Sure , becouse it wasn’t KGB in afganistan ,but GRU and Army…
I hope you will not assert it was FBI that losed in Vietnam?
Um, the KGB was very much apart of the War effort in Afghanistan…
http://www.wilsoncenter.org/topics/pubs/ACFAE9.pdf
(You can probably easily get the Russian version of that.)
And I didn’t say they “lost” Afghanistan, simply that their ruthless methods failed to break the mujaheddin there…
The CIA was ever-present in Vietnam, along with Military Intelligences of the various branches…
But I’m pretty sure there was an FBI contingent there as well…
I think I’ve read of this incident or murder. Was he an SAS man? Something about going into a pub unauthorized and undercover and trying to mix with the locals?
In any case, it is pretty despicable treatment he received and it was bloody murder to torture kill a captive the way they did…But as you said earlier, something to the affect of: “big boy rules for big boy games.”
Having said that, I condone no acts of IRA violence or murders, especially against British soldiers who were doing their job as ordered and ultimately were there to protect the Catholic minority…
But just because British soldiers could expect certain death if captured by the IRA, they were a terror group. Right? Republican members were denied basic civil rights and were in some cases, by all standards, tortured by the RUC, which was supposed to be acting at the behest and pretension of a democratic state. The facts are the vast majority of the people rounded up were Catholic Nationalists and only a small percentage of those picked up during the early “Troubles” were Presbyterian Unionists, yet violence was being conducted from both sides. So, while I applaud the Ulster gov’t for not torture killing IRA suspects, one can hardly make such comparisons when they acted like a despotic regime attempting terminal ascendancy with only a thin veil of democratic legitimacy. The state is to held to a higher standard than an urban guerrilla/terror organization. And with the collusion you termed “big boy rules,” there is blood on the hands of some RUC officers as well…
Sinn Féin is now determined on stabilising the peace. But it needs to find a way of acquiring new habits of mind to go with its new political status. And it will need to find ways of serving the general will, rather than its own narrow, party-political self interest.
from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/ma...reland.ireland
I couldn’t agree more…
They need to hand over the killers who seem to think they can stab anyone after getting pissed on some binge of Guinness and self-righteousness…
I think I am done posting in this thread, BTW.
Lest anyone inquire what my personal thoughts are, I think Bono sums it all up nicely here:
Absolutely, and they wrote the rules.
As an example: in one of the above posts I added a link to the deaths of 1972. In that there are, as I described, a number of home-goals among the bombers. These came about because the timers and detonators of the bombs were pretty primitve. All around places like Belfast were what we used to refer to as ‘Sleeping policemen’ (these days we call them speed ramps). They were in place to cut down on the incidence of drive-by, sectarian murders. These ramps were really quite steep and if a vehicle drove into one of these without slowing to an absolute crawl, it would receive a huge jolt, hence, the premature explosions. Eventually, the Provies wised up. They would break into someones home, hold his family hostage at gunpoint and tell him where to go and park the car containing the bomb. Naturally, some of these drivers were subjected to the same fate as others who had experienced premature explosins i.e. they were blown to bits. Now if you haven’t had to go about collecting the remains of those that have been spread about the street, I can assure you it is not something that one would care to take up as a career.
No he wasn’t SAS. By the way, of those Britsh soldiers that have fallen into IRA hands - apart from two or three officers that were caught going walkabout in the Bogside during one of those ceasefires back in the seventies - none have lived to talk about it.
The main difference was that the PIRA was always able to milk every incident for its propoganda value. The Brits never seemed able to address this, so the Provies were able to pretty much write the story any which way they wished to. Both Adams and McGuiness are particularly adept at this, but especially Adams, who seems to resemble everyones Geography teacher. These days, the Britsh poltical parties are so full of spin, they would probably do a far better job.
Yes, this is a sensitive topic, but sometimes it’s better to discuss for a clearer understanding. Particularly if one has no first-hand experience of it.
Cheers for that, I’ve been looking for audio/video of that concert for ages…
I have some lossless recordings of my favorite songs. They’re yours if you want them. (that is when I get them out of storage in Virginia)
My advice is to go out and get a good copy of the VHS Hi Fi videotape, where almost ironically, the audio is FAR better than the piece of shit DVD version of Rattle and Hum --whose audio quality is reminiscent of a low quality porn DVD.
You can then record it using any digital audio program through your computer…
The CD version isn’t really that good either. And it leaves off the best songs. The (U2 mix) CD I made is actually of far higher quality…
If you go to u2torrents.com, learn how to torrent, they occasionally have some high quality “soundboard” (professional either from the mixing-desk or recordings made that were never "officially released) recordings of the Denver concert that was partially used in the film…They won’t torrent actual officially released material though…
Not only that: one girl had the lips of her mouth torn off with pliers, and yes, the girl was photographed and recorded on film post-event. In another case, a girl was tied and stood upright in a wall/cylinder of car or truck tires, over which petrol was poured and set alight…
I’ve lost count of the various similar events over the years that made it as far as the published media, and god alone knows what else happened that never reached the outer world.
I found all of it appalling, and still do.
Without wishing to seem racist, a retired Legionnaire friend of mine, since deceased, saw much the same in Zaire/Congo, in his time in service. I’m still as horrified at it happening in Africa, but mentally can “make sense” of it where I am unable to, regarding Ireland.
Regards, Uyraell.
The terrorism practised by extremists does not recognise national, geographical nor racial boundrys…no actions caried out by extremists surprise or shock me anymore, but they do outrage me.
I trust that all those brits who disapprove of the Irish struggle for freedom would have surrendered promptly had the Nazis landed in 1940 and lived peacefully as collaborators with their new masters?
Britain brutally suppressed any semblance of Irish identity across 700 years of terror and oppression. Frankly the actions of units like the Black and Tans would not look out of place in Hitler’s Germany or Milosevic’s Serbia. Men shot without trial, entire towns and villages burned to the ground, civilians massacred in a sports ground, the list goes on.
Then, with the establishment of the apartheid state of northern Ireland Catholics were denied work and forced into ghettos were they could be targetted at will by loyalist mobs and their allies in the Police.
Like all guerilla wars it was brutal and terrible things were done by both sides, I don’t deny that, but the cause was just. The goal is a free country, safe and peaceful for all.
Could you expand on the similarities between those situations?
Which Britain?
The one that had Scottish incursions into Ireland before Scotland was part of what is now Britain?
Or, given your reference to 700 years of terror and oppression, the French (Normans) who invaded and settled there more than 700 years ago?
Frankly, I don’t think you have the slightest hope of producing any evidence to support such wild statements.
Unless, perhaps, you know of an Irish Auschwitz or Dachau etc and their captives conveniently buried by the British in a peat bog somewhere, presumably by a rogue battalion of British SS pioneers which managed to fly under the anti-Nazi British radar during WWII.
Whatever you’re smoking, get a better dealer.
He’s cutting your stuff with shit which has seriously altered you mind. It’s making you look drug ****ed.
P.S.
Before anyone gets stuck into me for being pro-British, I have a lot more Irish in me than anything else and my forebears and my wife’s forebears on both sides came here from Ireland, not necessarily voluntarily, six and seven generations ago.
I’m well aware of British oppression in Ireland, but heimwehr danzig’s sweeping assertions are just silly.
The similarity is that when faced with Nazi invasion the Brits were happily spouting no surrender rhetoric. Preparations were made for resistance through unconventional warfare. British people enthusiastically supported the resistance efforts in occupied Europe against the Nazi presence. All this being said, how then can a British person object to attempts by Irish people to force an occupying power from their land?
The English had indeed been a mailgn presence in Ireland since the time of Henry VII, roughly 700 years before the birth of the Republic. As for the Scots, they were brought in to ensure a protestant ascendancy in the north by the usurper william of orange. In so doing they crushed the local populace, as well as defying the rightful king. All of this was done on English (and to some extent, Dutch) orders, even though it was before the act of union with Scotland.
I cannot see how exactly one would dispute the charges against the Black and Tans sir. They were more of a disgrace to the British security forces than any unit before or since. Sort of a Dirlewanger Brigade for 1920s Ireland. The robbed, burned and killed with impunity. They once burned the centre of Cork to the ground, then wore burnt corks in their hats as a reminder! Does this sound like the actions of a civilised group of men? Or how about the incident at Croke Park, when they fired into a crowd and killed upwards of a dozen fans at a gaelic football game? A Black and Tan bullet is as deadly as that from an SS Einsatzgruppen or a Serb death squad.
I know from your other posts that you are an intelligent and reasonable individual Rising Sun*, so I do not see how you can defend the existance of the British occupation in the north of Ireland. The Police force were 97% protestant and actively co-operated with loyalist terror gangs. Indeed, the reason for soldiers being sent to ulster was to protect Catholics from mobs of armed special constables. Many of the major employers would not take on Catholic workers, at least not into skilled professions and trades, because they assumed all Catholics to be terrorists.
Right, seriously, you want to open this can of worms? Reading your two posts already on this I can see you’re singing directly of the IRA/Republican hymn sheet. At first I thought your various posts on the site were attempt to play devil’s advocate for the SS but now i’m thinking you’ve come here to wind people up and that’s how you get your kicks.
Largely because those Catholics who did joined went straight to the top of the IRA hit list. Frothing at the mouth about some of the more minor niggles in British-Irish relations while ignoring a few elephants in the room is not the way to win an argument…
Is it not possible, sir, that I am myself ‘wound up’ by anti Republican views when there is nothing intrinsically wrong in the Republican cause, even if one wishes to dispute the methods used to achieve those aims.
As I have said whilst playing ‘devil’s advocate for the SS’, were we to all agree on every issue the forum would be a rather dull place to be. It is about an exchange of views as well as knowledge, and some of those views are strongly held. I would personally far rather people agreed with me than not, as any person would, however I acknowledge that is somewhat unlikely.
The difference between this post and those relating to the SS is mainly that while I have an academic interest in the SS, I actually have Irish roots and I am opposed strongly to what I see as the occupation of Ireland (any part of it) by the British crown.
Unfortunately, some of my views may be a little chiched on this matter, but I have a personal interest here, and sometimes I type rather faster that I think. Therefore, if my post appeared in any way OTT then I do apologise.
Kind regards,
HD
Republicans (note, Republicans, not Nationalists) turned to terrorism because the majority of the population of Northern Ireland didn’t share their political aims - so they decided to start killing people until they changed their minds. Nationalists share exactly the same cause and aims, but stuck to purely peaceful means. If you’re saying there is nothing wrong with the Republican cause, then you’re not going to be sticking around on this forum for very much longer…
Sir, you are a staff member here, so of course I will defer to you.
I think it best if, having now stated my case, I step back from this particular thread.
I trust that, as gentlemen, we may agree to disagree.
Kind regards,
HD
Heimwehr, I’m just wondering if you’d like to necropost, or start, some more inflammatory and controversial threads? I have some suggestions. You could try the infamous Bomber Harris thread, though I’m afraid it’s locked… :evil: