The following photographs are examples of some of the so-called intolerance to be found in at least one Muslim country; Egypt.
Mosque in foreground, Christian Church behind ; Esna
Coptic Christian Cathedral; Aswan
The “Hanging” Church, Coptic ; Cairo
Convent of St Sergius (St George) : Cairo
Sign : Cairo
(edited for spelling error)
Nice photos and Bluff says it all, the man has yet again started the weary road to retreat on yet another subject. I mean are there no ends to his talents? Our forum is truly blessed.
I’ve spent some time in two Muslim countries, Egypt and Bahrein.
I found the people in both to be friendly and some of the most hospitable I’ve met anywhere in the world.
On the shortest of acquaintances my son, daughter-in-law and I were invited, by our taxi driver to spend some time in a cafe over mint tea and a shisha pipe apiece to kill some time before our train left.
We were his guests, and not allowed to put our hands in our pockets.
We were given farewell gifts by our driver, who almost fell out with me because he felt I was tipping him too much, (about £8 for an entire day) and refused to take any more tips.
In Bahrein I had several long talks on religion with a young colleague, Imran.
Imran was half-Pakistani, half-Iranian, and very devout, although not to the extent that it stopped him having an Irish Catholic girlfriend 
To blame Islam for terrorism is, as has been said before, like blaming Catholicism for the PIRA.
It’s use as a justification is a distortion and a sham, but it’s not what is taught in the Qur’an.
Hmm now I dont know whether to laugh or feel sorry for you. OK I’ll laugh. :lol:
Up to my tenth year I lived in a West Berlin working class district. The children of the original Gastarbeiter were my class mates. The Muslim ones came mostly from Turkey, but also from Morocco and the Lebanon.
I had Turkish and Arab class mates in both secondary school and well as in university, plus class mates from Pakistan, Bosnia and Indonesia.
During various jobs I worked with Muslim people from Turkey, several Arab countries, Malaysi and Indonesia, both educated and uneducated (who do you think is loading the aircaft at Cologne airport? Most of the ramp rats are Turkish and Arab Muslims.)
My second wife came from a Muslim family from Freetown, Sierra Leone. When I met her, she was still a moderate Muslim. Unfortunately, while I was away, working in Ireland, she fell into the hands of a Southern Baptist bible bashing cult and became a reborn, fundamentalist Christian. This was one of the reasons why our marriage broke up. I could live with her as a pragmatic Muslim, but not as a bible basher, who had to consult the bible or the pastor prior to any decision.
My sister (she is 13 years younger than me) studies Arabic and turkish history in university. She speaks, reads and writes Arabic and Turkish.
Two years ago she spent 4 weeks in Cairo, Egypt in a full immersion enviroment to improve her language skills. The only bad experience was with a few horny teenage boys (three guys aged between 16 and 20), who thought that they could take some liberties with a young, tall, green eyed, blonde, obviously foreign woman walking through a bazaar area. They were mistaken. My sister is a brown belt in Karate and works out several times a week. She gave all three of them such a good thrashing, that they decided to leave the scene (one got his nose broken, another one almost castrated by a kick in the balls and one knocked out cold).
This spring semestral break she did a 6 week internship with the Saudi Arabian embassy in Berlin. They gave her a very good reference letter and even a cheque over 500 Euros, even though the internship was originally supposed to be unpaid. They also told that she was always welcome to work there again.
I wonder how much experience with Muslims Ironman has. I think all his education comes from Fox news, Google and some right wing American small town newspaper. I assume that he lives somewhere in a small town in the md west.
Jan
Evidently not much. I would have thought that even in Mid-West USA you would struggle to gain a college education without having Muslim friends and/or classmates.
Well, as I said, I’ve been married to a, at this time, Muslim woman.
Jan
Observe the slow retreat, hes on the back foot and starting to do that funny thing all scared animals do where their hackles go up shortly before they run.
That photo is awesome, its the worst photo shop Ive seen in years.
The man in black behind the toddler holding the weapons wearing black slacks appears to have no feet.
Finally the weapons he is holding appear to be M16’s not really the weapon of choice for Anti American forces! more likely Forces friendly to the USA and armed by them!
Finally - It is the man holding the weapons and the child is a bystander, I daresy he didnt choose his clothes and was dressed by a parent or relative. Who can say that they ahve never seen a toddler in their own country dress in camoflage and pretend to be a soldier. The Child is even wearing an (i believe) Omani, TRF. This doesnt prove they are born terorists it jsut proves that dads like to dress their kids as little soldiers, hardly the preserve of the Arabs!
EDITTED TO OMIT CERTAIN OTHER FACETS OF THAT PHOTO.[/quote]
Ok, I’ve seen similar pictures from Palaestine, there many radicals use captured Israeli M-16s.
Jan
Riever your photos have reminded me that the caretaker of the church on the holly mount is Muslim. His family has had been doing the task for generation.
Not sure but is the child in ironman’s photo Lebanese? If so it would probably make him Christian if supplied with US weapons.
http://www.michiganmilitia.com/wcm_field_reports/2002/aug02/camporific.htm
The Chuck Wagon showed up with his niece and nephew, Kylie and Christian. They were very pleasant youngsters, who got along with everyone, and helped roast more marshmallows for my boys. They also helped Uncle Frank with cooking detail, which, except for the part about the purple ketchup, went splendidly well. The children shot safely and responsibly, and young Christian even shot the 50. (Oddly, neither of my boys were interested in shooting at all. They were playing in dirt, and having a blast. I will bring my daughter Raven next time, as she is the true gun nut in the house. She’s 2 years old.)
Kids in the US preparing to kill the foreign invading Muslim hordes
Stones and glass houses comes to mind.
edited to add quote marks and site
Ironman, you extracts from the Koran are obviously not yours so must have come from another site. Probably some right wing Christian fundamentalist hate group using extracts from the Koran to justify their hate.
But any college-educated person would see through this, wouldn’t they?
What kind of beast would you hunt with the 50! Are there wild carniverous Elephants in Michigan?
I wonder where he will take us today?
Nooooooooooooooo. Please dont get into the second amendment in htis thread as well! :twisted:
oh well if you must :lol:
Well, let’s look, shall we?
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma’idah 5:51.11]
And the somewhat fuller quote to the end of the verse :
“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other.
And he amongst you that turns to them is of them.
Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.”
Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)
Not Koranic.
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)
My copy translates slightly differently :
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagan wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem; but if they repent and establish regular prayers and pay Zakat then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful”
The People of the Book are not Pagans, nor does the Qur’an ever refer to them as such.
Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)
For this one we need to read the preceeding verses, since it concerns those approaching Judgement. Sorry about the length…I didn’t write it 
"13) Then, when one blast is sounded on the Trumpet,
14) And the Earth is moved, and the mountains, and they are crushed at one stroke-
15) On that Day shall the Event come to pass,
16) And the sky will be rent asunder, for it will that day be flimsy.
17) And the angels will be on its sides and eight will, that Day, bear the Throne of thy Lord above them.
18.) That Day shall ye be brought to Judgement: not an act of yours that ye hide will be hidden.
19) Then he that is given his Record in his right hand will say: "Ah here! Read ye my Record!
20) “I did really think that my record would reach me!”
21) And he will be in a life of Bliss,
22) In a Garden on high,
23) The fruits whereof will hang in bunches low and near
24) “Eat ye and drink ye, with full satisfaction; because of the good that ye sent before thee in the days that are gone!”
25) And he that will be given his Record in his left hand, will say: "Ah! I would that my Record had not been given to me!
26) "And that I had never realised how my account stood!
27) “Ah! would that Death had made an end of me!”
28.) “Of no profit to me has been my wealth!”
29) “My power has perished from me!”
30) The stern command will say: “Seize ye him. and bind ye him,
31) “And burn thee him in the Blazing Fire”
32)“Further, insert him in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits!”
33) This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High”
34) “And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent!”
35) “So no friend hath he here this Day”
36) “Nor hath he any food except the foul pus from the washing of wounds,
37) Which none do eat but those in sin”
Nope, still not finding anything about killing Christians there, although I do hear echos of good ole’ John the Divine…anyone for Revelations?
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)
Accurate quotation : nothing there about Christians.
Christians, where referred to in the Qur’an, are referred to, funnily enough, as Christians, not unbelievers or Pagans.
They (the unbelievers) should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)
Almost an accurate quotation, albeit truncated and the word murder being used in place of executed: again nothing against Christians
Full verse runs:
“The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief throughout the land is : execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in the world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the hereafter.”
So, not one single one of Ironman’s chosen quotations refers to killing Christians.
BTW, the above post is not cut and paste, it’s copied from my copy of the Qur’an.
OK so let me see if you have the courage to answer these questions:
Does the Qouran contan numerous passages which compel Muslims to kill non-Muslims? (hint: Yes, it does. You have read only a few)
Do Muslim extremists use the Qouran for inspiration?
(hint: Oh yes, they do. They quote from it constantly.)
Is the Qouran going to go away? (hint: No.)
Therefore, does the Qouran inspire and promote Muslim extremism? (hint: Why ofcourse it does. Just as the Bible would if it had passages in it compelling Christians to kill Muslims, which it does not.)
Unless you answer those questions, all is blather. I find it difficult to believe that someone can argue this pont while attempting to disqualify what is so plainty factual. Why are you opposed to those simple questions?
There is nothing whatsoever false about the following statement:
As long as there are Muslims willing to act (extremists) on some of the words of the Qouran, there will be Muslim terrorists.
Now, for the dorkos here, you have failed to put words into my mouth. I have not said that all Muslims are evil or hate the west. What I said is that Muslim children are taught to dislike the west. They are taught that the west is full of idoletry. They are taught that western society is evil. Those things are true. It is begining to change, but it HAS NOT CHANGED for the most part. It’s perposterous to act like a dweeb and say these things are not so for the purpose of arguing. Almost nobody in this world shares your opinion that Muslims are taught that the west is their friend and that Christians are their brothers. YOU, are extremists. :lol:
Question : Does the Qur’an contain, as you claimed, many passages which exhort Muslims to kill Christians?
Hint, NO.
Now change this : “Therefore, does the Qouran inspire and promote Muslim extremism? (hint: Why ofcourse it does. Just as the Bible would if it had passages in it compelling Christians to kill Muslims, which it does not.)”
to this :“Therefore, can the Qur’an be perverted to inspire and promote Muslim extremism?”
then I would agree with you.
As for this :
“Just as the Bible would if it had passages in it compelling Christians to kill Muslims, which it does not.)”
How could it, you idiot?
Islam came into being hundreds of years after the New Testament was written.
It (The Bible) is, however, still used to justify all sorts of evils perpetrated in the name of some moron’s concept of God.
The Iron one wrote this:
Now, for the dorkos here, you have failed to put words into my mouth. I have not said that all Muslims are evil or hate the west. What I said is that Muslim children are taught to dislike the west. They are taught that the west is full of idoletry. They are taught that western society is evil. Those things are true. It is begining to change, but it HAS NOT CHANGED for the most part. It’s perposterous to act like a dweeb and say these things are not so for the purpose of arguing. Almost nobody in this world shares your opinion that Muslims are taught that the west is their friend and that Christians are their brothers. YOU, are extremists
So Iron one, we are all Dorkos now?
You still have not proveded, despite my asking 4 times now, evidence that all Muslim children are taught to hate the west.
As usual, you slip and slide and state and pronounce where you can give no proof.
Please provide the evidence and I will be convinced.
ironman i have reposted as you probably missed it
Ironman, you extracts from the Koran are obviously not yours so must have come from another site. Probably some right wing Christian fundamentalist hate group using extracts from the Koran to justify their hate.
But any college-educated person would see through this, wouldn’t they?
my bold
Almost nobody in this world shares your opinion that Muslims are taught that the west is their friend and that Christians are their brothers. YOU, are extremists. :lol:
Well you did say….
Top page 11
Again, the Quoran is taught to Muslim chilren every day. It teaches hate toward Christians and that they should be killed. What say you about that?
Page 8 about 5 from bottom
Does this mean that it will never be possible to make them like us? Absofreakinglutely! As long as they are not Christian and the west predominantly is, it will be so.
down to the final solution them.
Does that mean that we cannot make friends with them and even allies of them? Perhaps for a while, but not permanently.
We have been friends with Jordan for a number of years. Its present king held a commission in a cavalry regiment and is still its Colonel. We get on very well with Brunei and Singapore. We have had an alliance with Morocco for centuries and we have been friendly with Turkey as well. We have played cricket with Pakistan ever since it came into being so they must be good fellows.
By my logic, Islam will always produce terrorists.
Hasn’t in the past. But your logic speaks volumes
IRONMAN, which Islamic countries have you visited and how long did you spend in each country ?