Do you think the USSR would've defeated Germany w/o allies?

The USSR did destroy more of the German army than the other allies did but I believe that its contribution to destroying the German airforce was well under 50 % since most of the luftwaffe seems to have been withdrawn from the USSR by 1942/1943.

To sum it up, no. On the Eastern front, each side had give or take 400 divisions, whereas each side had give or take 50 on the Western Front. If Germany had all 450 on the Eastern front, they may have won.

And what if Germans had 450 divicions in the Western front- Is the game over for the allies in Africa and Normandy?:wink:

well even if the germans had 450 divisions on the western front wouldn’t the allies have still had air superiority and the superior industrial power which after all was the main reason for the allied victory

Well after the capturing of Aftrica , sea blocade of Britain, occupation of oil fields of Kavkaz (and inavitably Iran )- would the allies had a such industrial superioriry as you tell?
Coz the lack of resources WAS only the reason why the German industry losed the competition with allies.
BTW if the whole German air forces were presented in the Western front - i/m seriously doubt the allies would have the air superiority.

Cheers.

you gotta look at it this way. Hitler thought his Eurpoean mainland was completely safe and inpenetrable. Which ultimately led him to continuing the campagin against USSR.

I think that had Hitler not attacked USSR, the German fighting force could have eaisly prevented an invasion such as Normandy. Because the disadvantage of attacking countries far apart from another, is you SPREAD OUT AND THIN LINE YOUR DEFENSES.

(many say that this is a result of the Roman and Greek Empires – as well as problems within.-- these two empires had so much landmass to cover, that the line of soldiers grew thinner and thinner)

So Ultimately, if the war were just Russia and Germany. Germany would have won (considering if they had the North Afrika Corps, and the French Invaders with them)

Well i’m agre with point that the the too Great landmass is the problem for Impire.
And you right Hitler feels free to began the new Great East Company in 1941 he absolutly did not fear the Britain coz he controlled the situation;)
And Nazy Germany ( i.e the whole continental Nazy Europe) could won the USSR alone.
But this is ONLY in the case that the USA &Britain should be neitral or friendly for the Nazy. In other case the Hitler could not withdrw the troops from the France.
BTW if the USSR were sure about Japane in 1941 he could used the Far East troops ( even during the most bloody battes in the Stalingrad in the Far East there were reserved about 1 million of soldiers agains Japane).
This force could neitralised the additional 50 Western front divisions.
Sure this is ONLY supposion;)Like and the USK friendly for the Nazy in 1941

True. Very True. And I agree— I had totally forgotten that the USSR had a Reserve group of the Far East.

So really there are ways that Hitler might have beaten USSR alone, and there are those insignificant russian specks–that always muster up plans to ruin hitler’s scemes.

So what it all boils down to, is that there are ways Hitler could have won, or Stalin could have won. And the only way to resolve it, is for Hitler and Stalin to be locked in a forever-enduring duel in hell :smiley: lol

India was on the allied side so I would think that the vast population of that country could help to win the war. Does anyone know why more of them were not utilized for the war effort?

Indians Volunteered, they weren’t conscripted. Nearly 3 million volunteers, one of the (if not the) largest all volunteer armies ever.

There were also a few troublemakers like Ghandi cutting about.

The Indians also had a government recognised by the Nazis as a government, the Provincial government of free india or similar which also had it’s own troops although I don’t think they entered battle directly.

At the time, the Indians were trying to pull away from the Empire and gain freedom. It was seen as slightly hypocritical that the British were asking htem to fight for freedom, when the Indias weren’t free from the British.

The King of Nepal also put forward (unasked) many volunteer troops (Gurkhas) and both Indians and Nepali monarchs and princlings made gifts of Machine Guns etc to the British.

If you’ve read The Longest Day by Cornelius Ryan, you’d know the reason that the Allies had air superiority was because Hitler ordered the Luftwaffe to go East. There were exactly 2 German planes present at Normandy on June 6, 1944.

Hmmm,

My recollection is that there were more than two planes around Normandy. And whilst Hitler ordered a fair few air units to Russia there were many left in the West.

One reason why the Luftwaffe wasn’t present in any great numbers was that the RAF/USAF had carpet bombed Naval bases and other important key targets such as railyards, the resistance had also aided them by attacking logistics and command and control functions.

The Luftwaffe sustained such losses that the commanders were unwilling to put them in the air, for anything other than a successful mission where they would have a good chance of coming back.

Way some of fresh ideas mst bwing.
I/m doubt that it was 2 planes but you definitely have the point. The participation of Lutwaffe in the East were very intensive and certainly they had no abilities to send it to the Normandy.

In the East there were a much more critical key objects for the GErmans.
For instance the oil fields in Ploeshty ( Romania) and Silesia industrial complex ( second large after Rur). The soviets in the end of 1944 were close to that.
. Losing those areas means for the Germansy inevitable lead for the losing of war . Therefore Hitler HAD NO ANY REASON to prefer the Western front to send the Luftwaffe.( i do not mean the new aircrafts that you right were sended moslty to the western front since mid 1944 but the all the Luftwaffe regiments).
In this prospect the German Naval bases that were needed for the sea war with Britain ( the sea war were already losed) were not so critical objects like the Germans industrial areas in the Eastern lands.
I’ve somwhere read that evan in the 1945 the most of Germans avialible wearpon ( tanks and aircrafts) were directed agains Red Army.

USSR would have won but even more lives would have spent. Remember the fact that USSR even after the victory over Hitler redeployed troops to the Far East and defeated the mighty Japapnese army in China? And what did the American do? They dropped atom bombs on the Japanese to make them surrender? So who really won? :wink:

I think it was more along the lines of a few hundred, maybe two hundred or so. But this pales in comparison to the thousands of what both the US and Britain had flying. They simply hid and waited for better times…

With regards to air superiority, the United States alone produced far more aircraft than Germany did in the years following America’s entry into the war. Even the British produced more aircraft than Germany did through 1943. German output of planes was not impressive.

No, on D-Day, there were 2: Josef Priller and his wingman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Luftwaffe_during_World_War_II#The_end_in_the_West_1944_-_45

The Wikki artical identifies only the two who overflew the beaches. There were apporoximatly 200 combat ready aircraft in range of Normandy (out of some 300 of all types and condition). Luftwaffe records show a little over 300 sorties were launched. These were mostly bomber attacks on the edges of the fleet on the Channel, and some on the inland advance of the Allies during the afternoon. Reconissance flights were also launched to find the size of the attack. Many of these sorties were aborted by allied fighter attacks. Its claimed the Allies launched over 14,000 sorties on 6 June. Even half that would have completely overwhelmed the Luftwaffe. Subsequently the Luftwaffe flew mostly night attacks to avoid Allied fighters.

another “what if”. what if russia had not attacked finland in 1939? many think fo russia as teh kings of winterwar, but the battle of suomassalmi, one of the biggest “david vs goliath” battles of all time, was an embarressment to russia, but also taught them valuable lessons about fighting in winter. 2 years, almost to the day, they used what they learned to start the counterattack in front of moscow.

suomassalmi resulted in the soviets sacking many generals who were sub-par at best, as well as taught them to train ski troops, to use different lubricants(many of their weapons froze in the minus 60 degree weather at suomassalmi, while the finns had no such troubles). it also taught them to speed up production of their new tanks, as they quickly learned that the old tanks they had were of very poor quality.

also, if no allies, what if Japan had joined by invading russia in 1942? i think it would have been a fairly quick(considering the size of russia) victory.

another possibility? what if the germans had used gas? they feared that the allies had tabun and sarin also, when in actuallity, not only did the allies have no clue, they had no defense against nerve gases. use of nerve gas could have been comparable to the atom bomb on japan, ending the war in days, even with the allies on russia’s side!