Dont know, I have no photo of captured Saharian trucks. Actually the vehicle is a response to the long range trucks used by the desert rats.
Ping.
Semovente dal 75/18
After the first encounters with british AFVs, specially the infantry support tanks and other well armored allied vehicles the italian army was aware that his main antitank armament the Breda (Böehler) 47mm was ineffective in most ocassions.
As an interim solution the Semovente ( self propelled guns) were developed.
Semovente Littorio Div. may 1942.
Following a similar path of the germans with his Panzer III/ Stug III, the italian modified the M-13 and 14/41 tank supestructure in order to accept an infantry 75 mm infantry gun.
The crew of the Semovente 75/18 was merely 3, driver, commander/gunner and loader.
It was used in the infantry support role and also as a tank killer, 44 round were carried for the main gun. 3 types of ammo were used, steel core armor piercing, high explosive and a special “efetto pronto” ( quick effect) HEAT projectile. Also a Breda model 30 6,5mm MG or a model 38 7,7mm was carried in the top armor as defensive weapon against infantry and low fliying aircrafts.
The semovente 75/18 enter in production in late 1941 and began to arrive in the Afrikan teather of operations in january 1942, giving some badly needed extra punch for the Rommel s Panzer Army.
Characteristics Sm 75/18
Lenght: 4,91m
Width: 2,1 meters
Height : 1,9 meters.
Crew: 3
Engine: Diesel Fiat V8, 125 hp.
Speed: 33 km/h
Armor : max 32 mm, minimum 7 mm
Weight: 13,200 kg (in M-13 chassis) 14,000 kg (in M-14 chassis)
Muzzle velocity 75 mm gun: 430 M/s
Elevation: + 22º, -18º
Traverse: 20º left and right (hand)
Penetration of armor main gun: 59mm (APC) 70 mm (HEAT)
“Pepperbox” muzzle brake in the 75 mm ansaldo gun
While the Italians were ahead of the game in organization and armor theory, they never got the design and production ends of it right. At the armistice, they were just starting to come out with a few good assault guns/tank destroyers based upon the Semovente (105/25 and 75/46).
If they had been a bit more on the ball (and Ansaldo had not owned a monopoly on AFV design, which led to poor quality throughout the war), they could have fielded AFV formations with P 40 tanks supported by the Semovente 105/25 and 75/46 AFV, possibly as early as late 1942. Quite a tough nut to crack, that would have been.
I never knew about the Ansalado monopoly. How constrictive.
You would have thought it would have been lifted by Mussolinin in time of war.
I have a couple of questions for the Italio-philes…
Was Italy working on a newer tank comparable to the latest designs?
After the Germans took over, did some Italian units fighting under the Germans use completely German equipment?
Was Italy working on a newer tank comparable to the latest designs?
Depends on your version of “latest designs”. The P40 was the best tank they were seriously working on (a P43 was on the drawing table, but really only a pipe dream) and it was generally about as good as the Sherman 75 (probably not as reliable or rugged as the Sherman however).
But in 1943, the Sherman was really not a good tank. The Italians best designs were based on the Semovente tank destroyers and assault guns (which fit their economy and industrial capabilities much better). Both the Semovente 105 and 75/46 were excellent designs overall and very potent weapons.
After the Germans took over, did some Italian units fighting under the Germans use completely German equipment?
I’m not sure but I doubt it. The Germans tended to keep the better equipment for themselves and dole out the lousy stuff to their allies. At that point in the war, they didn’t trust the Italians–I doubt they would have equipped an Italian unit very well.
The only transfers of GERMAN tanks to Italy by Germany I´ve been able to find was before sep43.
12 each of Pz IIIN, IVH and StuG IIIG and 36 Tigers. The Tigers were repossesed by the Germans, I don´t know about the rest.
It´s reasonable to believe, that the Germans did not hand over any later as the fighting moved into terrain where tanks were not so crucial as elsewhere.
Panzerknacker: you seem to have a good source on Italian soft skinned vehicles as well!?
(I´d like to have an AS42 to scare some Hummer drivers of the road:cool:)
A little used tankette flamethrower variant of the cv3/35 mostly seen in the desert of North Afrika. Seems it saw very little sucess there.
"[i]Designed by Ansaldo but based upon earlier Carro Veloce 29. Although commonly referred to as a tank, this vehicle falls more properly within the classification of a tankette. The Italian authorities showed an interest in a small, light vehicle which would be suitable for use in mountainous terrain, leading to the acquisition of 25 British Carden Loyd Mark VI tankettes in 1929. A Fiat-Ansaldo modification of the Mark VI, armed with a Fiat Model 14 water-cooled 6.5 mm machine gun was designated as the carro i,elo(-e (CV) 29. The armament was subsequently changed to a single Fiat Model 14 air-cooled anti-aircraft machine gun, still 6.5 mm. Subsequent modifications resulted in the CV 3/33, still armed with a single 6.5 mm air-cooled weapon. Apart from its distinctive armament, this first series of CV 3/33 had a characteristic track tension idler mounted in a bracket which was attached to the rear idler wheel. In 1934, the second series of CV 3/33 appeared, with the track tension idler separated from the rear idler, and with two 8 mm machine guns as standard armament. The earlier series of CV 3/33 were eventually retrofitted with the heavier armament also. Development continued, and in 1935 the CV 3/35 appeared, incorporating minor design and production changes, and retaining the 8 mm armament. A final version, of which only a limited number was produced, was introduced in 1938. It differed significantly in its suspension system, and was armed with a single Breda 13.2 mm machine gun. External stowage of entrenching tools, etc, varied from series to series. The designation of both the CV 3/33 and 3/35 was changed to L.3 in the late 1930s.
Variations of the L.3 were built for special applications. The most frequently encountered variant was the flamethrower, which was built in a version with a self-contained tank for flame liquid, and also in a version in which a wheeled tank trailer carrying the liquid was towed behind the CV. There were a number of radio-equipped variants of the L.3 used by company and battalion commanders. A limited number of L.3s were modified to mount the 20 mm Solothurn anti-tank gun in lieu of the machine guns. T ’ wo experimental variants of the L.3 were also produced, the first being the carro gettaponte, or bridge-laying tank, very similar in concept to present-day AVLBS, and the second being a recovery vehicle with an A-frame on the rear which could be controlled from inside the tank, making it similar in concept to present-day VTRS. It is interesting to note that this appears to have been the only Italian attempt at building a tracked VTR.
The CV was not meant to be used in lieu of heavier tanks, but was designed according to the Italian doctrine of the period, for security and reconnaissance duties, and was also to be utilized in the elimination of small pockets of resistance. However, the outbreak of hostilities earlier than anticipated by Italy forced them to use what was at hand, namely large numbers of the L.3. More than 75% of the tank formations encountered by the British in their desert offensive of late 1940 and early 1941 were comprised of the L.3, whose armor was not even proof against the armament of British armored cars which they encountered. The L.3 continued to be used throughout the war, being employed after 8 September, 1943 by units of the RSI.[/i]"
Yes, the L3 was not really an effective combat vehicle! When you consider that it would have to close to use the flamethrower it’s little surprise that it was not effective in this role! :rolleyes:
I never knew about the Ansalado monopoly. How constrictive.
You would have thought it would have been lifted by Mussolinin in time of war.
I believe that the monopoly was the result of the political system in Italy so Mussolini couldn’t break it up due to the political backlash.
A little used tankette flamethrower variant of the cv3/35 mostly seen in the desert of North Afrika. Seems it saw very little sucess there
In north Afrika was not good because the lack of range, in Abisinia in 1936 was a superb weapon however.
Of course the Selassie warriors had not proper AT weapons.
In north Afrika was not good because the lack of range, in Abisinia in 1936 was a superb weapon however.
Of course the Selassie warriors had not proper AT weapons.
That and paper-thin armor on the CV as well!
I remember reading somewhere that the Selassie would run up to the CV-33/35s and, in true frat-boy style, tip them over! Not the best anti-tank doctrine. Of course, the crew was then trapped in the tankette and would die from exposure.
That would really suck. Dieing in a functional tank because it’s on its side…
that the Selassie would run up to the CV-33/35s and, in true frat-boy style, tip them over!
And in that moment, cow tipping was born!
Littorina Blindata “Libli”:
Self propelled armored rail cruiser made by Ansaldo in 1942-43, it was used mostly in the Balkans and Yugoeslavia to patrol in antipartisand role, specially watching the security of main railways one of the most targeted objetive the guerrilla fighters…
The weapons included two M-13/40 47/32 mm armed turrets and two 45 mm semiautomatic mortars “Brixia”, plus several Breda 7,7 and 13 mm machineguns.
The armor varied between 11 mm ( sides) to 32 mm ( maximum in front turret).
More info to come, I have to translate that.
But what if the partisans blow the tracks and just derail it? 
Well, that is the dilemma of all armored trains, not to mention aircraft attacks. By the way the brixia is not an “semiautomatic mortar” but is manually repeater.
More images of the Littorina Libli. The engine was a diesel V8 240 hp.
inside view, the 47 mm turret base and the driver and co-driver seats behind.
http://digilander.libero.it/avantisavoiait/Gall_foto_Littorina_blindata_Ansaldo.htm
A remarkable characteristic was the use of a side “lanciafiamme”, flamethrower with a range of 35 meters.
Scrolled through and didn’t see this photo. Hopefully I uploaded it correctly. To the rear, the standard L3/35 armed with twin 8mm machine guns and in the front the L3 cc contracarro fitted with the Solothurn 20mm. I have a war-time set of Swiss publications that have photos of Italian armor. I’ll see if there are any new ones not in this thread and scan them if so.
Nice, I ve posted something like that, a profile here:
http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/showthread.php?t=43658
In a german newsreel I had see the 20 mm at gun mounted outside the mantlet of this tankette.