Further to that, because I realise that the USA is huge this is not meant disrespectfully,
How many foreign countries have you visited at all? just so that we can guage teh depth of your experience of other national cultures.
This is not a Gibe, I jsut wonder how long you have spent in other people’s countries?
Did you really mean indignantly? What, we said “Oh my god there goes a darky, how dare he be here?”
I think you need to resit English, my boy Sonny Jim
EDITED to be really condescending and patronising.[/quote]
This post makes no sence whatsoever. Please try again.[/quote]
I’m sure that it makes no sence (sic) to you whatsoever, you have just proved my point though.
Hint, look up indignant in a dictionary and don’t spout “bullhockey” (sic).
Wrong Dorko. It even calls them to terrorism!
Allah orders Muslims to terrorize non-Muslims on his behalf:
“Strike terror (into the hearts of ) the enemies of Allah and your enemies” (Sura 8:60)."
Allah then assures his followers that he will assist them:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not you who slay them, it is Allah” (Sura 8:12, 17)."
You didn’t answer that one.
You didn’t answer that one either.
WOW. You’re messed up. Bad. You are defending the Muslim useage of the Quran, which is littered with messages of violence towrd non-Muslims, while criticizing the Bible for supposedly the same thing? Dudey, you’re wacked the frick out.
Your British liberalism and complacency toward Islamic extremists (typical in Britian for the last decade) has made you it’s bitch. You actually believe the blather your nation’s governemtn has been spoon-feeding you. Have you been so sluggish that you have not seen what has been going on in your own country much less the world? Here’s news for you:
Michael Ledeen
Jewish World Review
“In the growing recent literature about Great Britain’s appeasement of Islamic terrorists over the past decade and more, we’ve come to understand that London was, in many ways, the epicenter of the terror network. Terrorists wanted in other countries were given safe haven in the United Kingdom, and the most amazingly hateful language was spewed out, openly and proudly, by various sheikhs and imams, all left to incite the faithful to terrible acts against innocent people the world over. For all this, her majesty’s government had its reasons. There was a reluctance to offend “the Arabs,” the richest of whom had long used London as a home away from the sand, and as their financial and banking center of choice. Moreover, there was a traditional disdain of the Arabs, born out of long experience and expressed in open doubt that “those people” would ever constitute a serious threat, or indeed anything serious. Further, there was a long tradition of open and boisterous political speech, which reflexively protected even terrorist preachers from official rebuke or punishment. To these traditions, there was the usual deadly overlay of political correctness, what Mark Steyn calls the multiculti view, according to which people with traditions different from ours should be respected and certainly not silenced. To do that would not only be non-multiculti, it would risk the advantages of the special relationship with the Arab world.”
[quote=“IRONMAN”]
Wrong Dorko. It even calls them to terrorism!
Allah orders Muslims to terrorize non-Muslims on his behalf:
“Strike terror (into the hearts of ) the enemies of Allah and your enemies” (Sura 8:60)."
Allah then assures his followers that he will assist them:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not you who slay them, it is Allah” (Sura 8:12, 17)."
You didn’t answer that one.
You didn’t answer that one either.
WOW. You’re messed up. Bad. You are defending the Muslim useage of the Quran, which is littered with messages of violence towrd non-Muslims, while criticizing the Bible for supposedly the same thing? Dudey, you’re wacked the frick out.
Your British liberalism and complacency toward Islamic extremists (typical in Britian for the last decade) has made you it’s bitch. You actually believe the blather your nation’s governemtn has been spoon-feeding you. Have you been so sluggish that you have not seen what has been going on in your own country much less the world? Here’s news for you:
Michael Ledeen
Jewish World Review
“In the growing recent literature about Great Britain’s appeasement of Islamic terrorists over the past decade and more, we’ve come to understand that London was, in many ways, the epicenter of the terror network. Terrorists wanted in other countries were given safe haven in the United Kingdom, and the most amazingly hateful language was spewed out, openly and proudly, by various sheikhs and imams, all left to incite the faithful to terrible acts against innocent people the world over. For all this, her majesty’s government had its reasons. There was a reluctance to offend “the Arabs,” the richest of whom had long used London as a home away from the sand, and as their financial and banking center of choice. Moreover, there was a traditional disdain of the Arabs, born out of long experience and expressed in open doubt that “those people” would ever constitute a serious threat, or indeed anything serious. Further, there was a long tradition of open and boisterous political speech, which reflexively protected even terrorist preachers from official rebuke or punishment. To these traditions, there was the usual deadly overlay of political correctness, what Mark Steyn calls the multiculti view, according to which people with traditions different from ours should be respected and certainly not silenced. To do that would not only be non-multiculti, it would risk the advantages of the special relationship with the Arab world.”
http://jewishworldreview.com/michael/ledeen071405.php3[/quote]
Now sonny, if you’re going to quote me, quote me in context and fully.
Wrong, Junior.
I’ve read the Qur’an.
Those are the quotes you posted.
This in reply to your contention that I had read just a few.
Now you change the context from Christians being killed, as you originally claimed, to non-Muslims…and still you’re wrong.
That would be non-believers, i.e. non-Christians and non-Jews.
Not quite as generalised as your idea, now is it?
Now Dorko, do some terrorists use the Qur’an for inspiration.
Yes, I’m sure they do, just as the Inquisition, the KKK and white supremacists used and still use the Bible for the same thing.
Is the Qur’an going to go away?
I would doubt it: is the Bible? Is the Torah?
And then this :
“WOW. You’re messed up. Bad. You are defending the Muslim useage of the Quran, which is littered with messages of violence towrd non-Muslims, while criticizing the Bible for supposedly the same thing? Dudey, you’re wacked the frick out.”
Well, Junior, have you read the Bible recently?
Now, I can start quoting the instances where God tells his chosen people to smite plenty, but I won’t find a single reference to killing Muslims.
Wonder why that would be?
And I’m so pleased than in your search for balanced sources you’ve given up on the World Socialist Website, and moved to that well known balanced view on Islam, the Jewish World Review.
I knew you were an idiot, I hadn’t realised you were a racist idiot.
IRONMAN, did you miss my last post ?
I asked which Islamic countries you have visited and how much time you spent in them.
Just a polite reminder of the question.
The US really needs to get a grip, once again ham fisted actions alienating those they should be keeping on side.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4684489.stm
US Immigration and Customs Enforcement said it had information indicating Dr Badawi was “inadmissible”.
and what would this have been?
“He was looking shifty and had a funny name” possibly?
FFS hearts and minds also includes a healthy amount of respect for those you are trying to win over, treat people like shit and one day they may decide they’re not your friends anymore.
Well, it makes a change from being bombed by terrorists openly funded by US citizens. Bitch? One attack does not make us anyone’s bitch. At least 54 are dead, but the city runs as it did before. The only underground lines not running are the ones with train (and worse) fragments in the tunnels.
As for appeasement, there are certain people who should have been deied entry to the country, most notable Dr. al-Qaradi. However, the biggest changes needed aren’t government policy, it’s the mentality of certain muslim and communities. As someone who’s been following the bombings and aftermath closely, on telly and by popping five minutes down the road, I am delighted to say that there is a muslim backlash against the bombers. Lots of people out with the ‘not in my name’ banners, this time referring to the bombings. Also, more and more Muslim Imams etc are openly calling for the Muslim communities to cooperate closely with the police and take active steps to prevent such a thing from happening again. The consensus is that simply not encouraging radical islam is not enough, the muslim communities must actively oppose it or risk being tarred with the same brush.
Of course, it does sound like some forum members have a final solution to the Islamic question.
Well Iron man I cottoned on to your racism early on here and by your deeds and actions here youve just confirmed it for me.
On yet another subject, of which you know nothing, you pretend to know all. Your becoming a bit pathetic now. Was your last post a hint that the UK deserves to be bombed because we allow immigrants who are muslim here?
You normally talk pish, but this one is the biggest load of pish so far. Cant see where you can go from here, another forum for white supremicists perhaps?
Still laughing at Iron"man"'s rabid claims that no reference to killing Muslims is to be found in the Bible.
Well considering that Mohammed was born in around 570 AD it would be pretty difficult to find specific references to Islam in a book that was written a couple of hundred years before.
Edit: Typo
NOw ignoring the fact that Cat Stevens was banned from entering the USA, I would say that Immigration control can at times be a bit severe in any country.
However bearing in mind the number of terrorists and war criminals and despotic dictators hiding in the US I wouldnt accuse the UK of sheilding islamic terrorists. We may do but to try to score one up on that level is pathetic and yet another example of you dodgin the questions aimed at you.
Most of the pupils come from the poorest section of society and receive free religious education, lodgings and meals. Most of the madrassas have been isolated from the outside world for centuries. Students are brainwashed and the textbooks provide a one-dimensional world view that restricts their thought process.
Conditions in the schools are regularly condemned by human rights groups as crowded and inhuman. The day begins at dawn with morning prayer. A simple breakfast of bread and tea is served, followed by lessons, which continue until evening.
The students are subjected to a regime as harsh as any jail and physical abuse is commonplace. In many schools students are put in chains and heavy iron fetters for the slightest violation of rules. There are almost no extracurricular activities. Television and radio are banned. Teaching is very rudimentary and students are taught religion from a highly traditional perspective.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1694964,00.html
These are the conditions that prodice terrorists, not Regular Mosques all over the western world. Our bombers were homegrown admittedly but they were trained overseas, I have at least five Mosques in close proximity to where I live, a traditionally conservative white middle class area (bloody painfully pretentious too) and I feel perfectly safe, knowing that htey are in the area, If all Muslims hated the west my little corner of Britain would be in turmoil akin to that in Braford, but it isnt, because Muslims are not terrorists, or “Jihadis” (if that is a word) They are regular folk who follow a differnet religion, the sooner you realise that the sooner we can start to fight terrorism as a whole rather than the entire Middle east that views your ignorance as the greatest threat to its security.
Which muslim countries have you ever visited?
Which foreign countries have you ever visited?
How many foreign tourists get to your neck of Hicksville?
Do you have a pillow case hung on the back of your door with your bathrobes?
“Strike terror (into the hearts of ) the enemies of Allah and your enemies” (Sura 8:60)."
Allah then assures his followers that he will assist them:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not you who slay them, it is Allah” (Sura 8:12, 17)."
Jewish world review regards Palestinians as terroists I dare say that yes we have Palestinians hiding in the UK, but dont get me started on The Palestinian problem, yet again you will be shown up!
bluff
Your British liberalism and complacency toward Islamic extremists (typical in Britian for the last decade) has made you it’s bitch. You actually believe the blather your nation’s governemtn has been spoon-feeding you. Have you been so sluggish that you have not seen what has been going on in your own country much less the world?
We’ve been too busy living in something at least approximating an enlightened, free, tolerant, just society to notice.
In fact, we quite like it here. And as has been said before - I, and from the respsonses here the other posters - except you - are PROUD to live in our “liberalist” and “complacent” society (if by complacent you mean not turning into bigoted, racist morons such as yourself).
Mind you, on the subject of complacency and allowing terrorists in your midst, please do remember that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones cough cough ahem Noraid cough cough.
Those members of the forum with a passport! (not you IRONMAN)
and an open mind (ibid)
might like to dig up page 8 of todays “Times” that is “THE Times” not the New York Times.
For it seems that whilst “all Muslims are taught to hate us” and “All Muslims must kill unbelievers” that (as we have been saying all along) the Koran must be viewed in context, just as the bible must.
IRONMAN if you do read this article I warn you it has long words in it! but most important of all is that you realise it is not about David Bowie’s wife!
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1694739,00.html
Imams are there to interpret the Koran for the people and make relevant the Words of Allah, Therefore your use of google is not comparable to their wisdom. It is the radical clerics tht preach hatred from the words of the Koran, not the Koran itself. You are not an IMAM you have no grounds from which to offer anyone your view on what the Koran does or Does not say.
IRONMAN I appreciate that you will trawl the archives of the Times to try and find “reveleations” about British society, what you should realise is that this is a braodsheet newspapaer with a very wide circulation, anything you find we will be aware of, don’t think you will surprise anyone. Incidentally how much international coverage is there in the papers you read?
Muslim texts are considered sacred and are rarely subjected to the kind of analysis applied to the Bible. Most Christian scholars today believe that the Bible was inspired by God but was the work of men and women writing in the context of their times. German scholars pioneered biblical criticism as an academic discipline from the 19th century.
Creationists and conservative evangelicals still believe the entire Bible to be the inerrant word of God, but redactional criticism has indicated that there were at least five separate authors of the first five books of the Bible alone, and that three different Isaiahs were rolled into one.
If the Koran instructs all Muslims to hate and Kill the west, Why dont all Muslims support the terrorist groups? Or do they?
Answer that IRONMAN!
http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/248.pdf
read that.
I know you wont because it has big words in it, so there is a simpler version editted for you here.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/14/AR2005071401030.html?nav=rss_nation
EDITTED TO CHANGE KORN TO KORAN - NOT A HAPPY MISTAKE TO MAKE! 
Dorko, here’s today’s lesson for you. Get a pen and paper.
Where the terms “unbelievers” and “infidels” and “people of the book” (readers of the Bible) appear in the Quran, it is in reference to Christians and Jews, and only them. That is what the Quran means by those terms. Ask a Muslim holyman. That’s what it means.
You fail to understand that the Muslims have considered Christianity it’s only real rival since Islam was founded in the 6th century. You see, every culture in the world at that time had a religion, and they all had a God. Multi-diety religions, such as those of the ancient Romans and Greeks were all but gone from the reach of the Arab people by that time. And while the Norse had not been converted by that time, their multi-diety culture had not been encountered by the Arabs. But by the 6th century, [i]all of the lands that Arab explorers had encountered were already converted or were in the process of converting to Christianity with the exception of the Hindi and many Jews.[/i]
What the Arabs meant by "unbelievers, infidels, and “people of the book” (Bible) was Christians and Jews. Those terms do not refer to any other cultures. They do not refer to cultures which do not believe in God, because there were none! Every culture within reach of the Arabs believed in God. It was not refering to the Hindi, because they are refered to by name in the Qoran. It was not refering to multi-diety religions which had become virtually extinct by that time. The Muslims believe that Christians are “unbelievers” because we believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and we pray to Him, and to the Muslims, this means that we worship a man, and do not worship God himself. These terms in the Qoran refer to Christins and Jews only!
Where the Qoran states:
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)”
and
“They (the unbelievers) should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)”
…it is refering to Chrisitans and Jews; the rivals of the Muslim faith.
Are you begining to understand now? Do you now finally see that the Qoran calls Muslims to terror and murder of Christins and Jews? It does kiddo. It most certainly does.
So now that you understand what we are talking about, you can now realize that my statements:
“As long as there are Muslims willing to act on the words of the Qoran there will be terrorists.”
and
“Muslim children are taught to despise the cultures of the west.”
…are true. Now you can say that you know Muslims and that most Muslims are peacful people and bla bla bla. But that does not change the fact that they all read the Qoran, the do not denounce any part of it, and if you think that because a Muslim smiles at you and talks to you while you are shopping in his little shoppe on the corners that he thinks you are his religious equal, I have more news for you. He may befriend you, but to him, you are still a unbeliever and an infidel.
Getting the picture now sonny?
But you see, I am not racist kiddo. You are wrong about that too. I only made a factual observation and you dislike it. Am I conservative? Somewhat. Am I religiously headstrong? Probably as musch as most Muslims are. But racist? Naaaaah. Not that.
You are not a Muslim Holy Man, therefore I will not ask you opinion.
Is a Multi Diety God, one that does alot of weight watchers? or is it like a multi Deity god? Such as is still prevalent in the Hindu religion and Christianity when we appreciate the Trinity as an interpretation of a single God, as the Deities of the Hindu religion are interpretations of Brahman.
Why would mutli deity Gods even need to arrive in this discussion? Or did you jst include thm to change tack and try to alleviate the pressure from your pencil neck and puny shoulders when the weight of modern acadeimia is at your door?
Have you ever met a Muslim?
Been to a Muslim country?
Carried a US passport?
Been to a foreign country?
Been wrong??
[quote=“Crab_to_be”]
Well, it makes a change from being bombed by terrorists openly funded by US citizens. Bitch? One attack does not make us anyone’s bitch.[/quote]
The terrorists came from inside Britain. Not the US.
EDITED TO ADD:
And their money came from inside Britain too. You have more terrorists in Britain stewing away than any other western nation.
CNN article up right now:
Law enforcement officials told CNN the FBI is also investigating the background of Magdy El-Nashar of Cairo, who earned a doctorate in biochemistry from Leeds University this year, the university said.
Two of the four bombers in the July 7 attacks were from Leeds, 200 miles north of London.
El-Nashar’s name surfaced during a search of a property near London, one official said. Another official said El-Nashar’s number appeared in a cell phone recovered in the search.
El-Nashar studied chemical engineering at North Carolina State University in Raleigh during the spring semester in 2000, according to NCSU records.
He is not believed to be in the United States, and Leeds University said he had not been seen on the campus since the beginning of July. (Full story)
The Guardian reported Friday that El-Nashar lived in a flat near a suspected bomb factory in Leeds, where authorities have been focusing much of their efforts.
The British newspaper reported that several kilos of “potentially dangerous” chemicals were found at his flat Wednesday night after army explosives experts blew open the front door.
The paper reported that friends of El-Nashar said he left for Egypt about four weeks ago.
On Friday, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Ian Blair said he expected the investigation to uncover a “clear al Qaeda link” and warned again of the “very strong possibility” of further terrorist attacks.
He acknowledged that a man on a watch list had entered the country shortly before the attacks but was not put under surveillance because he was not considered a high enough priority.
The man reportedly flew out of the country just before the bombers struck, the UK’s Press Association said.
“With this particular man there is nothing at the moment that links him directly, but what we expect to find at some stage is that there is a clear al Qaeda link,” Blair told the BBC.
He said police were concentrating on finding the handlers and bombmakers who organized the attacks.
“We have got to find … who encouraged them, who trained them, who is the chemist. Those are the things in which we are now so interested.”
Blair said reports that police had found a quantity of homemade explosives of a type previously used by al Qaeda at a house in Leeds offered a “reasonably fair picture” of the investigation, although he wouldn’t comment directly on the reports.
The BBC quoted unnamed sources as saying that some of the explosive, acetone peroxide, was still in the house. The BBC said it was the same kind of explosive used by the so-called shoebomber Richard Reid, a British man who attempted to blow up a trans-Atlantic flight in 2001 with explosives in his shoes.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/15/london.attacks/index.html
Terrorists come to the US and Britain to be educated because we have the best universities in the world. Most of them then leave for Arab countries to share their knowledge with thier comrades. Unfortunately a few stick around, but not often, and when they do, it is more often Britain where they set up house, like the 9-11 terrorists because the British has been for so long laxidazical about Muslim presence in Britain.
Another unsubstantiated allegation - prove it!