Ale !
Thanks a lot for really interesting information about Lee Endfield aka SMLE - i can’t say that i know a lot about it, few shoots from old afganistan’s trophy don’t matter. I instinctivly feel simpathy to SMLE, something lile intuition.
And now i know what meand Man of Stoat when he wrote “The No.4T has the fastest bolt action of all the sniping rifles…” Thanks again !
So now i need now some information about SMLE No.4T accuracy… maybe links will help.
By the way - during WWII was special “sniper’s” cartridge for SMLE No.4T or not ?
Thanks !
I’m afraid I don’t know about special ammunition, I would have thought so though.
Here is the No4 Mk1 T http://enfields.freestarthost.com/ri10.htm apparently they were modded up by Holland and Holland!:shock:
They fetch about £3000-£5000 in the UK nowadays.
I gather that they were based on rifles that could already achieve 1.5 or 1 MOA of accuracy before modification. I don’t know what they could achieve afterwards, but I know that many were still being used for competitive 1000 yard shooting until the 70’s.
Most of the wartime No4;s were in the 1-2.5 moa range, wartime manufacturing was not the greatest! Still, for the period that was great, and it is still ok for hunting and service rifle/practical shooting. I too have a big thing for Lee Enfields, the first ‘proper’ rifle I ever handled (except an airgun!) was a Drill No4, and I learnt to shoot using Lee enfield .22lr rifles at cadets in my early teens. They just feel like a ‘real’ rifle! 
i’m currently trying to sort the paperwork so I can buy one!
Ale I was also taught to shoot on a No 8 and fired full bore SMLE but it was a long time ago. Adopting the prone position from standing and being able to reload keeping the barrel pointing at the target. Took a number of years before I could do it.
Praetorian I have in the back of my mined that they made SMLE copies in the back streets of India. It may be that some of these that they came across in Afghanistan. I knew a sniper instructor who told me that the scope for the No 4 was also used on the bren because it was so accurate.
I am also under the impression that automatic rifles are not as good as bolt because most of them have to break at the butt to be cleaned and so break the line of the weapon.
2nd, they probably do make some Smellies in the back streets in India, but if you’re looking for some really impressive home engineering, Darra just over the border is worth a look if you ever find yourself in the area.
They make copies of everything, from a jaziil, through the bolts to G3s and AKSUs.
Plus indirect fire wpns if that’s your thing !
Test firing occurs up into the air in the street, á la Afgani weddings however, so you might need to avoid A10’s.
Unfortunately it has become a tourist haven over the last few years, but if you avoid the walts you can still have an amusing day there.
With regard to the self-loaders being used in an infantary sniping role, they were limited by their range: the Russian SVT reportedly was not much good beyond 200m.
The record for speed shooting an SMLE was achieved in 1914 by a Pt. Snoxall, who achieved 38 hits in one minute. The most I’ve ever achieved was 25 in about 50 secs with my No.4 (I ran out of ammo!). The No.4 bolt is almost identical to the SMLE bolt, but is usually a teeny bit slower (personal experience - the tolerances on the SMLE tend to be a bit looser).
The comment about self-loaders breaking in the middle does not apply to all, especially not in WW2, since most transitional self-loaders are built in a similar configuration to a bolt-action.
Hmm… sniper version of SVT 40 not same with usual infantry SVT 40… i sure you may know it, but is it not widely known fact. sniper version of SVT was made not on a usual line of manufacture, barrels were made on separate precision machine tools, before WWII most of sniper SVD had nut stock and butt instead of birch. By soviet stadards sniper SVD could be transferred from a factory to army only if 10 shoots make hits were not fallen outside the limits with 12 sm (120m) of a rectangular at range 300 meters.
The most bad property in this rifle - strong unmasking mussle flash during shot, just property of overpowered russian/soviet 7.62x54R cartridge - muzle flash big enough even in mosin-nagant rifle M1891/30… and this cartridge with rim real headache for any auto weapon…
SVT40 has twist pitch 320 mm (240 mm in mosin-nagant) - it make better bullet stabilization in flight and better unstabilising at an entrance in an obstacle.
Anyway, soviet woman-sniper lt. Ludmila Pavlichenko killed 309 enemies during WWII with SVT 40… not bad for “limited by range rifle”…
Legends about bad accuracy of SVT widely replicating… i don’t know who was autor of this legend, but text everywhere identical, it is quoted same source…
Basing at my own experience usual non-sniper SVT accurate to hit machbox at 100m.
I’m hopefully getting an SVD soon (if I can find one), so once I’ve got it I’ll report back on its accuracy. All the sources I’ve read indicate that it’s not much good as a sniper rifle beyond 200m, and that the high-scoring snipers preferred the Nagant.
EDITED ! My mistake - i tought you meand SVT instead SVD…
Good idea !
I can make one advice - better if you can get SVT produced before 1941 - i guess is it hard to find and more hard to find good rifle (btw SVT barrel should be replaced after about 7000 shoots, 'cos accuracy will be lost, not much, huh ?). Todays SVT, presented in local Russian market usually have varios quality - from extremaly poor to brand-new.
Usual SVT 40 accuracy - 5 shoots from 100 yards in 80 mm rectangular with standard cartridge.
And better make chromium-plating inside chamber (necessarily !) and barrel and gas-mechanism right after after purchase SVT - that rifle really got problems with corrosion.
As all russian things - SVT good thing for any tunings and customizings.
P.S.
Btw i guess you’ll find this rifle very familar in arrangement - it’s pretty similar with L1A1, especially in trigger mechanism.
But today hard to find SVT 38/40 even in Russia, i have heard in Ukraine much easy get SVT than elsewhere. I don’t know how hard get SVT in USA or in UK (if in UK possible generally get any autorifles).
I’m not in the UK, so the ban on self-loading rifles is not a problem for me.
I also own an L1A1, and personally rate it as the best 7.62mm battle rifle, for many reasons which are off topic for a WW2 forum! 8)
So, in that forum at least two FN-FAL/L1A1 fans, you and me… 
In a context of constructive similarity SVT and FN-FAL it not the big off-topic sin i hope.
Oh, i shold apologize - i missreaded your post about SVD - i meand SVT 38/40 in my post … :oops:
I will edit my post a bit… no SVD - SVT !!! :oops:
Man of Stoat wrote
The comment about self-loaders breaking in the middle does not apply to all, especially not in WW2, since most transitional self-loaders are built in a similar configuration to a bolt-action.
But is this a problem with self-loading, or is it just an assumption.
The record for speed shooting an SMLE was achieved in 1914 by a Pt. Snoxall, who achieved 38 hits in one minute.
It is amazing how a comment by someone will bring back a memory and a comment by another. My grandfather told me of a problem they had in WW! (he joined at 14 and also served in WW2 a as Div CSM). Soldiers would get so hipped up and continue to fire even when out of ammo, just going through the procedure of opening and closing the bolt. Just remained me that some one commented that after 8 rounds the M1 ejects the clip with a ping and that the enemy could hear when your reloading. It is hard enough to communicate with each other in a firefight let alone hear a ping. Another Hollywood truth?
They do make a loud pinging noise when the empty en-block clip is ejected, the sound coming from the ejection rather than the clip impacting with hard ground.
It is quite noticeable on the firing point when training, but as you rightly say there is plenty of other noise in a contact and the ‘ping’ is likely to go unnoticed by those downrange.
Heh… During transient fight not always you notice that the weapon has become empty, adrenalin and panic not great assiatants to attentiveness…
Sound of ejecting empty M1 Garand clip ? During firefight ? :lol: In real fight you can be wounded and not pay attention to it…
I guess not sound, but view of a taking off clip can be noted by enemy during very closed combat and it would be good sign for enemy what exactly now to kill you it is the most safe chance. But is it good sign for gun owner too - that rising up clip meand - your weapon empty now and you can’t return fire, better now get some cover and reload your rifle …
With AK this problem is much more difficult - possible to shoot last cartridge in mag and do not know at all, that it last to get into closest fight and to appear there easy trophy for enemy.
Better ejecting clip and opened in backward position bolt than nothing…
I can easily believe the story about soldiers continuing to work the bolt in combat when empty: most Mauser rifles have a built-in “idiot stop” to prevent this happening (also P14/M17, Springfield, Schmidt-Rubin + others, but not SMLE, No.4, Nagant + others). I’ve seen people in rapid fire competitions fail to count their rounds and get a “click” after having closed the bolt on an empty chamber.
The ping is indeed noticable, but the Garand is so fiendishly fast to re-load that it serves more as a warning to the firer than the enemy. I’m not sure I’d particularly notice it with rounds coming my direction from close range. In any case, if one guy goes ‘ping’, his buddies have still got rounds up the spout!
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The PSG-1 sniper system (PrazisionsSchutzenGewehr, or “high-precision marksman’s rifle” in English) had been developed by the German company Heckler - Koch by the mid-1980s as an ultimate police and counter-terror weapon. Some German elite law-enforcement groups, like GSG or KSK-9, participate in this development, and since its introduction the PSG-1 had been adopted by various police forces in Europe and Americas. It is way too heavy and somewhat too gentle for military use, so it never seen any military use. Instead, HK developed two more sniper weapons. The first, that actually preceded the PSG-1, was the G3-SG1, an accurized and scope-fitted version of the basic G3 automatic rifle for German Army. And in the mid-1980s HK also developed a derivative of the PSG-1, called MSG-90, for export military sales. The PSG-1 is still offered by the HK, and is one of the most expensive factory-made sniper rifles on the market, hitting the $10.000 price tag in the basic package.
Technically, the PSG-1 is no more than a heavily modified G3 rifle. It features the same roller-delayed blowback action, derived from earlier CETME rifles, and the same stamped steel receiver with separate detachable trigger unit. The heavy barrel is precisely made by the cold hammer forging process with polygonal rifling for improved accuracy and longer life. Special trigger unit features a semi-automatic only hammer group and the adjustable trigger with trigger pull of about 1.5 kg (3 lbs). The ergonomically shaped pistol grip features an adjustable palm stop. Plastic buttstock is also adjustable for height and for length of pull. Another non-typical feature of the PSG-1 is the “silent bolt closing device”, actually similar to the forward assist, found on M16 rifles. This is apparently to be used in situations where a complete silence must be maintained until the shot is fired. The devise is no more that a pushbutton, located just behind the ejection port, and linked to the bolt carrier by the ratchet-like device. The rifle is fed using standard 20-rounds G3 magazines or special 5-rounds magazines. There’s no open (iron) sights on the PSG-1. Instead, it is fitted with the Hendsoldt 6X42 fixed power telescope sight with illuminated reticle. The scope has built-in range adjuster that works in ranges from 100 to 60 meters, so 600 meters is considered the maximum effective range. Most strangely, the PSG-1 had no integral bipod. Instead, it is often used with the separate rest, mounted on the compact tripod.
Herr Hitler, the PSG1 is a bit off-topic for a WW2 forum, don’t you think? 8)
hey, don’t they want the best sniper rifle?
In that case AH, it definitely isn’t the PSG1 or 2 !
Yeah ! :lol: :lol: :lol:
For WW2 the best Rifle I have to say was the Mosan nagant, with litle recoil and fast magazine loading.
The german kar98 and the russian mosan nagant are quite similar descriptions aswell and use the same brand of ammunition.
A reliable scoped rifle (sharpshooter) would have to be the scoped mosan.
The U.S.A’s scoped rifle, “The Springfield” , which is a manual bullet feeding short sighted rifle, would had to be the most unreliable.