Do you think the USSR would've defeated Germany w/o allies?

[quote=“mavericck,post:136,topic:572”]

Sorry you are just talking rubbish, the B-36 was first flown in 1946 not designed in 1946 and thus was too early to make use of captured Nazi aerodynamic research. Furthermore, it was powered by piston internal combustion engines and the jets were added to a later version for more power. As for technology being “stolen” from Germany, no it was not “stolen”, the Third Reich signed a declaration of surrender and therefor the assets of the Reich became the property of the treaty parties. With regard to jet engine technology, the British were ahead of the Reich, and that is why the Soviet Union was anxious to acquire British jet engine technology post WW2 even though they had access to much of the former Third Reich’s jet resources. As for German aircraft intercepting the Convair, well that is if they could find it, the sky over Germany is a big place especially during the nightime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-36

With Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

Good point.
But you are forgetting the importain factor- USSR.
Even if Britan losed the war in 1940, the USA would have no other choice to switch all the lend-lise to the USSR.Becouse the USSR would be the ONLY serious. American ally in European continent.
Even if the Allies coalition lose the Britain - we have not good chance to win a war together.
Look , Britain absorbed about 63% of Lend-lise with relatively limited effectiviness.
Soviets got ONLY 25% and kicked out the 200+ of german divisions in the East.
I think if America supplied ONLY the Red army- it benefited more.

Whilst on the other hand, the USA was easily capable of defeating Japan without using nuclear weapons, If that makes the USA seem bloodthirsty in using nuclear weapons against Japan that is not my position, it was a legitimate morally correct decision to use nuclear weapons against Japan in that given Japanese determination to resist an invasion of Japan, more Japanese would have lost their lives if the Atomic weapons had not been used and a Normandy D Day type landing had been attempted on the Japanese home islands.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

i do agree too.
Indeed the USA have all mean to destroy the Japane without nuking( they actualy did it - after the Okinawa Japanes have no more military power to resist)
As i know ONLY about 25% of American military power has been directed agains Japane and rest 75% - against Germany.
Even those 25 % were more then enough to finish the Japane.

Do you realy think that Hitler was that much stupid to think that Japaneses can “kill” country SIX time bigger and powerfull that their;)
He supported the Japane with aim that Japane-American war would distract the American resourses out of supportion Britain.Hardly Hitler can leave the JApane alone.
He obviously thought that America inevitably will the single GErman enemy after the collapse of Britain and USSR.( as he planned) soon.

Hi Maverick, thanx for the video links, I can’t really see any significant difference between FDR’s position as portrayed in the Video and my own views on him, he was a skilled politician and holding on to public support for his policies was hugely important to him, like I said going to War was not his decision to make and frankly I do not believe that either FDR was as bloody minded nor was Churchill as naive and trusting of FDR as one might get the impression from in the video, the President is only one person and has to make judgements as best he can with such personal skills as he has and with the best advice he can get and with what information is available, all that said FDR really lost the plot with Stalin and was operating in some sort of fantasy World about what Stalin and the Soviet Union was about.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

the only problem with that is before Barbarossa, it is entirely possible that the USSR would have joined the Third Reich as a fighting member of the Axis more likely that she would not but far from the realms of fantasy that she would have, furthermore even if the USSR had not joined the Third Reich as a fighting member of the Axis, with Britain removed from the equation knowing the great respect which the Soviet Union showed for the sovereignity of other nation States, in the event of a much more heavily lend lease equipped Soviet Army, it is hardly the best result if because of that the USSR ends up in occupation of Europe all the way to the Atlantic coast of Portugal and Ireland.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

Um, Nazism and fascism were very much the antithesis of Stalinism/communism. Both ideologies were related by brutality and the blood trails of violent, despotic governments born of suffering and crisis. But they were very, very much rivals coming ideologically from a very different place. The thought of them coexisting is farcical at best . The idea that somehow they were conscious soul mates is pretty wrongheaded; there is little indication of anything but each side preparing for “a day of reckoning” with the other…

Everything you say is true, however it is the very lack of any sort of democratic accountability within the political systems of both Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia which would allow them to pull the most amazing ideological U-turns as for example the joint invasion of Poland by the Third Reich and the Soviet Union. Furthermore, it is somewhat besides the point in the context of the security of the USA that if the USSR and the Third Reich had become fully fledged allies and turned on the USA, that with a defeat of the USA, the Third Reich and USSR would sooner or later and probably sooner than later come in to conflict. Of course with 20/20 hindsight one can see because of Hitler’s ideological and racial hobbyhorses an alliance with the USSR against the USA was not a runner but that is with 20/20 hindsight and some sixty years of accumulated research in to these issues, after the fall of France in 1940 and the previous co-operation between the Third Reich and the USSR in the invasion of Poland, it would have looked as if there was a real possibility that the Third Reich and the USSR had entered in to an agreement to carve up the World between them and anybody 1940 in defense and planing that did not taken that in to account as one of a number of ways in which things could develop wasn’t doing their job properly. Furthermore Japan’s alliance with Germany is a concrete example of what I am talking about, in that on an ideological and cultural level it was completely without logic in that Japan was not powerful enough to deliver a knockout blow to the USA but through her Alliance with Germany she [ ie Japan ] had the possibility to weaken the US to the point that a Germany which had successfully overcome Russia could finish off the USA and Britain with Japanese help. Given the very inferior nature of Japanese technology and the small industrial base of Japan if Germany and Japan emerge as the two victorious powers of World War II, it then follows that Germany then turns on Japan for the purpose of exterminating the Japanese people in accordance with Nazi racial ideology.

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

I think very enough to read Hitler’s Main Kamf with his possessed idea of Lebenstraum on the East to deny the supposed Soviet-Nacis alliance at all.
Add to it the Hitler’s despised concept of “USSR that is ruled by the JEws”.
No one doubt in 1939-40 that the future Great war in East were INEVITABLE.

furthermore even if the USSR had not joined the Third Reich as a fighting member of the Axis, with Britain removed from the equation knowing the great respect which the Soviet Union showed for the sovereignity of other nation States,

Oh yea the UK/US pretty well demonstrated the respect to sovereignity of other nation in Asia.
They also started to restore the pre-war Colonian System right after the Japanes surrender.Ignoring or pursuting the National forces.

in the event of a much more heavily lend lease equipped Soviet Army, it is hardly the best result if because of that the USSR ends up in occupation of Europe all the way to the Atlantic coast of Portugal and Ireland.

This is true.
If the USSR got all the lend lise the Red Army could finish the war not in Berlin but in Madrid ( right after they would have liberated the Paris):slight_smile:

tRUE cHEVAN…but it would have cost them another 5 million uniforms just to get to the Rhine, and then another 10 million to reach Madrid…

Where would the Red Army be without an endless supply of fresh “fodder”?

The Talent of Russian generals at sending home their BRAVE and NOBLE peasant citizens in a box…

But really the surplus of “democratic accountability” of political system of USA has prevented them to invide anybody in 20 centure?
It seems for me you too simplify the situation to the Ideological rubbish.
Bot the USSR and Germany in 1939 had a own reason to eliminate Poland as possible enemy.
Soviet was amed to return back lands of Russian impire , cuptured by Poland in 1921.( so called Western Ukraine and Belorussia). In fact Poland was very hostile to Soviet Russia since 1920.
Hitler has also a long list of demands.
Stalin would be a fool if he has leaved to GErmans those lands.

Furthermore, … it would have looked as if there was a real possibility that the Third Reich and the USSR had entered in to an agreement to carve up the World between them and anybody 1940 in defense and planing that did not taken that in to account as one of a number of ways in which things could develop wasn’t doing their job properly.

By why the Stalin have to carve up the Western world to benefit his mortal ideological enemy Hitler?
Who just recently has executed or rounded up to Concentration camps the their own germans communist.
Beside you miss the other factor- the good American-Soviet pre-war relations.
The fact that always amaze me that since 1933( accurate when Soviet-German cooperation was decreased after Nacis have come to power) the Soviet-American relation was very productive and profitable.It was increasing , Ford even has built the factory in USSR.
You even might know that the Americans have passed the many military technologies and wearpon designs to the Soviets.teh famouse soviet T-34 was developed on basis of maerican design. The soviet own aircraft engines designs had also an american roots.
So IMO there is no poin to suggest the Soviet-Nacis military alliance in perspective, especialy after the Nacis low race theories , that they also pretty applyed to slavs.

Furthermore Japan’s alliance with Germany is a concrete example of what I am talking about, in that on an ideological and cultural level it was completely without logic in that Japan was not powerful enough to deliver a knockout blow to the USA but through her Alliance with Germany she [ ie Japan ] had the possibility to weaken the US to the point that a Germany which had successfully overcome Russia could finish off the USA and Britain with Japanese help. Given the very inferior nature of Japanese technology and the small industrial base of Japan if Germany and Japan emerge as the two victorious powers of World War II, it then follows that Germany then turns on Japan for the purpose of exterminating the Japanese people in accordance with Nazi racial ideology.

The other thing that amaze me all time. Actualy the Nazis-Japan alliance looks very strange from racial point:)
However the more strange for me was when in the 1943-44 there were allowed the Muslim and others “untermenshen” to the Waffen-SS :)As well as any sort of former criminals ( kinda sadly known Dirlivanger SS-brigade).
Indeed there is NOTHING strange in Nacis-Japane cooperation , despite of their “cultural and est” differences . There was a strong logic in military aspect.
It was anti-commintern pact ( initially German-Italy) that was in basis of Nacis-japane cooperation.

If Britain had fallen, the US military simply would have sent it’s divisions to the East alongside the Red Army. In fact, a combined US-USSR onslaught into Iran and the Middle East to secure oil was almost inevitable at that point…

And the US didn’t have any colonies in Asia after WWII…The US hardly had actual colonies at all…

one reason that the soviets won the battle for russia was becuse it became winter and the germans all froze to death. mother earth saved the mother land

Not just in Iran. I’m sure , having the whole lend lise , USSR might reliase additionaly 1,5 - 2 mln soldiers from industry.Those troops could be effectively used agains Japane in Far East.
SO USSR might declare the War on Japane already in 1942-43 to prevent then isolate USA from oil and resourses of Asia.

And the US didn’t have any colonies in Asia after WWII…The US hardly had actual colonies at all…

Oh i forget the USA prefered to to install the pro-american dictatorsips just like Stalin did in Eastern Europe.:slight_smile:
Kinda F.Marcos in Phillipines.Or S. Rhee in Korea.

It wasn’t just the russian Winter , but also and russia mouses who has eated all the electrical wires of GErmans panzers in december of 1942 in Stalingrad:)
Even the russia mosquitos attacked the poor Germans in summer with especial fury.( seriously ,Mainstain wrote about it in his memours):slight_smile:
Now you see how danger to invide Russia:)

It could be worse - they could have invaded Australia!

BTW, this sounds like an excuse for a bad photoshop competition, along the lines of my NKVD mouse. What is your best “Soviet wildlife” photoshop?

Yes comride , Australian flys can treat to deat any army, even the Australian:)

BTW, this sounds like an excuse for a bad photoshop competition, along the lines of my NKVD mouse. What is your best “Soviet wildlife” photoshop?

You have win the Photoshop competition. I wasn’t able to photoshop nothing more serious except photo of defective SS Panzerknacker, that is probably my best “Soviet wildlife” photoshop work:)

Yes! The infamous killer Koalas… Those vicious beasts are deadly as hell.
Granted they are not that speedy… if they do get grip of you they shred you into peaces…

I thought about Koalas too mate.
But Japanes as Asian can eat almost everything that move on/under the ground( including the bugs):slight_smile:
I/m sure they would be just Glad to get few fresh Koala’s meat for dinner:)
The Australian flys would be the perfect UBER-WEARPON against inviders.

Yeah, the invader gets nibbled to death by the wildlife. :smiley:

Don’t know why you bother having an army. :smiley:

Never heard of Drop Bears? Seriously, Koalas appear to be about the only wildlife in Australia that isn’t either poisonous, carnivorous or both. Even the Kangaroos are armed and dangerous.

The reuse of some object-oriented code has caused tactical headaches for Australia’s armed forces. As virtual reality simulators assume larger roles in helicopter combat training , programmers have gone to great lengths to increase the realism of the their scenarios, including detailed landscapes and - the case of the Northern Territory’s Operation Phoenix - herds of kangaroos (since groups of disturbed animals might well give away a helicopters position).
The head of the Defense Science and Technology Organization’s Land Operations/Simulations division reportedly instructed developers to model the local marsupials’ movements and reaction to helicopters.
Being efficient programmers, they just re-appropriated some code originally used to model infantry detachments reactions under the same stimuli, changed the mapped icon from a soldier to a kangaroo, and increased the figures’ speed of movement.
Eager to demonstrate their flying skills for some visiting American pilots, the hotshot Aussies “buzzed” the virtual kangaroos in low flight during a simulation. The kangaroos scattered, as predicted, and the Americans nodded appreciatively… and then did a double-take as the kangaroos reappeared from behind a hill and launched a barrage of stinger missiles at the hapless helicopter. (Apparently the programmers had forgotten the remove “that” part of the infantry coding).
The lesson? Objects are defined with certain attributes, and any new object defined in terms of the old one inherits all the attributes. The embarrassed programmers had learned to be careful when reusing object-oriented code, and the Yanks left with the utmost respect for the Australian wildlife.
Simulator supervisors report that pilots from that point onwards have strictly avoided kangaroos, just as they were meant to.

http://www.snopes.com/humor/nonsense/kangaroo.asp