Yes me neither, amazing fact. So the Springfield was not by great American technology.
http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/SpringfieldM1903.asp
Very good information about M1903.
“The 1914 Enfield had been being mfg. for the Brits. under contract in .303 British to supplement their efforts in France. A few minor changes and redesigning the Pattern 1914 to fire the .30-'06 ctg. resulted in the U. S. Rifle caliber .30 Model 1917. Strangely enough, the U. S. Army used more Enfields in France than Springfields (the famous sharpshooter Alvin York actually used an Enfield in winning his Medal of Honor!). The Marines utilized the Enfield in training, but turned them in when they went to the rifle range and took only 1903’s to France. After the war, the M1917 was relegated to a limited standard status and the 1903 was reestablished as the standard issue arm.”
I can’t found any information about “scandal” (but i sure - with Mauser patent happend some strange history, i hawe read it few times and hawe heard it a lot of times). All what i found is: “Sprinfiel used Mauser patents”…
Another good information about M1903:
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl07-e.htm
“Springfield entered into negotiations with Mauser company and finally acquired the rights for Mauser bolt action for amount of US $200 000.”
A lot of “rocks” for 1900 !!! :shock:
Why americans don’t make some Mauser-independable - i dont hawe any idea, ’ cos they in these times got great weponary-tecnologies… “something went wrong…”
USA at start of WWI don’t got enough M1903, don’t got any LMGs… oh, something really was wrong in 1914 with US Army. 
Yes,I don`t know if USA was totally prepared at start of the war.
I have an old mauser in my house.
I see you locky man. 
In Argentina you can keep such weapons in home ? If “yes” - i like Argentina more and more.
I agree that the Springfield was the best boltie of the war. After the war, the brand went on to be considered one of the finest rifles in the world for many many years. Springfield has always been renouned for accuracy and quality of manufacture.
Sure about quality and accuracy.
But what about Remington ?
Specially Remingtom 700s series ? At my look is it best serial marksman bolt-action rifle “for-all-times”.
Sure about quality and accuracy.
But what about Remington ?
Specially Remingtom 700s series ? At my look is it best serial marksman bolt-action rifle “for-all-times”.[/quote]
Exactly. What about the Remington 700? The topic is what was the best rifle of WWII. The Remington 700 was introduced in 1962.
Please, stay on topic my friend. Let’s not fill the threads with “but…” stuff that is not on topic. shaking head
the lee-enfiled bolt action series of rifles were excellent to shot, the lee action of bolt operation with a curved bolt gave a smoother action than other standard service rifles employed by other armies.
The British Army expeditionary Force (BEF) in WW1 was well trained n marksmanship, A British Tommy was paid 1 penny a day extra if he was a Marksman so Soldiers learned to be good shots for their pay. Not only could they hit targets at long distances,they could do it at a high rate of fire. The average tommy could fire over 15 well aimed shots a minute using the lee action, Much to the German Armys dismay.
The Lee actions smooth operation and its direct link to aid the firers ability
to hit targets is bourne out by the fact that the British Army used the lee enfield sniping rifle until the early ninetys in its L42 7.62mm form. The british army still have Lee enfields at Cadet units in .22 calibre until this day.
Surely - thanks for this information - i never know about British Tommy and extra-money for marxman.
SMLE rifles aka Boer (how i know Boers mostly have used Mauser C-98, not Lee Enfield, but SMLE got this name “Boer” in Afganistan ) sometimes occur in Afganistan. Good rifle. Especially 10-riund mag and good accuracy.
That afganian “Boer” SMLE was one weack point - very old cartridge, .303 with old rounded nosed bullets, not WWII era Mk VII bullet. With this old rounded nose bullet got bad ballistic and poor penetrative energy. I tought with new bullets SMLE was much better.
But anyway - soviet soldiers got a lot legends about outstading power and accuracy of these old “Boer” rifles…
Surely - thanks for this information - i never know about British Tommy and extra-money for marxman.
SMLE rifles aka Boer (how i know Boers mostly have used Mauser C-98, not Lee Enfield, but SMLE got this name “Boer” in Afganistan ) sometimes occur in Afganistan. Good rifle. Especially 10-riund mag and good accuracy.
That afganian “Boer” SMLE was one weack point - very old cartridge, .303 with old rounded nosed bullets, not WWII era Mk VII bullet. With this old rounded nose bullet got bad ballistic and poor penetrative energy. I tought with new bullets SMLE was much better.
But anyway - soviet soldiers got a lot legends about outstading power and accuracy of these old “Boer” rifles…[/quote]
Why are they nicknamed “Boer” is there some connection to the Anglo-Boer War??
Yes, i guess is it somehow connected with Anglo-Boer War, but i doubt - afganistanian niknamed this rifle as “Boer” or sovier soldiers…
Is it strange story anyway - since USSR occupation of Afganistan in 1979 a lot of legends starting generated around some unknown weapon with name “Boer”… it these tales that unrecognized rifle was powerfull as Barret and accurate as laser beam. I hawe heard big part of this legends - headshots from range more than 2000 meters, bullets pirced trought personal carriers and even tanks, 10x scopes and other bullshit…
It was beginning of Soviet-Afganistan war and afganistanian (… hmm, what right word for these ppl ?) rebels not get support from Freedom World yet. They used a lot of old weapon from Brittish occupation era, Peabody-Martini and Martini-Henry rifles, old Lee-Endfields… once i have seen something outstanding - captured as trophy shotgun about 8-6 gauge, you-can-put-in-barrel coca-cola can… That shotgun was muzzle-loading, fired from tripod (!) and as load used about half beer can of black powder and half-can of selfmaked from any screws and nails buck-shot. No one know how oprator of this gun can manage with recoil - by legend that shotgun never fired after capturing, because there were no voluntary testers, no one soldiers have agreed get he’s shoulder brocked during test-shot…
That shotgun can’t really kill somebody at range more than 50 meters, but was sutable to hurt whole lot of soldiers and make them out of order… kind of non-lethat one-shot machinegun… 
After time few “Boers” was captured and it was end of terreble legends - these rifles was tested and by result - nothing outstanding, only honestly in the face of God old military bolt-action rifle. With old cartridge and full leaden non jacketed bullet these rifles was useless even against soldier in standard soviet armored jacket.
For correction - “Boer” was common name for all old long barreled wepon in Afganistan, from flint-guns to SMLE. But most frequently that nickname was applicable exactly for old Lee-Endfield/Lee Medfort rifles.
once i have seen something outstanding - captured as trophy shotgun about 8-6 gauge, you-can-put-in-barrel coca-cola can… That shotgun was muzzle-loading, fired from tripod
Praetorian this may have been a duck gun. I have tried to find a picture but can’t. This was a musket with a long barrel and a very big bore. It was fitted to the front of a boat. The hunter would lie in the boat and slowly paddle towards the duck, when in range he would fire and take them as they panicked. It was a large shotgun. They have one in the royal armouries in Leeds.
Very look lke you talk about that gun… really large shotgun. By one shot hunter will kill half-dosen ducks at least i gues… really weapons of mass destruction against ducks !
i will try and find a picture.
Praetorian
I have found a site with a modern duck gun. As with all these things its finding the right work “Puntgunning
http://gallery.puntgunner.co.uk/albums.php
or puntgun. A punt is a flat bottomed boat for marsh area.
One of the guns hanging in the gun club is called a “punt gun” or a “merchant’s gun”. This gun was not really used by the club members, it is just for decoration. Years ago people used to practice shooting the punt gun with nails and glass. The punt gun also used buckshot and black powder to shoot. It could kill 40 to 50 ducks at a time!
http://www.lehsd.k12.nj.us/Summer2002/Moore/HesterSedgeGunClub.htm
it would be more comman thatn I thiought as you will see examples from the US as well.
Words to try a search on are puntgunning, puntgun, punt gun.
http://www.lehsd.k12.nj.us/Summer2002/Moore/HesterSedgeGunClub.htm
Thanks a lot.
I was hardly impressed by this… gun.
Looks like mortair with butt. Best way to shoot oneself… :lol:
By the way, Russian police got in service pretty big shotgun - KS-23.
Is it 8 gauge 3+1 shells pump action shotgun. 23 in name - because bore is 23 mm.
We use it as gas-grenade launcher and “master key” - any door will be opened after shot in lock… With case-shot that gun usable against enymy at range less than 150 yards.
Recoil is pretty hard, bruise spot guaranteed.
This gun today available for civilians and maybe somebody use it as pump-action puntgun.
OK, back on topic.
The main sniping rifles of WW2 were:
Bolt action:
Lee-Enfield No.4mk1T
10rds, .303", 4x scope, built on accurised No.4 rifles by Holland & Holland.
Springfield M1903A4
5rds, .30-06, 4xscope IIRC
Mauser Kar98k
5 rds, 7.92mm, various scopes from 1.4x long eye relief zf4 to 4x
Mosin-Nagant M1891/30
5 rds, 7.62x54R, 4x scope
Self-loading:
SVT40
G/K43
M1D Garand (very late in war)
We can immediately discount the self-loaders, since they are not really accurate enough with the possible exception of the M1D, although that was ergonomically awful since the scope was heavily offset to the left.
Of the bolt actions, the Mauser was not really as accurate as the others. The Nagant is very accurate for the time, but suffered from being long. The springfield was accurate and a good length, but had no auxiliary iron sights. All of these suffered from having a 5 round magazine, which for pure 1-shot sniping is not an issue, but in an infantary sniping mode can be (i.e. supporting troops with relatively rapid aimed fire).
The No.4T has the fastest bolt action of all the sniping rifles, and the best ergonomics, due in part to the addition of a cheekpiece as standard. For the other rifles you have to raise your head to see through the sights and thus cannot get a good cheek weld. Accuracy was comparable with the others (perhaps slightly inferior to the Springfield & Nagant), and the No.4T+No.32 scope combination is practically indestructible. With a calibre change, a heavier barrel and a cut back stock, the No.4 served on with the British Army as the L42, and was produced reportedly as late as 1985. The 10 round magazine helps in the infantry sniping role and could be quickly changed, although the rifles were usually reloaded through the open action.
Hmm, for infantry sniping those refused by you self-loaders wold be more usefull than bolt-action rifles. I tought by this reason USSR adopted SVD (wich is not exactly sniper rifle, but “autorifle with increased accuracy” and USA adopted M21 - same story.
Detachable mag SMLE - outstanding option, one on kind. As i know, no one more mlitary bolt-action rifle had such mag… i
You sayd - “The No.4T has the fastest bolt action of all the sniping rifles”… fastes by rate of fire or you meand something else ? If you meand rate of fire - is it not so important for sniper rifle in normal “hunter” mode of snipng - anyway you can’t make few aimed shoots from one position immediately, 'cos all killing shit, from bullets and mortar shells to curses start to fly in your direction after second shot.
After shot sniper never make second shot, is it warranted way to kill himself - by this reason USMC snipers never load full mag their M-40, only one round - to avoid even tought about second shot from same position.
I sure - you know it. I just show you -i know it too.
In infantry support mode - yes, better have 10 rounds mag than 5 rounds. It increase rate of practicall fire without doubts.
Hi Praetorian;
With regards the semi-automatic snipers rifles, these have a time and a place alongside bolt action rifles. I believe that in much of the US forces, the sniper team will carry a bolt action rifle and an accurized M-14 as well. This gives a good combination of firepower and accuracy for the team. I will grant that some of the very modern snipers rifles, like the H&K PSG 1 are of sufficient accuracy to replace bolt action rifles in many roles, but in WWII I don’t think there was much that could.
With regards the Lee Enfield No4, the bolt action is significantly faster to use than a standard mauser action, as the bolt uses rear locking lugs instead of the lugs at the front of the bolt found on a mauser type. The disadvantage of this is that the action is not as strong, no problem with .303 ammo, but it is not as good with high pressure hunting rounds, hence the universal nature of Mauser type actions in modern sporting bolt actions. Also, the lee action does not have extractor claws which grip the round as it feeds. I’m sure your aware that on a mauser you can operate the bolt with the rifle upside down and it will still feed properly, this cannot be done with a Lee.
Nonetheless, the superior speed of the action, and the less strength required to work it, means that you can operate the bolt very fast without leaving the aim. In 1914, ALL British soldiers had to be able to shoot a minimum of 15 aimed shots per minute, and many could shoot more. Bear in mind that this includes time to reload the clip.
Its also worth noting that despite the detachable magazine, the Lee was generally loaded from the top using 5 round clips into the 10 round magazine, the mag tends to shed rounds if you carry it loaded.
This made the Lee an excellent infantry rifle, as it was very fast, and a good sniper rifle in the infantry support mode. There are times in sniper ‘hunting’ roles when a second shot is possible/necessary, and again the bolt action of the lee allows the bolt to be operated very quickly and with the minimum of effort/movement.
That said, there is lots to be said for mauser actioned rifles too, I have one in CZ which is great, although not as slick as a lee!
Alex
Everything you could want to know about Lee Enfields:
http://www.leeenfieldrifleassociation.org.uk/
http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~stratton/en-page.html
http://enfields.freestarthost.com/
Andon the .303 Cartridge:
Hope these are of interest to someone!