Luftwaffe Cannons & Machineguns.

World War II German Military
#141

Browsing this topic I realize that I had not put the ammo for the MK-101/103, so right away…

Ammunition of 30x184B for R-B Mk-101/103:

Some examples of ammunition of 30x184B, the cartrigdes used by the MK-101 had percussion primer, the ones used by the Mk-103 had electric primer.

Panzergranate 40 L-spur :

The favorite against soviet tanks, It had a 16 mm diameter and 231 grams tugten carbide core and base tracer. Muzzle velocity 960 m/s. Penetration about 80 mm of homogeneous armor at 100 meters. Projectile weight 330 grams.

Panzerbrandgranate Elektron:

Armor piercing incendiary, Steel shot filled with elektron , 410 grams, muzzle speed about 700-710 m/s. Penetration 32 mm armor at 150 meters.

3 cm Minengranate L-spur O. Zerl.

High explosive mine type, 330 grams, with day tracer but without self destruction device. Muzzle speed 900 m/s.

Panzersprenggbrandgranate L-spur M. Zerleger.

The devoted antitank aircrafts like the Hs-129 could use also this variant, an armor piercing, explosive incendiary amunition, with day tracer and self destruction…All in one ¡¡¡
The steel core bullet have a ballistic cap and filling of explosive nitropenta and incendiary Elektron. Weight 450 grams, muzzle speed 700 m/s.

#142

Any chance tyo know more about this, Is a captured weapon ?

Is german one ?

Pics from: "Rohrwaffen in der Luftwaffe (I) Waffenstande/Manfred Griel Podzun Pallas Verlag.

#143

second picture looks like a Do-24. (as you can clearly see the double tail in background)

As for a Do-26, here’s what I found. (no mention of a MG 404…)
Source: the flying boats

Dornier Do.26
Arguably the most beautiful flying boat ever manufactured, the Dornier Do 26 was constructed for Lufthansa to meet the requirement of a trans-Atlantic mail and passenger carrier.
Dornier by this time had extensive experience in manufacturing flying boats, as well as the novel tandem engine approach seen on so many of his aircraft. The rear engines were hinged upward during takeoff to avoid the propeller tips striking the water.
Upon the outbreak of war, the Luftwaffe took charge of all six Do 26s and utilized them for operations in the fiords of Norway, as well as general patrol and staff transport duties. In service, it was armed with a 20mm MG151 in the nose turret and MG15s in the beam hatch positions and mid-fuselage blisters. No bombs or depth charges were carried.
The boats were quite weakly armed and slow, so they were quickly relegated to behind-the-lines duties, where general attrition and lack of spares caused them to fade from service.
None survive today.

Type: Transatlantic Mail or Coastal Patrol flying boat
Origin: Dornier-Werke GmbH.
Models: V1 to V6, and D
First Flight: May 21, 1938
Service Delivery: 1940
Final Delivery: N/A
Crew: Four

Engine:
Do 26V6:
Model: Junkers Jumo 205D Diesels
Type: Each with six double-ended cylinders
and 12 opposed pistons
Number: Four Horsepower: 880 hp

Do 26A:
Model: Junkers Jumo 205 Diesels
Type: Each with six double-ended cylinders
and 12 opposed pistons
Number: Four Horsepower: 600 hp

Do 26D:
Model: Junkers Jumo 205Ea Diesels
Type: Each with six double-ended cylinders
and 12 opposed pistons
Number: Four Horsepower: 700 hp

Dimensions:
Wing span: 30m (98 ft. 5¼ in.)
Wing Surface Area: 120.0m² (1,291 sq. ft.)
Length: 24.60m (80 ft. 8½ in.)
Height: 6.85m (22 ft. 5¾ in.)

 Weights:

Empty:
Do 26V6: 11,300kg (24,912 lbs.)
Do 26A: 10,700kg (23,589 lbs.)
Loaded:
Do 26V6: 22,500kg (49,601 lbs.)
Do 26A: 20,000kg (44,092 lbs.)

Performance:
Maximum Speed: 201 mph (324 kph)
Cruise Speed: N/A
Range: 7100 km (4,412 miles)
Initial Climb: N/A
Endurance: N/A
Service Ceiling: N/A

Armament:
20mm MG 151 in a bow turret
Three aft firing 7.92mm MG 15 machine guns.

Payload:
12 Fully-Equipped troops

Notes:
The Do 26 had a gull wing and retractable floats. The push/pull arrangement is interesting as the rear propellers are hinged to rotate upwards 10° on take-off to clear spray. Two Do 26’s were shot down by Hurricanes of 46 Sqn on 28 May 1940 during the Norwegian campaign.

Do24.jpg

#144

Hmmmm…thanks but the gun definately is not a MG 151/20, this cannon have a different muzzle and the barrel was shorter.

Must be some kind of experimental weapon, I saw a MG 204, but no a 404.

#145

There are two different guns in those photos.

The top one is I think the Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 204.

The lower one is the Hispano-Suiza HS 404.

The seaplane arm of the Luftwaffe was always last in the queue for equipment and I know that they made limited use of both of these guns until they could replace them with MG 151/20.

#146

Thanks.

the MG 204 was 20x105 mm right ?

#147

That’s right. In the pic below (from the Ammunition Photo Gallery on my website) the 20x105 is the MG 204, the 20x82 the MG 151/20 and the 20x110 the HS 404.

#148

It used the belted or the nonbelted ammo ?

#149

Non-belted - the belted ammo was used in the Lb 204 which preceded the MG 204 (and also in the Solothurn S18-100 series anti-tank rifles).

#150

Thank again for your reply, too bad that I dont have any more close picture of the MG 204, is very rare gun.

#151

I remember reading one of Adolf Galland’s
missions. As he was climbing with his wingman in
their Me 262 in an interception attack against a
B-17, he told him to ignore the tail gunner’s fire at
1,000 yards. I think he then fired a one-second
burst from his MK108s at 400 or 500 yards.

He saw four or five blasts around the airframe
and wings, and the B-17 went down immediately.

#152

The MG151/20 has a reputation of being a powerful cannon, and Denel’s Rooivalk’s XC-F2
is based on it.

However, the cartridge is quite short and about the same as the MG-FF, 82 mm compared to the Hispano’s 110. Thus the amount of propellant could not have been much more than the MG-FF. How did it manage to achieve the higher muzzle velocity then - the longer barrel ?

Its muzzle velocity of 750 m/sec still fell short of the Hispano Mk 2’s 880 m/sec, however. What accounted for its reputed hard-hitting power then ? Was it the higher destructive capacity of its mine shell - 17 grams of HE versus only 6 grams in the Hispano ?

#153

The cartridge case of the MG 151/20 held more propellant because it was wider. The M-Geschoss’ HE capacity was less than double the Hispano’s, which held about 10-11g, but it was enough to make it more destructive in certain circumstances.

#154

Experimental weapons, Recoiless cannons:

Gerät 104 Münchhausen.

With the objective to destroy the naval supremacy dsiplayed by the Royal Navy compared with the Kriegsmarine at the beginning of of the war a massive cannon was developed in 1939-40 with the target of attacking british battleships and other strongly armored objectives.
The “element 104” was a weapon with an impressive caliber of 356 mm, designed to attack the ships with an armor piercing explosive war head.

Obviously the enormous recoil forces of a conventional gun of that caliber made it inadequate for its aeronautical use. For that reason it use the principle of the recoilless weapons, in this case allowing to of escape to gases of the firing by behind and that as well dragged capsula of propellant with a counterbalance, this balanced the two forces annulling the recoil.

The barrel:

The tube was made of chromium nickel molybdenum steel, it had a right hand twist. A belt for reinforcement was located in the zone where the propellant was deflagrated. The overall length was more than 10 meters.

(drawing from:‘German Aircraft Guns: WWI - WWII’, Edward J. Hoffschmidt, WE Inc. 1969)

The ammunition of 356 mm:

The projectile of 35,56 cm was an armor-piercing shot of chromium steel with an explosive charge of TNT in the base and slowed down fuze of impact to allow him to explode within the ship once obtained the penetration. The driving band of the projectile was pre-engraved and it match the grooves of the barrel. This diminished the amount stress of the tube in the firing and therefore allowed a tube of thinner walls but of smaller weight. In order to introduce the ammunition two halves of the G-104 were unscrewed. The weight of the projectile was of 700 kg and the initial speed about 320 meters per second. In order to prove if the weapon were really recoiless it was tested ffrst on a car over of narrow railroad.

The results were satisfactory (in some ocation the barrel moves slightly forwards after shot) The next stage was the probes in a fake aircraft body.

In tests with false nose and tail of Do-17, notice the ammunition load of 356mm down completes with propellant and counterbalance to the left.

After shooting the gases slightly damaged the covering of fuselage in spite of the gas baffle plates located in each end. Nevertheless this problem was not serious and the weapon and the test continues until 1941 even was teorically proposed its use in the Ju-88, and He-177.

#155

Two more images of the Gerät 104.

Probably the development of this anti-ship weapon was dropped in favor of the guided weapons like the Hs 293 and Ruhrstal FX 1400.

#156

This is really weird, experiemntal mounting for BK 3,7 in a Ju-288 nose. :shock:

No idea how it was loaded, manually I guess.

#157

280 mm recoiless cannon for JU-288:

This projekt is similar to the Gerät 104, but it use a smaller ( if a 28cm shell is small) caliber with a double back gasses derivation.
This derivation system allowed the gun to by embeded in the Ju-288 fuselage and gave it better aerodinamics characteristics.
One of his most remarcable characteristics is that it seems to lack the counterweight.

Muzzle speed: 560 m/s.

Projectile type: APHE

Projectile weight; 400 Kg

Armor penetration (estimated): 200 mm Face hardened plate ( shot from an angle of 32º dive)

No more data available, it remains as proyect only.

#158

How is the exhaust gas meant to escape from that? The blast at the back end of an RCL is ferocious, and in this drawing appears to be directed into the rear fuselage…

#159

It escaped passing by two nozzles, one in the right fuselage and other in the left.

However my opinion is that probably the blast would damage the lower duraluminiun skin in the wingroots, and yes… it is a little crazy.:rolleyes:

#160

SG 113 "Förstersonde " recoiless 77 mm gun.

“Sonder Gerät”, special material Nº 113 was a development of Herman Göring Werke of Brunswick ( a Reinmethall-Borsig subsidiary) in response of a RLM directive looking for a improved accuracy cannon devoted for ground attack only.

The SG 113 was basicly a single shot gun with a 77mm caliber tube loaded with a saboted 45mm steel core ap ammo, in the back of the cartrigde there was a counterweight wich was discarded and proyected backwards (or upwards depending upon the guns placemenent) to equilibrate the recoil forces.

Each tube had a lenght of 1600mm and weight (loaded) 67 kilograms.
Using the experience of Dr. Hackemann and Dr. Schwetzke employees of the LFA firm , HGw developed an electromagnetically triggered mechanism equipment. This mechanism responded to the electrostatic field surrounding the tank.

This cannon was first emplaced in 3 Hs-129B-0 aircrafts for testing in mid-1944.
The instalation in the Hs-129 comprised six tubes embeded in the mid fuselage, the muzzles had a 10º angle backwards. Its battery was trigerred by a “T” shaped sensor antenna in the nose of the Henschel.

Hs-129B-0 WrkN 0016

This aircrafts were used intensively in shooting test in the Rechlin Lutwaffe facilities in late 1944.

Upper view, 6 x SG-113 guns.