Hard Facts about Communism/USSR.

Not every Soviet citizen went to university.

It was still based on ability, wasn’t it?

We had a totally free education system here, including university, for about 15 years from the early seventies until the late eighties. It was introduced by a nominally socialist (Labor Party) government and ended by another one, nominally of the same brand but much less socialist. Before that, the conservative government opened up a lot of opportunities for people to get into university on merit based scholarships. Which, frankly, was a better system, because you had to prove your ability before you got the university place rather than believing you were entitled to it as a birthright, no matter how dumb you were. (Maybe I’m biased, because I got in on a scholarship on the merit based system, as did my father in a much harder time when there were very few scholarships.)

The reason we moved to part payment by students in the late eighties was because the universities expanded to accommodate all the students kept in secondary school by the nominally socialist government to keep the unemployment figures down, because the governmet was busy buggering the economy so that unskilled and semi-skilled jobs were being exported to cheap labour countries and early school leavers didn’t have any jobs to go.

The cost of running the universities to fiddle with the employment rates became an increasingly heavy burden on the national budget so students had to pay for government stupidity in creating the belief that any idiot could get into university, and allowing it to happen.

The end result is that you now need a university degree for a lot of basic clerical type jobs that you would have got thirty years ago with four or five years of secondary education. So you start work about four or five years later, during which time you’re not only unproductive but a drain on the community through living allowance schemes.

And the system has been dumbed down to accommodate people who shouldn’t be in universities, not to mention full fee paying students who can buy a degree if they have enough money and a modicum of academic ability, which wasn’t shown in their pre-university marks otherwise they would have got a government funded place with a much lower student contribution.

That’s basically what happened in Britain as well.

Either you keep university exclusive on the basis of academic achievement and fully fund it, recognising that the people that pass through university will benefit the economy enormously by the increased taxes they will pay (paying for their education many times over) and the contributions they will make to economic growth through applying their education; or you make it one great free-for-all fuster cluck of non-degrees required to get the most menial of clerical jobs and have students pay for it either upfront or through loans/deferred payment.

Unfortunately, they have chosen the latter route.

My ideal model is:

20% of the school leaving population gets fully funded places, grants, and so on based exclusively on merit. No means testing, no discriminating in favour of the Labour voting demographic: purely on merit.And these are for proper, “hard” subjects, not textile design or underwater basket weaving.
anyone else who wants to go is free to do so, but pays for it (either upfront or loans or deferred, or whatever. I don’t want to argue the details, because frankly university is not for this demographic and they should have done something more practical. If you consider yourself a “late Bloomer” academically, and 18 or 19 is pretty damn late, then you can consider whether it is worth the investment that you will have to make personally to get that degree).

" celebrity studies" at Luton University on grades of two E’s is a waste of everybody’s time, effort, and money, and R. S. is quite right to point out that it is done to keep young people off the unemployment figures as long as possible.

What’s your point?

That governments should give value for money?

Think what would happen to the economy if all those little public service piglets were suddenly shaken off the gorged public tit.

It’d be a nightmare, all those useless, unemployable people wandering the streets, causing trouble.

I mean, what would happen if soldiers, real working soldiers, were given control of equipment standards?

They wouldn’t get the great service they do now from the competent and dedicated public servants and public servant type military officials, as revealed by these testimonials.

There’s a degree of journalistic sensationalism in these articles, but the grunts’ complaints they record have been a theme for many years.

(Check the bold red in the first item. Code for: Or they don’t get back into Oz.)

Faulty gear puts troops at riskCameron Stewart and Michael McKinnon
The Australian February 11, 2006

THE safety of Australian troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, including the elite SAS force, has been compromised by defective body armour, combat jackets and helmets, according to damning Defence Department documents.

The faults include combat jackets that glow in the dark, giving enemies an easy target, and body armour that cracks easily.

The helmets issued to soldiers have harnesses that are “worn, rusted and damaged” and are shaped in a way that makes it “impossible to sight a live claymore (landmine) in the prone position” while wearing them.

The documents reveal that the safety of SAS members – on deployment in Iraq and Afghanistan – has been compromised by body armour that does not match the grey colour of their wetsuits for underwater operations.

In one case, a protective vest called Ultima issued to soldiers was so faulty its use was “suspended immediately” for troops at home. But those in the field were forced to wear the vest until a replacement became available.

“The operational use of the armour is to be suspended as soon as practicable,” the reports say.

The Defence documents were obtained by The Weekend Australian under Freedom of Information laws following a successful challenge in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.

They contain a comprehensive log of defects, reported by troops at home and overseas, in combat armour, combat jackets, helmets, combat packs and boots.

The reports reveal that faulty equipment is a more serious and widespread problem than has been admitted by the Government, at times jeopardising the operations and safety of troops.

A Defence spokesman yesterday defended the performance of the Defence Materiel Organisation, the agency that buys combat gear, saying it had followed “strict government procurement guidelines”.

“Army is committed to continual development and improvement of combat clothing and personal equipment,” he said.

The documents warn that the new combat jackets issued to troops not only failed to offer camouflage protection but were “highly visible”. “It appears as a bright glowing beacon when observed through night-fighting equipment,” the reports say.

They reveal that no combat jackets fit women. “Females are forced to wear a jacket several sizes too big to accommodate hips. This leads to sleeves completely covering hands.”

The jackets were highly flammable and collected such an amount of “dirt, sticks and prickles” in the field that they would be “unsuitable for operations overseas, due to the likelihood of AQIS (Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service) requiring complete removal of all plant matter”.

The documents say the combat body armour used by troops in Iraq was faulty, with the plastic clips used to fasten the vest to the torso “continually fracturing and breaking”. And the ballistic body plates designed to stop small arms fire were subject to cracking at the front and the back.

The reports warn that the helmets used by the SAS were poorly designed because, during night assaults with aerial fire, soldiers were forced to use tape to attach strobe lights to the helmets to aid target identification.

“This affects operational performance and safety,” they say.

Soldiers on home duties complained that the older army helmets were “severely dented” and trapped the heat, potentially causing overheating.

There were serious problems with field combat packs, blamed for “causing multiple back injuries” and for being too small for operations in East Timor.

Soldiers reported that poorly designed combat boots led to large blisters, with one soldier saying: “It takes a good deal ofmy blood to soak into the leather to make them more comfortable.”

Opposition defence spokesman Robert McClelland said last night the Government must explain why troops were so ill-equipped.

“The Howard Government’s defence spending priorities have become outrageously skewed when they are willing to have a billion-dollar open chequebook for Iraq while our dedicated serving men and women are equipped with badly designed clothing and faulty gear.”

Enemy is in Canberra, say Diggers
Michael McKinnon and Cameron Stewart
The Australian February 13, 2006

BLOOD-filled boots and sodden jackets infested with maggots force thousands of Australian soldiers a year to buy their own military equipment.

Some soldiers with combat experience in Afghanistan and Iraq say an enemy exists in the Defence Department’s Russell Office in Canberra – the bureaucrats who buy the flawed and faulty equipment.

Military equipment supplier Crossfire, based at Braidwood, near Canberra, meets some of the demand from soldiers who say they are “disgusted and demoralised” by poor equipment issued by the Defence Department.

Speaking from a military show in Las Vegas, Crossfire manager Peter Marshall said his company was a big contractor to the Defence Department, with “substantial sales directly to units and to individual soldiers”.

“I have spoken to thousands of soldiers who all say they cannot operate at full efficiency because of poor equipment. This failure places their lives at risk,” he said.

"There are major problems with retention, and I know soldiers who have reluctantly left the army because they are fed up with a system that doesn’t value them as soldiers.

“A soldier’s kit – the backpack, boots, helmets and other equipment – is their workplace.”

Mr Marshall said the problem was not with the whole department but with its combat clothing office, which had failed to seek private-sector advice, produced flawed designs and run inappropriate tendering processes.

A senior army officer, with experience in the area, called yesterday for the combat clothing office to be scrapped.

The officer, who wished to remain anonymous, said some soldiers believed bureaucrats were as much an enemy as insurgents in Iraq.

“The Defence Department’s combat clothing area designs equipment in-house. We don’t do that with fighter planes – instead we check and compare the best private industry has to offer,” the officer said.

"Soldiers get the equipment, put it in the cupboard and buy their own.

“We cannot believe the generals and the Defence Minister would allow this to continue if they really knew the truth.”

Billions lost in Defence black hole
Katharine Murphy, Canberra
The Australian December 27, 2006

DAYS after the Defence Department launched an inquiry into fears that criminals have gained access to army shoulder-fired rocket launchers, the Auditor-General has found it cannot adequately account for inventory and “repairable items” worth $3.9 billion.

An annual investigation of government agencies by the Australian National Audit Office concludes that Defence has breached federal financial management controls.

The Auditor-General, Ian McPhee, also criticised the $8.7 billion Defence Materiel Organisation, the body responsible for managing defence equipment.

The audit office found the DMO had opened and operated foreign bank accounts without official approval and had “inadvertently” allowed one such account to go into the red.

The DMO had also “artificially fixed” the exchange rate when buying equipment for Australian troops overseas, a practice that caused the value of projects to be “misstated”.

The value of one such project, the Australian light armoured vehicle capability, was overstated by $23 million.

The project was subsequently transferred from the DMO back to the Defence Department. The practice has since ceased.

The ongoing problems with Defence accounts follow two recent controversies involving the possible theft of specialist military equipment.

Defence Minister Brendan Nelson last week called in ASIO and the secretive Defence Security Authority to carry out a security audit, after concerns that criminals may have gained access to shoulder-fired 66-millimetre rocket launchers from army stores.

The audit office’s conclusions on defence accounts are contained in its yearly review of the financial statements of government businesses and agencies, which was released just before Christmas.

The auditor says Defence has made some important improvements in its record-keeping and accountability during the past year.

But the audit office warns that despite recent improvement, which has seen Defence accounts cleared as “true and fair” apart from the inventories of general and repairable items, there is still much that should be done.

“Notwithstanding the significant reduction in uncertainty over some Defence balances in 2005-06, there remains significant uncertainty in relation to the two material line items within the Defence financial statements,” it says.

The audit office says Defence will need to maintain its current commitment to improving accountability in order to secure a clean bill of health.

Looks like the colony is doing it just about as well as the mother country then…

Interesting factoid: it costs roughly the same to send a child to a state school as it does to send a child to a middle-of-the-road private day school in Britain. The results, however, are striking: the private school will have significantly better facilities, better discipline, better teaching, and better results. Why? Because of the approximately 7000 pounds a year per child, the private school sees all of it, whereas the local education authority siphons a whole lot of that off into its unnecessary bureaucracy.

You have a sort of voucher system in Australia, don’t you? Whereby a portion of the money that would have been spent from the public coffers on a state school for your child can be paid to a private school instead? Sweden, of all places, operates such a system, and I can see no downside to it.

And, Ta Da!, what’s missing from the whole picture?

Technical education.

Went to buggery in the seventies and since, because it was class discirimination to consign kids to technical schools when everybody is equal and shouldn’t be denied university education.

Got thrown out with well-meaning (Was it Oscar Wilde? Sam Johnson? who said something like “He said the worst you can say of any man. He meant well.”?) egalitarian ideas, that everybody is equal.

Wrong. Everybody is born nominally equal. And entitled to equal consideration and rights, nominally. Everybody is not capable of equal achievement.

So we saw technical colleges that awarded certificates and diplomas boost themselve into colleges of advanced education that awarded diplomas and degrees and then into universities which awarded degrees, in such academically challenging subjects as Gendering Communication which, hardly surprsingly, has no prerequisites (apart, probably, from being a fat arse sheila in overalls who lets her hair grow wild everywhere except on her close cropped head - it makes sense to them).

Prerequisite(s) Nil.

Content This unit of study will enable students to engage with some of the gendered and engendering relations of communication by addressing the central question: How do different forms of communication reproduce and/or create different ideas of being male and female? There will be an ongoing emphasis on the intersections of gender with intercultural differences. The unit is organised around four broad themes: interpersonal, workplace, development, and media communication.
http://wcf.vu.edu.au/Handbook/index.cfm?ViewAZSubjectsList=ViewAZSubjectsList&HandBookID=7&Level1ID=13&Level2ID=63&Level3ID=324&CFID=823705&CFTOKEN=18280538

Yep. That looks like just the sort of subject that’d be full of the intellectual rigorous assessment of empirical evidence and careful research that modern universities exist to teach. What’s more, at item 54 in the link, it comes up as postgraduate! I’d love to see the prequisites for an undergraduate version. Passed kindergarten drawing in crayons and butcher’s paper?

And just to show what a pedantic prick I can be, and how useless those so-called academics are, ‘engendering’ makes no sense in that quote. ‘Engage with … engendering relations of communication’ WTF does that mean? And WTF does the rest of that subject description mean?

Sweet FA.

Like so much of the bullshit that passes nowadays for university education.

Meanwhile the technical institutes still turn out carpenters who can build houses and plumbers who can plumb houses, and so on. And the technical institutes get bugger all money from our government or industry, which are forever bemoaning the lack of skilled tradesmen, because it suits both to avoid the cost of training and bring them in from China etc through slavelords who rent them out to industry at huge rates while they’re living ten to a room in some shitty house.

So the government moans about the technical skills shortage while doing nothing to alleviate it with local skills, while pouring money into engendering communications that are beyond comprehension.

If any of it makes sense, please explain.

I’m having a random flick through the course offerings at British universities, and some of them are just ridiculous:

Architectural glass,3 years BA
stained-glass restoration and conversation,3 years BA
green space management,3 years MSC
Pop music performance,3 years BMus
of course gender studies,3 years BA

and that was just the ones that jumped out at me under “G.”

Have a browse of this: http://search.ucas.co.uk/cgi-bin/hsrun/search/search/StateId/Rp1x8GEd_HQF3HZ0tViLYxU-RXrFq-4LJm/HAHTpage/search.HsKeywordSearch.run?letter=A

I hope not, or Britain is rooted.

Interesting factoid: it costs roughly the same to send a child to a state school as it does to send a child to a middle-of-the-road private day school in Britain. The results, however, are striking: the private school will have significantly better facilities, better discipline, better teaching, and better results. Why? Because of the approximately 7000 pounds a year per child, the private school sees all of it, whereas the local education authority siphons a whole lot of that off into its unnecessary bureaucracy.

I think it has a lot more to do with the sort of parents who send their kids to schools like that.

Don’t know what you call them up there, but we call them bogans. Archetype is a dole bludging no-hoper with flannel check shirt and stretch jeans, never had a job, left school about year 8 or 9, lives in parents’ publicly funded house and aims for own, heard of contraception but couldn’t be bothered with it, fucks everything it can, and breeds indiscriminately from the age of thirteen onwards. And that’s only the women, because it seems like a good deal to be paid for it when they never got paid for nuthin before wen dey was doin nuthin at skule, dude.

Exceptions are, and there are many, those who are born into that and do the common parent thing of wanting their children to have what they didn’t, and to do better than them.

You can get government schools in crappy areas who get a group of parents like that running it and they do wonders, with the help of some great teachers. Here’s a school that tries to avoid young mothers turning into no-hopers http://www.abc.net.au/plumpton/stories/s791244.htm

My experience as a parent who’s funded a couple of private schools is that, like government schools, it depends upon the school, and even the teachers a kid gets in a school. Crap schools have good years in lucky succession, and vice versa. My house would be in much better condition if I hadn’t wasted a lot of my money on a private school for my son, staffed largely by refugees from the public system who couldn’t handle anything that didn’t salute a flagpole or any other symbol of authority. I never understood why they thought it was time to bring the parents in if the kid wasn’t doing his homework but we didn’t think we had to bring the teachers in about issues at home. Why is it the parents’ problem if Johnny isn’t doing the homework the teachers want him to do at home but it’s not the teachers’ problem if Johnny isn’t eating what his parents want him to eat at school? Our parent interview in the naughty room was, in every instance, an admission of failure by the teachers, but they tried to put it onto the parents. Not impressed.

You have a sort of voucher system in Australia, don’t you? Whereby a portion of the money that would have been spent from the public coffers on a state school for your child can be paid to a private school instead? Sweden, of all places, operates such a system, and I can see no downside to it.

Not in my state, nor I think in other states. We have a system of federal government grants to private and government schools in each state, but there’s a lot of debate about whether the allocation is fair. Here’s one summary http://www.theage.com.au/news/education-news/to-fee-or-be-free-that-is-the-question/2007/02/09/1170524304560.html
Personally, it amazes me how private schools are always crying poor but buying up everything in their area at huge prices. No doubt funded by the endless building funds to which their pupils’ parents are expected to contribute, more or less at gunpoint in some cases, on top of fees that’d bankrupt most people.

The voucher system has been proposed regularly, but its only proponents are those who want to get direct personal funding to use to defray private school fees. Here’s a conservative’s view of it. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,22771407-7583,00.html?from=public_rss

When my kids are of homework age, and don’t want to do their homework, I will make it my problem to get them to do it purely because I want what’s best for them. This is thinking ahead somewhat, since the first one is due in a couple of weeks… screaming thing here we come!

Education doesn’t stop at the school gate, and parents have a duty to encourage children to make use of the educational facilities made available to them, and that includes homework.

First one… he-he-he… You are about to be surprised, my frined!
I have been blessed three times already.

Try this.

Bachelor of Arts
(Outdoor Education)
The course prepares students for
teaching and leading in fields relevant to
outdoor education including adventure
guiding and environmental education.
Students participate in 140 days of
outdoor field work during the course.
Core fieldwork units include:
Bushwalking
Paddling
Rock climbing
Naturalist studies
The theoretical aspects of
the program include:
Environmental science studies
Outdoor education concepts drawn from psychology, education,
eco-psychology, environmental
ethics and eco-philosophy.
Careers in Outdoor Education
Teaching in school based programs
Outdoor or environmental education
centres such as the Bogong Outdoor
Education Centre. (Currently 8
of 11 employees are La Trobe
Outdoor Education graduates).
Freelance outdoor instructors

http://www.latrobe.edu.au/education/downloads/brochures/BAOutEd(Bgo)2007.pdf

eco-psychology? WTF is that? When you can hear the trees talking to you, in a leafy call for help? Or vice versa?

environmental ethics? Please dispose of your rubbish thoughtfully? Bears shouldn’t shit in the woods?

eco-philosophy? Yes. Wittgenstein was big on this, as was Hegel, but Aristotle wasn’t the full bottle.

Oh, yes.

I have been blessed three times already.

When they hit their teens, it seems less like blessed and more like cursed. :smiley:

Why is homework best for them?

Why do schools run from nine to three or so, and then send kids home to do two hours homework when the rest of us work nine to five?

And expect parents to supervise homework after we’ve worked nine to five, often a lot more, and the teachers haven’t?

What other supposedly professional body requires untrained people to supervise the work that professionals do? Have you ever heard of a radiologist sending patients home to do their own X rays, or a teacher getting an illiterate moron (apart from another teacher) to correct students’ work?

Where is the evidence that doing homework helps kids’ education?

Name ten teachers you know who love setting and correcting homework.

As for the “It’s training for work, because when you’re working for a living you’ll have to do after hours work” argument, show how any of these people do their normal primary work at home, after they’ve finished for the day:

Restaurant waiter

Biscuit cutter on production line

Airline pilot

Public service payroll clerk

Motorbike courier

Bricklayer

Train driver

This comes from one of the large band of parents who’ve learnt that 90% of household conflict comes from trying to get your kids to do homework that nobody in the house gives a shit about, and that doesn’t matter in the end even to the teachers.

Many good questions, however you are talking to someone who did his homework at school…

The point of homework is reinforcing, and committing to long-term memory, things learned during school hours. I certainly found it useful, particularly as it freed up lesson time for proper teaching rather than doing exercises.

If it was genuinely a waste of time, and proven to be so, it wouldn’t be set, would it?

Conning Greenpeace types into giving you lots of extra money!

Pretty much, I suspect. These things are occasionally useful to give you a template by which you can assess new ideas and work your way through the marketing bull****. If you understand the conceptual framework upon which all the various regulations are based, you will be able to adapt to new ones more easily.

I didn’t, and it freed up a lot more of my valuable time. :smiley:

Yes, it would. The problem isn’t that it’s proven to be a waste of time but, like so much in education, there’s nothing to prove that it’s worthwhile, apart from custom and belief.

Kohn takes many of the things we assume about homework and shreds them, showing over and over how little research there is to back up all the accepted theories. . . . [He] chip[s] away at the conventional thinking that homework improves achievement, that homework improves grades, that homework builds character and all the other things we’ve heard about it since we were doing it . . . Worse, [it] may have the adverse effect of dulling a child’s interest in learning altogether.
http://www.alfiekohn.org/books/hm.htm

Oh common.
I hope you will not deny the fact that the capitalists were forced to give the additional concessions for western workers and trade-unions.
And do not forget that after the collaps of the USSR the comon world tend is that THEY DO NOT want to do it any more.:slight_smile:
As the resault: the Richest goes more rich , the poorest- more poor.
Is it not so -do you want to say?

How is it in any way moral that somebody else has a right to more of my money than I do? a “happy welfare state”? where people who don’t want to work don’t have to, and those that work have to pay for them? where billions of pounds are poured into a bottomless health care system which is significantly worse than the insurance based schemes in nearby countries? and for education, have you seen the ridiculous things you can study at university these days? So no, you have no GUARANTEE of either a good education or a good medical service.

As for your idea of saving money, let’s do some simple maths:

Let’s say the usual family earned €60.000 gross. 60% of this is 36.000.
Let’s also say that university fees are 20.000 per year. Three children is unrealistic, let’s make it two (it’s more likely 1.4). Each child studies for three years, so that is 120.000 in total. This equates to 3.3 years worth of taxes, yet they will be paying these taxes over their whole working life, and on their pension.

Let’s put this another way. A family earns 60.000, and pays 60% tax. This means that they are paying 3000 per month in tax (that’s just income-tax, not including sales tax which is 25% in Denmark). This also means that, is both members of the working couple earn the same,1 of them is working solely to pay tax. What’s on this earth justifies such an “average” family paying €3000 a month of their income into a bottomless pit? What are they get in return?

Really simple mathematic:)
I do not know where the 60% of tax come from
But i offer you the other way of math.
More simple:)
Lest consider as the constant the 20 000 the coast of GOOD hight education per year. i.e about 100 000 for 5 years in SUM.
And the same figure 20 000 - the average earned pay for the every WORKING man.
Lets calculate what summ the any one need to get the hight education for ONE of ther child.
As we know the avarage time of active working life is roughtly 40 years, right ( since 20 untill 60).
During his life his earned about 20 000* 40 years = 800 000, right.
So he need to pay about 1/8 part of his total profit for the getting the HIGHT EDUCATION for one of his child.
I.e. the ONE average family needs about 12,5% of his total income to cover the pay for hight education for TWO of thier children.
But as you said the average family HAS 1.4 child, besides NOT ALL OF THEM wish to get the hight education - right?I think if 30% of them wish - this is very good, but OK lets 50% of them dream about hight education for their children.
So you need :
1.4 (usial children per family) /(2 children per family that we considered) * 50% (who want the high education) * 12.5 %( tax per family that have 2 childrens as we have counted) = 4,3%
So if you pay the ADDITIONAL 5% OF TAX to the tax that you usially pay for the state - this is a real cost for the GUARANTED HIGHT EDUCATION FOR EVERYBODY WHO WANT IT
Is it enough simple math for you?
and …
Does it too many for he guaranty that ALL of YOUR children will get the GOOD EDUCATION?

Let’s look further: over their working lives they will pay 1.26 million in tax. In return, they will get 120.000 in university education for their kids, say 420.000 in health care (based on a family insurance policy costing €1000 a month which is probably 3 times too high than in reality), say approximately 130.000 in school education for their kids. This leaves 590.000 to pay for occasional road maintenance not covered by Council tax, defence, police, chavs and politicians. If we take a more realistic value of a health insurance policy, we are left with 870.000. this latter figure equates to about 25.000 per year, or 70% of the tax paid. So you are getting “value” for something around 30% of that 60% tax that you pay, the rest goes into the big bottomless money pit.

bottomless money pit?
it seems you even did not guess about whole problem with it?
the GUARANTED free education could solve the principle problem of the west - to INCREACE ITS OWN POPULATION and improve the demography of society.
Coz instead of 1.4 children per family ( due to the expensive education) the awerage western family coud “produce” the 2-3 if they WILL SURE about GUARANTY of FREE good education and medical service.
So instead of the million of cheap half-criminal emigrants ready for any work that the capitalist so like to use - you could reach the increace of own population that will enough educated and could succesfully fight for their rights and finaly beat the capitalist:)
So this is rather a DEMAGOGY and propoganda to say that the FREE education is VERY EXPENSIVE for the state- coz the ELITE do not need the additional competition that could threat for ther ass.
In practice in many cases the spoilt children of Superichest who has anything in ther life that they could even dreamed - goes to the prestige departments( like the finantial, juridical and foreign affairs) of Garward, Yel and Oxfords to make a fool coz they even do not need to study something;)
From other hans a lot of people who lost their health working hard during all of their life - in dream that their children will live a bit better than they.

Doesn’t look like good value to me…

Well if the nation healt, education and demography is not a good value for you:)
I could understand the capitalist- they need a money.So they prefer better the crowd of cheap emigrants, or to invest the money abroad in Asia and China.
Are you one of them?:wink:
P.S. and something more about bottomless money pit?
Do you accidentally know how many billion of dollars have stealed the sadly know company Halliberton from the American Armyes budget in Iraq?
And this is in the state - that “counts any cent”.
Does this money pit worry you so much as the cost of equal social right?

OK maybe it was heppend not here mate.
But in rest of the western world the social-democratic movenment fight for the working class guaranties enough succesfull, was it not?
And capitalist was forced to direct the part of thier super-profits to improve the conditions and guaranties for workers.

Posted by Chevan

it seems you even did not guess about whole problem with it?
the GUARANTED free education could solve the principle problem of the west - to INCREACE ITS OWN POPULATION and improve the demography of society.
Coz instead of 1.4 children per family ( due to the expensive education) the awerage western family coud “produce” the 2-3 if they WILL SURE about GUARANTY of FREE good education and medical service.

The majority of Western countries guarantees free education for their citizens. What’s more there are opporunities for foreign students to get free education there.

Statistics testifies that the level of education and high living standards in a state are usually reversely proportional to birth rates.

I think demographic problems in white countries and some others like Japan are mainly caused by modern ways of life and work, career obsession among females etc.

May be you mean the free AVERAGE education but this is wrong for the high.
Coz even the members of our forum have to use credits to pay for hight education ,as pdf did .

Statistics testifies that the level of education and high living standards in a state are usually reversely proportional to birth rates.

I think demographic problems in white countries and some others like Japan are mainly caused by modern ways of life and work, career obsession among females etc.

Well i/m agree.
The demography problem caused not just expensive education of life but also and human prejudices.
However both those reasons are VERY related. The common tend for all of western states today is the increasing of the cost of living- so many people simply did not wish to “lose the additional money” for bringing up children.The most likely way of thinking of the famaly that had just SINGLE child is “The cost of living is so much that ONE children is enough for our budget”