No disrespect Rising Sun, but with statements as those above and below, you appear to have a personal issue with Indian troops during WW2.
I don’t have any issue with Indian troops as such.
My issue is with traitors.
I have exactly the same view about soldiers in every army who switched sides.
If you want to see some really spectacular side switching, read up on the Chinese armies that switched sides from about 1930 to 1949. Those warlords make the Indians look like amateurs. At least the Indians only switched sides once.
I don’t think you could begin to imagine the mentality of people in their position to be honest.
Tens of thousands of American, Australian, British, and Dutch service men and women were in the same position. They didn’t switch sides, even when they were in a far worse position than the Indian traitors ever experienced.
It’s more relevant that about 10,000 out of 40,000 Indians captured in Malaya didn’t switch sides. They were in exactly the same position as those who did and, in time, in a lot worse position. The difference is that one lot were true to their oath as soldiers and the other lot weren’t.
3rd Sept 1943 surrendering to the Allies; Oct 13 declaring war on Germany.
There’s nothing wrong with surrender. It’s an entirely different thing to treason.
In any event, that was a national surrender that has nothing to do with individual treachery.
The same goes for the conflict between Italy and Germany after Italy surrendered. The conflict arose because Germany refused to recognise the surrender and remained in occupation of Italy for its own purposes.
A government decision like this is worse. Soldiers, no matter what you say, are individuals and most know right from wrong. If that wasn’t the case, we couldn’t blame the SS for the atrocities committed in concentration camps, could we? After all, they were honourable following orders, and couldn’t break their oath.
Individuals have moral sense.
Governments, and successful politicians in general, don’t.
Soldiers serve and obey governments, subject supposedly to the laws of war and higher moral principles, which is something of a moral paradox given the nature of war.
Governments do what they like, invariably without regard to the interests of their own soldiers and people in other countries and frequently without regard to the best interests of all of their own people .
It’s a lousy system from a philosophical or moral point of view, but that’s the way it is.
So, we’re talking about switching sides. Being disloyal to principles, yet it seems governments swopped and changed to suit their needs. That’s okay is it?
Apparently it is, so far as governments are concerned. They do it all the time, without any sense of shame. Witness Japan being an Ally in WWI versus its position in WWII, which in part flowed from Britain renouncing its alliance with Japan a few years after WWI ended. Or, more recently, the West’s support for Saddam Hussein for years before we decided to invade his country and kill him.
The last thing I expect from any government or any successful politician is loyalty to anything but their own interests; consistency; and adherence to principle. Or even having principles other than advancing their own interest at the expense of everyone else, inside and outside their own country.
I think it’s a disgusting way to behave, which is why most decent people don’t get involved in serious politics. They’re just the bunnies who enlist and try to serve with honour when the politicians have got them into a war in pursuit of the politicians’ partisan interests.
Splitting hairs, mate. I’m using them as example that some English themselves were disloyal to their own country. Whether they had a chance to fight is not relevant. Had they had the chance they would have.
It wasn’t on anything like the same scale as the Indians in Malaya, no doubt because the Indians who switched sides in Malaya didn’t have the same commitment to Britain that most people of British origin did.
As for those who switched, regardless of nationality, they’re just as bad as the Indians who switched.
The more I think of it, the more I think honour can be such a blinding quality. After all, the Kamikaze pilots of the IJN were apparently dying honorable deaths, yet there was nothing honorable in it, only the sad fact that they couldn’t think for themselves.
The same applies to just about everyone who serves on any side in war.
We get sucked into it by the bloody politicians trying to advance their personal and national ambitions and then go off to war with ultimately pointless notions of honour and service to the nation by engaging in an orgy of violence and destruction which offends every decent human sentiment and every sound moral principle. Then when the soldiers come home after doing the government’s bidding, the government promptly shits on them after promising them a land fit for heroes while the heat was on. It was ever thus, and always will be.