Similar to this I believe although the turret looks more angular on this one. (hexagonal as opposed to rounded)
Yeah, the wreck is definately an M3 Stuart.
Interesting, this is the first timer I ever see a captured Stuart in Italian service.
In our connaissace Panzerknacker on our forum from Italy in 1935 45 and by asking for Nox is one of the site’s Webmaster Beute Narod, there was no Stuart at the hands of Italians, at least we have no evidence that 'I was there. Nox said he would seek in its base picture, but he has doubts.
Friendly Fred
IThe one at Kufra is an Allied wreck.
The fighting around there was over before any M3 Stuarts arrived in North Africa, indeed the Sensussi were fighting in the 1930’s before teh tank was built! By 1942 Kufra was a support point for LRDG and SAS raids.
This particular tank is one of two that were suppossed to be used by David Stirling in an SAS raid on Benghazi - Operation Bigamy. It broke down a few kilometres from Kufra.
In our connaissace Panzerknacker on our forum from Italy in 1935 45 and by asking for Nox is one of the site’s Webmaster Beute Narod, there was no Stuart at the hands of Italians, at least we have no evidence that 'I was there. Nox said he would seek in its base picture, but he has doubts.
Friendly Fred
thank you for the update guys, by the way I would love to participate in that italian forum but not time at all, not even for this forum.
You forgot the semovente 90/53 that fought in Sicily, based on the 90/53 gun double chiuce AA-AT like (and better, too) the German 88.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_M.41_da_90/53
Under project there was a semovente of 149/40. The only one produced was captured by US forces and its now exposed in US Army Ordnance Museum, Aberdeen, Maryland, like a semovente 90/53.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_da_149/40
The only armored car not riveted was the autoblindo Lince, copied from the British Dingo (some of them were captured). The project started in 1941 but only during RSI it was produced.
We’ve to say two other things: the autoblindo were a bit more than “bullet-proof” (in italian blindate) but not properly “armored” (corazzate); furthermore italian AVS didn’t have bulletproof glasses: the lights were free… And the aiming instruments too, of course, were worse than German’s or Allies ones.
Another semovente was the 47/32 based on the light tank L 6/40, used in Balkans, France, Russia, Italy and Tunisia:
As Fred already said, the semovente at left is the 75/34 (an improvement of 75/18) the other is the new semovente “Bassotto” = a bit short of 105/25. About 65 75/34 were built and 30 105/25. Could Italy win the war??? 
However these last 30 caused many problems to the Germans attacking forces during Rome fightings of 8-10 settembre 1943. Two of them were destroyed during the battle, the others were captured after the Italian army capitulation.
Perhaps Graziani, or Badoglio. However I’ve never seen that film. Are you talking about the film with Anthony Quinn, Oliver Reed… aren’t you? It was censored here in Italy…
And still after 30 years never passed on TV!
Wait a moment. Listen to me: you’ re talking about Armored Division M not Centauro division.
Centauro division fought on Greek and Yugoslavian fronts. And later in 1943 in Tunisia, but not as an organic division and not the whole division. Some of units were sent one by one and shared amongst other units already in the theatre. However the most of the division fought against the whole 2nd US Corps during the battle for Gafsa, resisting for twelve days when was finally supported and replaced by 21st panzer.
In the meantime in Italy the High Command decided to form a new armored division with modern equipment. The division should be formed on the base of some elite units of MVSN (or Black Shirts or M Battalions), veterans of Russian front. German Command, and Himmler himself, offered his SS best weapons to the alley’s equivalent of SS (pollitically speaking) that is the MVSN.
The MVSN should have an armored divsion like SS had their ones. Both SS and MVSN were the army of the Party. Of course this thing, not officially, disliked the monarchy and high commands of Italian army, that were preparing the fall of Mussolini (25 july 1943) and possibly an armistice with the enemy. A Fascist division, commanded by the Fascist party and not by the Army, could be a big problem, especially with its German armament superior to other italian units.
In fact M division received from SS: 12 Panzer IV Ausf. G, 12 PzKpfw III Ausf. N, 12 StuG III Ausf. G, 24 Flak 88mm, 46 MG 20mm mod. 43. Other equipment was Italian: 24 flamethrowers, 20guns 47/32, 36 mortars brixia, 16 mortars 81mm, 94medium tracks, 328 light trucks, 75 haevy trucks, 30 cars, 1 autoambulance, 12 motobikes-van, 20 tractors, 6 tows, 261 motorbikes, 3 mobile workshops.
M divison begun training in may 1943 (some crews for Panzer Tiger, that should be delivered later) and made the first fire training the 10th of july. Mussolini wanted to sent the division in Sicily against the Angloamericans, even if not yet well combat ready, instead the Command wanted to split the division for political back doors… In fact, 2 weeks later Mussolini fell off and was removed.
Badoglio ensured the prosecution of war and the M division was told that it would be sent to fight in Sicily. Instead, all the officers, fascists, were removed and changed by fans of monarchy and Badoglio, first of all the commander of divison. The division was split and new royalist units were attached to the former M division troops, to look after them. The spirit of M division was defused… The new commander Calvi di Bergolo, son in law of the king Vittorio Emanuele, renamed the division Centauro II.
During the days of armistice, the division melt down and the Germans retook their own equipment. Later months the most of former troops of M divison joined the RSI, but there were no more tanks…
“The Lion of the Desert” is a 1981 Lybian historical war movie, starring Anthony Quinn as Tribal Leader Omar el-Mukhtar, that fought against Italian Army in the years leading to the WW2. The Italian General, that Nickdfresh mentioned, was Rodoldo Graziani, impersoned by Oliver Reed. It was directed by Moustapha Akkad and funded by Muhammar al-Gheddafi’s government. In 1982 the Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti described the film like “damaging to the honour of the Italian Army”. That’s why it was banned. I had the chance to watch it a couple of years ago, when it was finally broadcast on TV by Sky Italy on June 11, 2009, during the official visit of Lybian Leader Muhammar al-Gheddafi.
Yes…I might add that the film is no longer widely played on American TV…
As said DVX, the little “Bassoto” product provoked a lot of damage to the German forces which met, it was exactly the same thing for the allied forces landed in Normandy against the stug, this type of tank and perfect for the ambush and close combat, Normandy Rome as a theater were ideal for these assault gun. Remember that the majority of German victories of tanks against tanks in Normandy was made of the Stug. The Germans knew the qualities of these tanks, before landing in 44, do not be deprived of using them wisely, the land in Italy is well suited to combat this type of vehicle, especially in the north.
Sincerely Fred
It should be noted that the Stug technically wasn’t a tank with respect to its limitations–namely, not having a turret. This made it cheap to produce and it was still a very effective tank-killer under defensive circumstances. But technically, I think it’s either an assault gun, an armored fighting vehicle, or most accurately termed a “tank destroyer” in its final incarnations…
You are right Nickdfresh: Stug III was created upon proposal of Erich Von Maisten to create a Sturmartillerie (assault artillery) units. It starts as assault gun, but in Western Front losses and appareance of stunnig tanks like T-34 and KV-1 inspire panzer commander to test Stug III as tank destroyer and it works very well. Heinz Guderian was a fierly supporter of Stug III and try to eliminate Jadpanzer IV, a Stug III superstructure on Panzer IV chassis becuase he thinks that Stug III is very good and Jagpanzer IV drain energy from Panzer IV production, but Hitler is a supporter of Jadpanzer IV. While it was cheaper and faster to produce it has a greater reliability than heavy tanks like Panther and Tiger and like jadpanzer (tank destroyer) offers low silhoutte and small size, a fast target hard to get. So when in 1943/1944, when losses in Africa and Russia drains panzer production and ally bombing destroyed industrial implants Stug III/IV was forced into panzer division as normal tanks. The Russian Army get every Stug III that it can get and redeploy it as Su-76. Some of this Su-76 captured from Russian are deployed again in German Army.
I think the Stug III was called an SU 75 in Russian service and not an SU 76 as that was the designation for a Soviet Infantry Support Vehicle based on the T70 light tank
Righ, I forgot the i at the end of the Su-76 :(. Su-76 were based on T-70 light tank chassis while Su-76i were based on Panzer III chassis, Su-76i were gapfiller while Su-76 was produced in refined version without reliablity problems. The gun, the 76.2mm Tank Gun S-1, was the same. A good review on Su-76i.
Also Su-122i were Stug III with 122mm M-30 self-propelled howitzer.
The Sturmgeschutze series eventually came to replace turreted tanks in Heer service because they were quicker to produce, and thus could be made in greater numbers, which became increasingly necessary as the war progressed.
The only real disadvantage of a Stug. compared to a turreted tank is in tactical employ: it takes longer to align the Stug. on a new target. This means that in a fluid battlescape, the Stug. becomes somewhat easier to kill.
Which was one reason the Russians at times deployed turreted tanks alongside SU’s.
Kind and Respectful Regards, Uyraell.
Hey guys, I’ve just found a photo of Italian medium tank, the P40! Did someone know this tank! The allied tank crews had said it was an excellent tank, I’ll post some photos!
http://www.afv-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/header_89792.jpg
I’ll find some more good ones
Unofficial MOD Warning: You really needed four separate posts uploaded within a very short time of one another? Please refrain from making meaningless one-line posts. Also, you all need to watch how you interact with other long-time posters here. I’m speaking of the “‘frustrated’ German pic thread” specifically…