ive nothing against good editing..its the salt good movies are made of… but re-enacting is something totally differend don`t you think?
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=LqH_WEqNK5Y
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=vPlCodPcqZ8
So This film was all reenacted?? Damn, learn something new everyday
edited to add another video
Your right…I think I found the film footage you are talking about…
as you allready said … it`s the editing … if you did know the original raw footage you would know that 3 of the crew actually made it out of that phanter not only one 
…
The first video shows at least 80% of footage that has nothing to do with the event that the storry covers
the second video is even worst … it`s edited that way that it looks like that the tank comander get killed by the second shot … but on the other hand you can see clearly the two other crew men (driver and co-driver) running for cover :mrgreen:
The original raw footage shows that after the tank get hit the first time the comander jumps down the tank running for cover then the driver jumps out and then the co-driver, the last two under heavy mashingun fire and third anti tank round sets the tank on fire …
Fake…Reenacted combat scenes is a whole lot different than edited combat scenes. Are you saying 90% is FAKE / Acted for the camera OR 90% is real footage edited? Edited combat action is still real combat action.
I think you might be referring to John Ford’s propaganda masterstroke of “Why We Fight.” I recall the very brave editorial stance was taken to include footage of actual soldiers killed in combat being sewn up into shrouds…
Well, i was referring to re-enacted footage made during the time of world war two
But watching the two samples you have posted makes me think…
editing real combat footage the way it was done there is simply beyond me.
Editing already real intense combat footage like this, for the sake of getting more gore out of it and lie to the poeple who are watching this, is pervert
if you think what can be done with editing by using the technique we have on hand today, i think you`r better off with the “boring” raw footage …
I don’t know of any film of it, but I don’t think there’s much doubt that it happened. I have read (IIRC, from the actual pilots involved) that late in the war, when there wasn’t much Luftwaffe opposition, P-51 escort fighter pilots were told to use up their ammo by shooting up ground targets on the way home - and they basically shot at anything that moved. From a plane closing at 400mph they would have had little idea of exactly what they were shooting at, of course; I doubt very much that any of them would have deliberately targeted women and children. But a vehicle could have held anybody.
This is what I was responding to Tony…I’m not saying there were never any women or children killed by pilots ground strafing, like you said hard to tell what your shooting at going that fast…I’m just questioning the way Kotic is trying to portray the U.S. fighter pilot of WWII…What do you think of the above post?
That’s a tough call. Obviously, if it did happen it’s not the kind of thing that people would want to brag about after the war (and I don’t suppose camera gun footage would be likely to survive either). I do have a connection with some people who lived in Dresden during the bombing and they say that what angered the people most was not the bombing (they kind of expected that) but being shot up by US fighters when they were trying to escape the city. But they weren’t eye witnesses to that and, of course, all sorts of rumours get spread in those circumstances.
You also have to bear in mind that war has a brutalising effect on those taking part (just think about some of the things that Coalition troops have been found guilty of in Iraq) and after several years of total war I don’t suppose many pilots cared too much about what happened to German civilians.
So I suppose what it comes down to is individual personalities. I would expect that most pilots would not deliberately fire on women and children. But all you need is an Abu Ghraib type of personality in the cockpit…
There is a simple reason why most footage is re-enacted: it is very difficult to get good “combat” footage in actual combat without the camera crew getting shot.
I’m sorry, am I supposed to have a problem with this?
I’m not so sure about that, at least at the section or platoon level.
There’s plenty of pieces of what are essentially fragmentary episodes around, captured by cameramen who were there.
Neil Davis, an Australian cameraman who did some great work in Vietnam is one example I know of who was up at the sharp end and got some interesting footage, and died getting his last frame (a particularly haunting piece of film but it seems the internet doesn’t have it), but there must be many others. http://www.awm.gov.au/people/2684.asp http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=tAXSSq6sxxg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAXSSq6sxxg
Just as an aside, you mightn’t be able to pick up what the Asian soldiers have in their mouths. They’re Buddhas, worn around their necks and put into their mouths in action in the belief they’ll go straight to their heaven.
Davis tried to understand what was going on, as he does here about the famous film of the police chief shooting the the VC in the head http://video.aol.com/video-detail/frontline-1979-clip-3-too-many-pictures/3330018733
Davis took the memorable film of the tanks ramming their way into the Presidential Palace, which symbolised the end of the Vietnam war.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/a-newsman-in-the-wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time/2005/09/11/1126377206273.html
The bigger war scenes, where there is cohesion and minutes of film, are the ones that I suspect.
He could make this because he wasnt an embedded journalist... its almost impossible to take footage like that in todays conflict
because that kind of footage had such an great impact at the folks back home the military “invented” the embedded journalism … short for “you only show what we want you to show the folks back home”
to give you an idea what this means i`ll show you some edited and some raw footage of re-enacted combat scenes made for this kind of “journalists” AFTER operation spear june 18 2005
but first here`s some footage made during the real operation spear between 11-13 june 2005
i call it BIG BOYS WITH TOYS having fun:mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHIBZKo-z8U
Very cool…and edited too.
yep, pretty cool … but i doubt that there was any danger at any time to the guy operating the camera … the only danger for him was get hit by friendly fire
but thats ok.. i dont have to pay for that, so let`em have their fun
one week after this footage was taken 3 tv camera teams arrived in karabilah … the town was completly cleared at that time and some of the civiliens already did come back to look for their homes
anyway, the comanding officer decided to put up a show for the cameras
How can you be so sure - did you take it yourself? There wasn’t a single incoming round in the entire clip, nor was there any sign or any enemy activity in any form. Also, the troops shown were as my DS so kindly describe it “monging it” - hanging around in the open, and when they move doing so with no urgency. The armoured vehicle crewmen shown are practically hanging out of their hatches sightseeing.
This video is most likely of some form of training exercise, which may or may not be in Iraq. There is NO sign of an ongoing battle.
you are right, basicaly all you can see are american troops destroying large quantitys of private property…
Unfortunately thats the way american troops do enter a city .. by using their imence firepower.. regardless if there is or there is no enmy fire :roll: thats one of the reason why most coalition forces reject to take part in such operation
MAIN OPJETIVE OF OPERATION SPEAR:
Provide proof of foreign fighters, mainly Syrian, passing through the borders between Iraq and Syria.
here are the first 3 EDITED versions of the CNN News report on operation spear in Karabillah from june/18/2005
8 days after “battle” started …
http://208.75.230.43/kotic/cnn1.swf
the second version
http://208.75.230.43/kotic/1.swf
and here`s the thrid …
http://208.75.230.43/kotic/cnn3.swf
I’m just amazed that so many WWII combat cameramen died filming fake/reenactment events, but thats okay too because you didnt have to pay for that either…