I would go with JFK on this one, but only just. I think another term may have made this decision much easier.
Reagen had his good points, but I think the actor sometimes merged with the President.
Regards digger.
Whats the term about the Clinton’s? They are “congenital liars”! As for Bush, he lost me on the illegal immigration issue. I have no love for this man either. But you can say one thing about him, he has largely kept his campaign promises. He was always for “comprehensive immigration reform”, “campaign finance reform” (another blow to the Constitution), he cut taxes, etc. That’s why people hate him so., he did what he said he would. Yeah, Clinton was a good President in a sense, he has good political skills, and he could make you like him even though you knew he was a louse.
Don’t call me an idiot, MAGGOT BRAIN! Lets keep it civil here. Yes, I agree, we have been sold down the drain by our own elected officials. We, “the people” have let all this happen. We are the ones who don’t vote in record numbers, we are the ones who buy all that China crap. The fact is, I fear all is lost. The politicians keep most of us happy with full bellies and a roof over our heads. Nobody wants to do anything about it either.
Buy the book? The Gulf War was only in a cease fire mode. The war could be resumed at any time for Saddams lack of adhearance to the said ceasefire agreement. The U.N. passed how many resolutions? Did Saddam comply with any of them? Yes, the whole thing is a meatgrinder. What do you do? Look at Iran and the nuke issue. They keep defying the UN. Everyone says they don’et want a nuke Iran, but the UN will do nothin and soon Iran will have nukes. What will stop them? Asking? Pleading? Begging? In the end we will do .nothing and then the mideast will be in a real mess.
Yes, you got me going. This is a great subject. Nothing gets my goat like the politicians of today. Love him otr hate him, we all got our feelings about William Jefferson BLYTHE Clinton.
This is not about Bill. OFF-TOPIC.
Israel will never let Iran get nukes. When Saddam was working on nukes they went in and took them out. That was a bit easier since Iraq and Iran were at war. Im all in favor of Iran having nuclear power but nukes are a different story. In this case im not worried about what the UN/Iran/US will do im more worried about Israel in this case. Talk about the shit hittin the fan in an already bad situation.
Might add … its not like they are going to have them tm. Still away off. Hopefully the UN will get off its ass and do something otherwise whats the point. The UN is the way to go but things happen to slowly sometimes.
Play nice ladies! 
Clinton had an extremely easy ride from the media, particularly the European media, purely because he was a Democrat.
Imagine the headlines had a republican government gone into Kosovo and bombed Libya.
Also remember that most of the planning and preparation for 9/11 was carried out while slick Willie was in office, yet the whole thing is somehow bush’s fault, Clinton getting a free pass for doing nothing.
Had he been a republican and done exactly the same things, the media would have been all over him like a rash and we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Thanks Man of Stoat. Kosovo was a no win situation. The western press largely backed the move, but the people on the ground reckoned he dithered around for too long before taking action. Of course this was all after the EU wimped out on taking any strong action.
Regards digger
The EU has always relied on the US presence in Europe for its defence. had the Soviets rolled over the inner German border at any time between 6 p.m. on Friday and 8 a.m. on a Monday, it would only have been the American and British forces in Germany holding them back, the others all having gone home for the weekend .
A favourite game of the European countries is to do nothing, insist that the Americans do something, and then slag the Americans off as the “world police” when they do. it really boils down to “we want the Americans to sort it out, but we want to complain about it too”
Frankly, given that the Europeans couldn’t sort out a minor problem in their own backyard on their own justifies the American view that the Europeans are utterly ineffectual whinge bags. And I am European!
I remember the night hostilities commenced. Clinton gave what I thought was a well balanced sincere speech as compared to Tony Blair’s attempt at Churchillian oratory, which failed miserably especially when he wistfully looked off in the distance.
Yes, I do not know how you Europeans can share the same continent with the French.;):rolleyes:
Regards digger
Which countries border Iran east and west, and put it in a pincer if invaded simultaneously from those countries?
Afghanistan and Iraq.
Where are American forces?
Afghanistan and Iraq.
Which nation labelled Iran as part of the Axis of Evil?
America.
If you were in Iran, would you feel threatened by a situation equivalent to America being sandwiched by China occupying Canada and Mexico?
What did America do when the North Koreans, also part of the Axis of Evil, made out that they were going more seriously nuclear?
Rush to accommodate them.
What could Iran have learned from this?
How about: Go nuclear and America will rush to accommodate us?
What could Iran learn from the different American treatment given it and its North Korean Axis of Evil partner?
How about: America rushes to accommodate North Korea but not us?
What happened to the third country in the Axis of Evil, being Iraq, when it was alleged by America to have nuclear weapons?
It got invaded.
What could Iran conclude from the favourable treatment that North Korea got from America compared with what happened to Iraq with considerably less evidence and no provocation?
How about: America is engaged in a crusade against Islam?
What would be a reasonable Iranian response?
Get some serious weapons for the inevitable invasion by American forces on their borders, and make them and their allies pay dearly for any invasion.
Maybe if America had a current president who was rather more measured and intelligent in his pronouncements and exercise of military power, like Clinton was and Bush isn’t, Iran’s mullahs and assorted dangerous Islamic ratbags would have been happy just to puff themselves up by condemning America as the Great Satan and pronouncing fatwas on Salman Rushdie and so on, without actually doing anything much more than jerkin’ their gherkins about how they were in a real conflict with far-away America.
Iran hasn’t moved to America’s borders, nor did it initiate the Axis of Evil approach, so it can’t be blamed for the current situation where it has responded to a legitimate concern that America is determined to carry out Bush’s clear desire to take it out sooner or later.
I don’t like the idea of Iran having nuclear weapons, but I’m not happy with the way America uses its military muscle either. Or the way my country goes along with it like a pathetic little lap dog.
Good points, Rising Sun. Of course we would react likewise if we were being sandwhiched. But, we can not forget that Iran is being driven by religious ideology. Somewhat fanatic if you ask me. They want to eliminate Israel, call America the “Great Satan”. Face it, America’s position in the Middle East is all about oil and it’s free flow to the rest of the world. Let’s not be too hard on America though, in the course of history we have done more for freedom and liberty than anyone else. Imagine what your life would have been like if you had had to grow up under the banner of Japanese benevolance.
Agreed.
It would have been more accurate for me to say that I’m not happy with the way America uses its military muscle after Afghanistan.
I was in favour of rooting out Osama and his crew in Afghanistan, but Iraq is a different issue that’s made things worse rather than better, and not just for America, by becoming a focus for all the Islamic fanatics on the planet. It has greatly increased conflict and resentment between Islam and the West and widened the range of Muslims who support the fanatics. None of this bodes well for the future.
As has been observed by others, Bush’s military adventurism in Iraq has destroyed the enormous international goodwill that existed towards America after 9/11, and still after Afghanistan. From an outsider’s viewpoint, he’s done more damage to America’s standing in the eyes of the rest of the world than any post-war president, and probably any president. That alone makes him a far worse president than Clinton.
Well, to be honest, I don’t give a hoot to our “standing in the eyes of the rest of the world”. Like him ot not, he is our elected President, his administration sets foreign policy and that’s that. The electorate will pick another and America’s foreign policy could change. I am just so tired of the UN though, the immense waste of my tax dollars to said organization. We pay a lot of the freight and the rest of the world spits in our eyes. America has it’s own Constitution and that is the only document we should live by. If I am to be a slave in the wheel of life, by God I wish to be a slave under an American master. Like I say, George Bush is not my favorite guy. He has violated the U.S. Constitution himself , in fact we have very few politicians in this country who make laws according to it anymore. They say they do, but they really don’t. I am just so totally disgusted with it all! As for the Muslin fanatics, they hate us for who we westerners are (our religion), and all that we have. We didn’t do squat to them and bang! 911. There is nothing we can say or do to make them like us. You need to realize that ALL WESTERNERS are in their crosshairs. They will kill you and your children in a heartbeat, all in the name of their Allah. Prepare yourself for a long war is all I can say.
I certainly hope it changes because one could not to any worse than this president. Every day I watch the news and read the newspaper it gets worse. It has been a long time since a US president has attacked a country “just because he wants to”. This has brought shame on our country. Worse, it has resulted in over 3500 dead American boys and girls.
I am just so tired of the UN though, the immense waste of my tax dollars to said organization. We pay a lot of the freight and the rest of the world spits in our eyes. America has it’s own Constitution and that is the only document we should live by.
There are many people in the US who don’t like the United Nations, and in some areas of criticism they are right - there is corruption and feather bedding, and the awarding of committee assignments to countries that have neither earned it nor deserved it. Hmmmm, sounds a little like the House and Senate under the Republicans selling everything but the doilies on K Street.
As for wasting your tax dollars, how about throwing away half a trillion dollars of your tax money on NOTHING?
As a proportion of its GNP, the US actually spends less money than any western European nation on foreign aid.
I’ve noticed that some of my compatriots are a bit blinded by the “righteousness” of their cause that they lose any sense of perspective on what they are doing. I think you identified a host of these issues, RS, and quite properly pointed them out. I find it amazing, or at least fascinating, to watch Bush and Cheney trying to raise that old drumbeat once more and turn it against Iran.
It reminds me as nothing so much as the insane and phony propaganda of the president concerning Saddam’s WMD, only now it is Iran’s WMD that we are supposed to be worried about. At this point in history, it is worth noting that among the US, Iraq and Iran, the only country that actually has WMD, is the US. Bush said, in an interview during this time, that “he’s (Saddam) is a madman.” He said it more than once. I think we have a right to ask now just who the madman was.
More to the point, perhaps, one reason, perhaps the reason why we have a problem with Iran now is because we toppled the only regime - bad as it was, I grant you - that was a countervailing force against Iran: Iraq! In effect, we “delivered” Shi’ite Iraq into the hands of Shi’ite Iran, proof that the “Law of Unintended Consequences” deserves a second look, unless, of course, this is what Bush wanted, which would be difficult to believe.
Americans have really short memories. It was President Reagan who gave Saddam many, many millions in arms and aid because it was fighting an eight year war against Iran. I’m sure many have seen the video of none other than Donald Rumsfeld visiting Saddam Hussein and warmly shaking his hand. And, lest we forget, it was April Glaspie, Bush’s ambassador to Iraq, who told Saddam - the transcript of her talk with him is available on the internet - that the US didn’t have a problem with Saddam’s problem with Kuwait’s borders. Good lord. Recent history is full of ironies. Anyone who thinks we have exercised good judgment on the world scene since Reagan and Bush1 and Bush2 have trod on the world scene might want to rethink their position. Only now, we are in a mess, a quagmire and a disaster of such proportions that it is possible that future historians, when describing the long moment when America was eclipsed on the world scene, will be talking about Bush2 and Iraq.
Perhaps the greatest irony of all is that the one country in the so-called “axis of evil” which truly is nuts and certainly evil - North Korea - and actually has nuclear weapons, gets a free “Get of Jail” card from Bush. If this doesn’t confirm that Iraq and the hoax of WMD was all about oil, then nothing does. If Bush had been really serious about WMD, he would have gone after the one guy who actually had them and said so.
There is a lot of what appears to be religious fanaticism in certain locales in the Middle East. We are concerned that these Muslim clerics will take over regimes just as they have done in Iran. Non-religious regimes in the Middle East are worried about Muslim fundamentalists who want to run governments and follow their skewed interpretation of God’s law. We are so blinded by this that we do not see that the Jerry Falwells (now deceased) and Pat Robertsons in this country want to do exactly the same thing to America. They want to tell us what to think and do and how to live our lives. Ironic, isn’t it?
Go figure.
If i hadnt just woke up I would go on about this but 1st let me just get a clarification. Do you mean your average American or the US govt or both?
If i hadnt just woke up I would go on about this but 1st let me just get a clarification. Do you mean your average American or the US govt or both?[/quote]
- I would like the answer to my question. 2.Does anyone else have a problem with this one or is it just me?
Well, Laconia, if pirates based in Bermuda attacked us and sank some of our ships, I really don’t think the proper reaction is to attack Costa Rica and lie and say the Costa Ricans are harboring the pirates. Oh, and by the way, the Costa Ricans are working on a nuclear bomb. LOL. That’s what Bushie did when he shifted away from Afghanistan and attacked Iraq. It seemed so obvious when he did it then and seems ten times more obvious today. Why are there people who deny the obvious?