seriously, the israel military already left Gaza before, why they have to start the war all over again, that is a stupid move.
Update: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5184428.stm
Rockets fired by Hezbollah militants in Lebanon have killed at least eight people and wounded many others in the coastal Israeli city of Haifa.
It is looking more likely that a full scale war is going to begin. The U.S. is backing Israel, maybe the U.S. will use this as an excuse to bomb certain targets in Iran, if Iran begin hostile actions towards Israel?
Hi Fw-190 Pilot!
It’s a very smart move of Israel. They want to pull Iran into war.
I wonder if anyone can provide data about recent movements of Israeli submarines. I can bet that they are either on their way to Ormuz Strait or are on their firing positions there, waiting to unleash Cruise missiles barrage to destroy Iranian nuclear facilities.
And Israelis are in my opinion right. Instead of waiting for the first Iranian nuke, they are taking upper hand and on a larger scale repeating Osirak scheme.
Iraqis never recovered from the blow.
Now, instead of US move, which would enrage the whole world, Israelis are entering in a hard way and after, when Iran’s reactors will become just a heap of smouldering rubbish, every politician in the West, East and EU will quietly say “thank you”.
So, Shalom!
Lancer44
Is quiet shocking the Israeli faillure to find and destroy the poorly camouflaged rocket launchers in Lebanon teritory.
Is far more to bomb Beirut
As a side note…
Israel’s seaborne nuclear doctrine is designed to place one submarine in the Persian Gulf, the other in the Mediterranean, with a third on standby. Secret test launches of the cruise missile systems were understood to have been undertaken in May 2000 when Israel carried out tests in the Indian Ocean.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,1061399,00.html
More on Dolphin class Israeli subs:
http://www.dolphin.org.il/dolphins/
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/naval/dolphin/Dolphin.html
Group of Eight leaders told Hizbollah militants on Sunday they must free abducted Israeli soldiers and immediately halt attacks on Israel to end an upsurge in Middle East violence.
In a statement from their summit in Russia, G8 leaders urged Israel to exercise “utmost restraint” in its offensive in Lebanon, but blamed the crisis squarely on “extremist elements” and put the onus on Hizbollah to stop it.
A carefully-worded text said an end to Israeli military operations and withdrawal of forces from Gaza were other conditions needed to “lay the foundation for a more permanent solution”.
And the source:
ST PETERSBURG, Russia, July 16 (Reuters) - Group of Eight leaders on Sunday blamed an upsurge in violence in the Middle East on “extremists” and while accepting Israel’s right to self-defence said the Jewish state must exercise restraint.
“These extremist elements and those that support them cannot be allowed to plunge the Middle East into chaos,” said the text of a statement hammered out by the leaders of the world’s richest nations during an afternoon of talks.
“We call upon Israel to exercise utmost restraint,” the statement added.
Tehran, Iran, Jul. 16 – Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei described Israel on Sunday as “satanic and cancerous” and praised the Lebanese group Hezbollah for its “jihad” against the Jewish state.
“This regime is an infectious tumour for the entire Islamic world”, Khamenei said in a speech that was aired on state television.
He rejected the demand by U.S. President George W. Bush that Hezbollah disarm, vowing, “This will never happen”.
He also described the Bush administration as the “most hideous” U.S. government in recent years.
Meanwhile, prominent Lebanese politician Walid Jumblat said on Sunday that Lebanon had become a battleground for Tehran’s war with Tel Aviv.
“The war is no longer that of Lebanon. It is an Iranian war”, Jumblat told the Arabic satellite station al-Arabiya as Israeli armed forces continued to attack targets in southern Lebanon.
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7927
Michael Ramirez cartoon (from awhile back)
Iran Cowboy (a take-off from the movie Dr. Strangelove)
From the movie Dr Strangelove - Dr. Strangelove: The survival kit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1tCrDfulCY
From the movie Dr Strangelove - Slim Pickens in his moment of glory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eqboBMgOe4
more also by Michael Ramirez:
http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/cartoon-corner/01-political-cartoons-editorial-humor.htm
i guess i am suprised by all of your comments… it seems many of you wish to see a war for the thrill of it… I am not a Peacenik but i am also no Hawk… I am a Jew and an Anarchist, i live in the U.S.A. and i have researched this quite a bit. The U.S. news is reporting this completely biased, to be expected. Although im a Jew i dont feel that i must support the Israeli Government or Army which to me at this time appear to be the real terrorists.
although i dont pretend to beleive that any news articles are Objective or un-biased, maybe it is worth checking out another perspective. If you all do truly support the Neo-conservative agenda or even the Neo-libral agenda then i feel this is waisted on you. But, i truly try to look at this whole thing from a perspective of social justice and with no alegence to any religion or nationality or ethnicity.
news.infoshop.org is a anarchist news/opinion website and it has an article from another point of view. you can go there and it is on the main page… but there is an open wiki providing information on the situation… please read this and tell me what you think. it is short.
Are you off your freeking Swede!
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Bad move to go into Iran, unless you want to see many many more British Squadies killed and maimed.
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I would like to know what half the targets in Lebannon being bombed have to to with Terrorists - Power Stations, Refineries and Airports.
Before going on and revelling at the footage, please think of what its like to actually be there.
I can see both sides of this, and both sides are wrong!
Still, they come from the same stock and have been killing each other for 3000 years, why stop now!
Welcome to the site mate. As usual with me, I both agree and disagree with the majority of posts, but find myself agreeing with yours. Not wishing to seem obvious but maybe you should explain what a true Anarchist is for anyone here who may have a preconceived idea that you are also some sort of Terrorist advocator.
It seems that you are very young if concluded that “many of us” wish to “see a war for the thrill of it” from some news updates and some comments.
I know what a Jew is. I don’t know what an Anarchist is (from political point of view). I don’t have much time to waste searching and researching what an Anarchist might be (with exception on what I knew already) 
, so a brief description would be welcomed.
My bold. Please count the number of the American sources quoted in this thread.
Easy to say this in front of your PC/laptop back there in a safe (really?) America. Did you visit Israel in your lifetime?
Why not fundamentalist one?
Personally I am sick from Communist time about “social justice”.
Some quotations:
Groups from around the world are calling for various actions to be taken to stop the mounting violence in the region.
Send a letter to your local paper and speak out against the latest assaults by the Israeli government on the people of Gaza.
This page is part of the Anti-war and Peace Resources section.
It is your right to believe in whatever you want.
I know I’m taking sides but I want to discuss with you all these. Looking forward to your posts.
i would like to point out that the majority of Palestinians are not religious extremists or even very religious at all, just like in Iraq and even Israel. Most are very modern people. I think that the face of this situation often appears to be a religous war but in reality it is a class war when it comes to Israel vs Palestine. The non-extremists Palestinians still want the Israelies dead because they are the ruling class and because they have extreme power over them. The inequalities are blaitant. Often a picture is painted of arabs as being religious extremists when it is truly a minority.
This leads me to point out that almost all revolutions have been organized and carried about by a minority as well. If you except what ive said as having truth as i do, then the attacks on civilians seems unthinkable and completely unjustified.
I have looked on radical news sources for anti-government action in Israel since the attacks on lebanon, but there are very very few Anarchists in Israel that are not internationals. I have seen nothing to say that there is any underground resistance on the part of the Israeli Anarchists. Just like i hold the German civilians partially responsible for the WW2 travesties, i hold the Israeli civilians partially responsible for the situation in the middle east. If there was a lot of civil unrest (i.e. protesting to direct attack), then the situation might be different. All i can hope for is for the logical Israeli people to wake the fck up
sorry i missed page 4 before writing that…
Anarchy is a loaded word as are most… i would say anarchy just means “no Government” in greek but it means more then that politically… I suppose there are 2 thoughts of Anarchism to explain…
1 is the anarcho-syndicalist movement… a decentralized communist idea, leading thinkers would be Peter Kropotkin and Errico Malatesta… i dont specifically agree with this as i dont really think i have any of the answers as to what a perfect society is…
2 Insurrectionary anarchy… i might describe it as the constant desire to overhtrow the government and society and all forms of opression, without claiming to know the perfect end result, other then the desire for change and to collapse the system… You might be familiar with the Unibomber… Ted Kaczynski… he wrote a manifesto and it is a very good description of insurectionary anarchy… this is not communist or individualist in nature so much as it is Insurrectionary in nature.
i cant specifically give you a full description of anarchist thought… but i hope that helps… check out the Unibomber Manifesto or At Daggers Drawn for good insurectionary writings…
as far as that website is concerned… i dont pretend to beleive in everything they say… i think they are subjective and mainly leftists who want to cope with capitalism instead of demolishing it… But, i was offering an alternative view… even if it does come from a Anarcho-syndicalist website…
I, like many people, just want to see the world be a better place… some poeple beleive that they can change the system to do that, i think we should destroy it…
there is an anarchist proverb i guess you would call it…
there are two cows… and one cow named Daisy says “Daffodil, do you think we can alter the slaughterhouse in our own interest?” and Daffodil says “Daisy, i think you will find our asperations clashing with the requirements of the system”…
now obviously this analogy simplified Human society a bit much, and it is a bit more complicated then being cows destined to be slaughtered. But use your imagination. That question goes to the heart of libral vs radical Anarchist theory.
if none of this helps… sorry… i dont mean to change the subject of the debate here…
o… edit… one more thing… you sort of attacked me on being safe behind my computer… when in reality i only use library computers as i am a vagabond of sorts… i travel with a backpack and a tent with my wife/partner… i sleep in woods and get food from garbage… I am hardly safe behind a computer… i know many Israelies and have never been to Israel as i am 22 and have only been on the road for 2 years and have not left North America. I grew up poor and never had international travel experience… untill recently going to Canada and Central America… i am not sheltered or safe but i dont take offense because i realize you know nothing about me… I live in a lifestyle in which i can obstain from soceity to the best of my ability while i live off of its waist. and i am in a constant state of learning… i dont pretend to know im right. simply interested in logically debate
Hi Firefly and Jeffrey,
I don’t see any excessive comments nor particular excitement of anyone with what we all see on TV.
Regarding my own comments and opinion - I’m not siding with any of belligerents, but just trying to understand motives and predict possible outcome of whats happening now.
From Australian perspective what can worry me is that some individuals in Oz may feel obligation to join the fight, produce diesel/ammonia bombs and extend conflict to land which has got nothing to do with Lebanon.
I believe that any other nation like say Canada, Britain or France may have similar feelings and fears.
I can understand Jeffreys point but personally I’m not a big fan of anarchists and their ideology.
It’s enough to read about Spanish Civil War to know that anarchists were on the very extreme point from nazis and stalinists.
There is an old English expression - “Same shit, different smell”.
But I will learn more about anarchists with utmost pleasure.
Just please spare me crap about “social justice”… that is a fairy tale.
I’m atheist and such meaning is for me the same as “God which loves all of us”.
Looking forward for more posts from you.
Cheers,
Lancer44
i agree with what you said about Social Justice… i too am an athiest and understand what dogmatic phrases can imply… i truly dont mean to be dogmatic, and like to step away from loaded terms and words as far as i can… im not asking anyone to accept Anarchism as a ideology, i only wished for people to understand where i come from…
the news statement i made might have sounded accusatory… rather it is my own experience that the news by me is crap, as ive seen it on TVs in just about every establishment ive entered… check out this, it is an interesting segment of Fox news… please excuse the lefty bullshit all over the page
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4998.shtml
watch the video clip… i thought it was funny
also… i got this video clip from a Orthodox Jew Anarchist… i beleive he is with the organiation Anarchists against the Fence… or something sounding like that. but it is a good interview. To be honest its the first Orthodox Jew Anarchist ive heard, and i liked what he had to say.
http://www.orthodoxanarchist.com/index.php
Both of these are about 8 minute clips…
like i said before… i dont pretend any of this is objective or unbiased… i only hope to pull as much logic and sense from all sides as i can… i am tied to no ideology but logic… so far that has made me an Anarchist, and Athiest and a train-hopping-garbage-eating weirdo… o well
Fresh developments from Lebanon:
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“Well-placed sources in Israel argue that Iran is behind the decision to attack Israel and that Tehran influenced the timing of the Hezbollah attack in which two soldiers were abducted last Wednesday. Iran is Hezbollah’s main arms supplier, including long-range rockets and missiles of the kind that struck an Israeli destroyer and sunk a Cambodian freighter on Friday night. This in addition to massive transfers of cash.
The arms supply is passing through Syria, and Damascus also extends its support to Hezbollah, though Iran leads the effort against Israel. Intelligence assessments in Israel hold that Iranian officers were responsible and took active part in the launching of missiles against the Israeli warship and the Cambodian freighter. The Chinese-made missile, C-807, has been in the Revolutionary Guards’ arsenal for some years.
The Navy was surprised by the existence of such missiles in the Hezbollah arsenal, and failed to counter the attack. As a result of the IDF’s intensifying operations in Lebanon, Tehran ordered most of its people operating in Lebanon to leave. Some advisers, all members of the Revolutionary Guard remain. These are mainly responsible for instruction in the use of long-range rockets, the operation of Iranian-made unmanned aerial vehicles and also in planning and combat operations training.” -
“Three reserves battalions – infantry, engineers, and artillery – will be drafted in upcoming days and will replace regular forces in Judea and Samaria.
This is in order to allow the regular forces to take part in IDF operations in the north.”
Source: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3277523,00.html
- IDF for the first time used Destroyer MLRS rocket system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg8b6VBFq4A&eurl=
The Israeli MLRS is a modification of the American system, with the addition of a guidance mechanism that dramatically increases the accuracy of salvos of the 227mm rockets.
- Some agencies mentioned Iranian Zilzal missiles in Hezbollah arsenal.
This claim is obviously wrong in my opinion.
Look at Zilzal in Teheran:
More info about Iranian missiles will explain everything:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iran/missile/
And here interesting report perhaps explaining how USA is planning to strike at Iranian or/and North Korean nuclear facilities.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL33067.pdf
Cheers,
Lancer44
I think that this some what extreme action is to drag Iran into war allowing the U.S. a reason to drop some bunker busters into Iranian reactors. British troops would not be killed as no occupation would happen. I only suggested that the U.S. would have an excuse to bomb targets in Iran, I never metioned British forces.
I am on the side of Israel, they have had daily suicide bombings for a long time, which no doubt have been aided or supported by quite a few lebanese people. I think they should add suicide bombing deaths to Israel’s death toll, then the world may change their opinion on the current situation.
The recent Israel/Lebanon conflict could be traced back decades. The country has fallen victim to the Arab-Israel crisis for over half a century. Most media reports trace the crisis back to the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers "by Hizbullah or a similar action taken by Palestinian militants even earlier. By doing this important background information is left out.
A more helpful beginning point would be the recent Palestinian elections. After the fundamentalist party Hamas was voted in as the ruling party Israel and the United States announced that Palestine would be punished for their election results.
The promise has been fulfilled with the new annexation process of the West Bank. Israel has been annexing most of the resources, including water, of the West Bank.
On June 9th, 8 Palestinians were killed and 32 injured when a beach was shelled [1] (http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/06/20/israb13595.htm); on June 13th a missile attack on a highway in Gaza killed 11 people and wounded another 30; and on June 20th another missile attack from Israeli forces killed 3 children and wounded 15 more people. (http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=3313)
On June 24 Israel abducted two Gaza civilians, a doctor and his brother. Their identities are unknown and the incident has gone largely unreported in the mainstream press. In contrast, Palestinian militants the next day abducted an Israeli soldier. This incident has received widespread press and as a result we know much more of the details, this despite the fact that the kidnapping of civilians is a more serious offense than of a soldier. (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/14/146258)
The Palestinian militants have demanded the release of a number of Palestinian prisoners in exchange for the captured IDF soldier. Israel has refused to negotiate and thus the escalation of attacks on Gaza.
Soon after the escalation in violence around Gaza, the fundamentalist group Hizbullah captured two Israeli soldiers demanding the release of Lebanese prisoners. Many have suspected that in addition to the release of prisoners that the action was driven by the desire by Hizbullah to support Palestinians against the increased violence by Israel.
Like the previous kidnapping, Israel has refused to negotiate and on July 12th proceeded with heavy bombings of Lebanon and Palestine. Israel killed 23 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip with missiles fired from aircraft and shells fired from tanks. Israel killed 9 members of one family in a missile strike on a house near Gaza City.
The country also launched a massive invasion of Lebanon. Israeli aircraft fired missiles targeting civilian infrastructure, including bridges, roads, a mosque, a community center, and the Beirut International Airport, and the Israeli navy is blockading Lebanon’s ports. Israel has killed at least 50 Lebanese civilians and injured more than 100, including entire Lebanese families of 10 and 7 people killed in the villages of Dweir and Baflay., focusing heavily on civilian infrastructure such as the Beirut airport and major highways as well as a blockade , seaports, highways and bridges. "
this is obviously one-sided. but this is the side we dont see on western news
Hello Jeffrey, That’s an interesting statement. I would like to read on that subject, I have never read about the U.S. wanting to punish someone for there election’s. Could you please post your source where you read this? I would like to read that. Thanks