines and never got a chance to prove itself properly in combat.
The Comet was replaced by the Centurion in 1949, although some remained in service in Berlin and Hong Kong until the late 1950s. It also stayed in operational service with both Burma and South Africa until the 1980s, and are thought to still be in service with both nations (although maybe in reserve).
Edited by Dani for fixing invalid pictures.
Another very difficult match.
Do we happen to know if the armour thicknesses given are actual (i.e. the thickness measured at 90 deg to the outer surface) or apparent (i.e. thickness along the line of flight of a typical AP shell)?
IIRC the COMET’s armour is mostly vertical or horizontal (therefore actual thickness would apply) whereas the PERSHING had very sloped armour on the glacis, so apparent thickness might be much greater than 102 mm. This would give it an advantage if pitching the one against the other.
On balance, it’s the PERSHING with its slightly better gun as the tanks are so close in every other respect, a fact I hadn’t previously realised. If asked to vote without the data, based on prior knowledge, I would have said the PERSHING would have surpassed the COMET in every respect, apart from speed and being taller. Just goes to show how wrong I might have been.
I’ll get back to you about the armour in a bit, I’ll check the sources I’ve been using.
I changed the thread status from normal to sticky.
did the pershing also fire APDS?
Any details on the optical systems? Since each can kill the other at maximum range, the ability to hit at range is going to be fairly important.
Close call this one.
Pershing plus points:
Faster traverse - 15 seconds vs 24 seconds
90mm main gun
Slightly better front armour
Lower ground pressure
Comet plus points
Much greater cross-country speed: 16mph vs 11mph
30% greater unrefuelled range
More reliable & more powerful engine & better transmission
I’m going to dig deeper into the properties of both main guns before I vote.
OK, my vote goes to the Comet based on this:
Primary Armament
Ordnance Q.F. 77mm 3inch
Calibre 76.2 mm
Muzzle Velocity 792 m/sec
Shell Weight 17 Kg
Penetration (mm through vertical plate - calculated)
Range(metres) 100 200 400 800 1200 1600 2000 2400
Penetration(mm) 254 251 244 231 217 204 190 176
Flight Time(secs) 0.12 0.25 0.52 1.08 1.68 2.32 3.01 3.74
Primary Armament
90mm Gun M3
Calibre 90 mm
Muzzle Velocity 853 m/sec
Shell Weight 11 Kg
Penetration (mm through vertical plate - calculated)
Range(metres) 100 200 400 800 1200 1600 2000 2400
Penetration(mm) 127 126 123 117 111 106 100 94
Flight Time(secs)0.11 0.23 0.48 0.99 1.53 2.1 2.71 3.35
Unless anyone has different information, the Comet’s gun seems to have far better penetrative properties than that of the Pershing.
I’ve found my new best battle tank!
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/maus/index.html
This beast was gonna weigh 207 tons!!!
SS Tiger, check the first page of this thread.
I shouldn’t be so lazy! I’ll have to say the Tiger then, when it first came on the battle field there was little that could stop it.
The current draw is http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=33969#33969
Vote and argue your vote.
I’ve just finished work, got some revision to do for my VRC353 exam in the morning and then I’ll have a look and see what I can find (same goes for the armour question asked by Fluffy yesterday).
Dani - the pictures worked fine for me, but if there was a problem, thanks for fixing it. I think the problem could be caused by IE (I use Firefox), maybe?
The problem should be elsewhere. I tried both IE and Firefox and I had the same result. More, I copied into a new tab (also a new window) the links and I recieved a 404 error. Seems that the problem was on ww2vehicles.
Enough now with off-topic. Tomorrow I 'll try to vote.
It looks like a problem in the http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/tanks_heavy/pzkpfw_vib.html
It’s a current of “404 error”… Sorry. 8)
Comet armour - pretty much all of it was at 90 degrees, the only non vertical armour was the glacis plate, which was 32mm at 17 degrees. according to this source
Having problems finding anything about the optics at the moment pdf, I’ll keep looking though.
I have managed to find out that the Comet was also used by the Irish Defence Forces until the 1970s though, an attempt being made to rearm them with a 90mm recoiless rifle after a problem was found with the fuse for the 77mm HE shells meant that non could be found.
While the Comet was a very good tank in many respect Ive gone with the Pershing here.
Good Armour, good Gun and a good powerplant. It has taken me a while to decide though as Ive done a bit of research.
The Pershing was a good Tank, some were fitted with a gun stabiliser and apart from Europe they were also used at Okinawa.
The Comet was fast, had a good cross country performance, an amazing engine, but I think would have been bettered by the Panther. The Pershing on the other hand, could, I think have dealt with the Panther, Id like to find any instances where they engaged them though.
A tough choice this, 2 of the best Allied Tanks, for me, the bigger gun of the Pershing wins out in a duel between the two.
Pershing…
After reading here and here I learned that M46, M48 and M60 lineage directed to M26. (An upgrade of M26 was renamed M46).
I respect BDL’s choice and I’ll join Firefly in his vote.
Please note that BDL talked about Comet’s armour and Firefly talked about Pershing’s gun. 
So…
As a side note, as for combat history, wikipedia cited this source