Liberators or invaders?

[Dani]

@Chevan

I know you can read russians.

No I can’t read Russian. I know only the letters and few words.
Read also my post here: http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=82970#post82970
There is a difference between Romania and Russia. Romania acknowledges his mistakes and errors, Russia didn’t want to acknowledge Soviet Union’s mistakes.

On the other hand you didn’t answer how come the “infamuos” Romanian Army was allowed by Stalin to fight together with Red Army after 23rd of August '44 if the whole army were a bunch of murderers? (and Romanian Army participated with more than a million people in fightings against Nazi Germany)

@Chevan

Well Dani, i could be think that my “school readings of communist history told that…” but unfortunately there are the many stiil alive peoples, who remember the burning alive peoples by Romanians in 1942-1943.
I know , you wery exellent finding in WEB, so you can search another sourses (not just your lovely Wikipedia)

Also unfortunatelly there are many still alive people who could remember rapes, lootings and executions of the Red Army.

As for my “lovely” Wikipedia, that project are intended to be a wonderful free source of information. Who stopped you to edit articles there (backed by reliable sources)?

[Dani]

@Chevan

Becouse , dear Dani, its illness theme. I don’t defend a dead ideology. I just wish to be the principial when i see when sombody blame my ancestors in everything.
I take part in other threads.

Hi Chevan,
I appreciate your participation there.
On the other hand I have the same feeling about blaming my ancestors in everything.
Cheers!
Dani

[Dani]

@Dani

Read also my post here: http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=82970#post82970

The reference cited in my post there was moved. You could find its new location there: http://www.presidency.ro/index.php?_RID=det&tb=date_arhiva&id=6101&_PRID=arh

On the other hand, considering the purpose of this thread I say again, for me and for the vast majority of Romanians Soviet Union was an invader.

[Sneaksie]

@Dani

Hi Chevan,
On the other hand I have the same feeling about blaming my ancestors in everything.

No one blamed Romanians in everything. It’s a privilege of Russians;)

[b]No, we have a VERY interesting situation here. Several people from other WW2 forum wanted to participate in discussion here, and they’ve got the following message:

“The administrator has banned your email address”.

They’ve never been here before and they e-mail addresses are completely different, from different servers… but they have one thing in common - they are from .ru domain. I must ask athorities for explanation.[/b]

[Dani]

@Sneaksie

No, we have a VERY interesting situation here. Several people from other WW2 forum wanted to participate in discussion here, and they’ve got the following message:

“The administrator has banned your email address”.

They’ve never been here before and they e-mail addresses are completely different, from different servers… but they have one thing in common - they are from .ru domain. I must ask athorities for explanation.

AFAIK, due to the reason that many past spammers flood this board, the admin banned the “mail.ru” domain and not “.ru”
You could ask Gen. Sandworm for future explanations.

Meanwhile who stopped them to open an account on yahoo, gmail and so on and to join this board? Please transmit them my suggestion.

Thanks.

[Chevan]

@Dani

Hi Chevan,
On the other hand I have the same feeling about blaming my ancestors in everything.
Dani

OK, i understand you.

There is a difference between Romania and Russia. Romania acknowledges his mistakes and errors, Russia didn’t want to acknowledge Soviet Union’s mistakes.

Dear Dani, the comission of war crimes which i read in your links touched just Holocost’s victims (jews). But who acknowledges the kiilling of civil native ukrains and russians,russian war prisoners and partisan’s families by Romanian soldier in 1941-43? I never heared that Romanians government admit the war crimes of native peoples.
Russia can’t to acknowledge all Soviet Union’s mistakes. Russia take just property right and all finansial depts of SU. How can russians answer for bolshevics and comunists crimes. Stalin was georgian, CK (central commitet) of VKPB was for 90% jews. In period ww2 jews were environment of Stalin, they were headed comitet of propaganda,culture,economic and most other. Juws determinate external and internan policy of early SU (till Stalin die). In army they were not much, but a lot of political komissars were also jews.
I am not anti-semit of couse, i know about enormous cultural, sciense jews achievements, even they were invent the theory of Communism.
You must to comprehend that many acts of soviet government during ww2 and after had explanation as personal revenge. Soviet propoganda inspired for hate to any who co-operatived with Nazi. The fact that Stalin alowed Romanian to fight together with Red Army don’t mean that he forgot about Odessa and ets. In the end of ww2 political officers conscripted to revenge for death of soviet peoples(and espesialy jews). They never told that in Ausvitz it were jews corpses, they told it were corpses of soviet citizens.
“Did you kill the germans yet, do it now” - told komissars,when soviet troops entered to the Germany.
The terror in eastern europe was as the resault of revenge, but it never be the so much like Germans and its satellites terror in territory of SU.

Cheers!

[Dani]

@Chevan

Dear Dani, the comission of war crimes which i read in your links touched just Holocost’s victims (jews). But who acknowledges the kiilling of civil native ukrains and russians,russian war prisoners and partisan’s families by Romanian soldier in 1941-43? I never heared that Romanians government admit the war crimes of native peoples.

Chevan, the above quotation is a later edit of your post.

One of the rules of this board is that on each edit you have to specify the reason for editing.

We could discuss ad infinitum. As an example I never heard that Soviet or Russian government to admit crimes like killing and deportation of thousands of Romanians in 1940 in Bessarabia by the Soviet invaders, to admit war crimes like taking 200,000 Romanian soldiers prisoners in the morning of 24th of August 1944 while Romanians fought with the Germans that time and sent to Siberians Gulags. I never heard Soviet Union or Russia to admit killing of Romanian POWs and Romanian civilians.

I never heard Soviet Union or Russia to apologise by forcing Romanian people to a half of century of darkness, terror, hungry and depravations.

As you already wrote,anybody else have its fault. Polish - they dare to refuse Soviet “help”, Romanians - they are a bunch of cold blood killers, Stalin - was a Georgian, Central Comittee of the Soviet Party - 90% were jews, bolshevics - they were communists. I dare to say then: Russians indeed are the holiest people on earth.

You know, the best defence is the attack. Stop attacking me or the Polish users (replying in this thread) for their thoughts.

All of us we have to move toward the future accepting our past (like Germans did).

I propose to close this thread before continuing any “hot” and useless discussions.

Agree?

[Chevan]

@Dani

You know, the best defence is the attack. Stop attacking me or the Polish users (replying in this thread) for their thoughts.
All of us we have to move toward the future accepting our past (like Germans did).
Agree?

Yes.
Holy truth. Just repeat this you please for Lancer. Because if you remember this it he began this dispute.
And thank you for the translator.

[Dani]

So, for closing of this thread I’ll wait for the acceptance of Kovalski, Lancer44 and Sneaksie considering that I and Chevan agreed.

I will take that Panzerknacker, Kragod and DW1 will agree considering that their contribution in this thread is one post each.

So gents, looking forward for acceptance.

@Chevan: Already replied in the other thread

[Kovalski]

I agree. It’s pointless to continue this discussion.

[Lancer44]

I also agree. Close this thread Dani.

[Dani]

I’m waiting for Sneaksie as well.

[Sneaksie]

Do as you wish. I still hope that you’ll not blame Russians or anyone else for mistakes your politicians made. If you think that your nations would be happier if history turned the other way and fascists prevailed - be shure to remember what fate they planned for all other races except their own and what world order fascists were trying to forge.If you didn’t, read a fiction book ‘Man in a High Castle’ by famous author Philip K. Dick.
In any case, if you want to believe in evil Russia which planned to enslave Europe - me or Chevan or anyone else can’t stop you from believing.

[Dani]

@Sneaksie

If you think that your nations would be happier if history turned the other way and fascists prevailed - be shure to remember what fate they planned for all other races except their own and what world order fascists were trying to forge.

My bold. If history turned the other way (I mean to be "invaded by the Allies) I only think that Romania would have the fate of Italy after WW2.
Anyway, if Churchill (as I know) wouldn’t wrote 90% Soviets and 10% Allies influence on Romania and 90% Allies and 10% Soviets influence on Greece… Never mind, I don’t want to start another debate on “what if…”

In any case, if you want to believe in evil Russia which planned to enslave Europe - me or Chevan or anyone else can’t stop you from believing.

No Sneaksie, I didn’t believe that because it’s not possible nowadays. Anyway I will close this thread hoping that neither of us posting in this thread are upset vs. the arguing here.

Cheers!

[Lancer44]

@Sneaksie

Do as you wish. I still hope that you’ll not blame Russians or anyone else for mistakes your politicians made. If you think that your nations would be happier if history turned the other way and fascists prevailed - be shure to remember what fate they planned for all other races except their own and what world order fascists were trying to forge.If you didn’t, read a fiction book ‘Man in a High Castle’ by famous author Philip K. Dick.
In any case, if you want to believe in evil Russia which planned to enslave Europe - me or Chevan or anyone else can’t stop you from believing.

Hi Sneaksie,

I could not help myself and had to answer…
Sneaksie, we know that our politicians, (I mean: Romanian, Hungarian, Polish, Estonian, Lithuanian, Latvian, Slovak, Bulgarian, Czech, Croatian and any other you can dream of), were often wrong.
They made many mistakes mainly because one thing they could share - they were between Germany and soviet Russia.
And soviet Russia was a real threat - death of a nations…
If after 1989 communism would survive for another 25 years, I guess that it would mean death for some European nations.
I know that you will tell me and others about nazi camps and Auschwitz and total extermination.
Sneaksie, all nations mentioned by me could survive, or could perish, but in honour, being subjected to German occupation.
None of them would survive another 25 years of soviet pressure.
Any nation can survive physical extermination but what soviets offered was moral decline - lie as total religion - no nation can live with it.
There was one option only - Timisoara or death.

Kind regards,

Lancer44

Edited by Dani for removing a possible offensive phrase. Lancer, please calm down. It’s useless to add gas on fire.