Extra points for whoever can tell me what the origin of the word barbarian is and what it originally signfied.[/quote]
It was a song by the Beach Boys, about a young man in love.
It is their country, they can name it whatever they like to. As long as they don’t try to change borders, there is no reason for you to complain about.
Jan
Their next task is to try and change the borders.
They can call their country whatever they want,b to ut isn’t it a bit dangerous to have common borders and name?
see what you ppl dont understand is that im not worried about the LAND im worried about Slavic ppl claiming GREEK history
im a Australian Greek, but what happens if us Greeks started claiming Roman history was actually Greece’s history, wouldnt there b a bit uproar with the Italians??? so what difference does it make if a Skopjan claims Greek history, i couldnt care about the land of FYROM cauz if anyone is familiar with Ancient Greek history, FYROM which calls themselves the republic of Macedonia only contains 10% of the ANCIENT land of Makedonia
so 90%of there land is traditionally Slavic and the other 10% is Macedonian, they name a whole country Macedonia when only 10% of the land is originally Macedonian, anyone see a problem with this
heres a post from another forum:
Is a rose by any other name still a rose? What if we started calling the “rose” an “onion”? If you had both next to each other, could you point to each and call each an onion? Would one be a real onion and the other a fake onion? Would both smell the same, look the same, have the same texture, color, and all other qualities?
If you asked someone for an onion what would he give you? Would your sweetheart appreciate the dozen onions that you sent her for Valentine’s Day?
Now, what happens if one area of our world started calling itself with the same name as a neighboring area? What if this area also took the identity and history of its neighbors? What if this first area becomes a country? Can it now decide to call itself with the same name as its neighbor and the rest of the world recognizes
it so?
We read the above hypothetical situation and think that it is so ridiculous that it could never happen. But, that is exactly what is happening today right before our eyes between The FYROM, former Yugoslavia’s southern republic, and Macedonia, one of Greece’s northern provinces. Before 1944 the area that later comprised of the former Yugoslavia’s southern republic was not called Macedonia but was called Vardarska Banovina (Province -of the river- Vardar). It was in 1944 that (Joseph Broz) Marshal Tito, the Communist dictator ruling Yugoslavia at that time, created Yugoslavia’s southern republic and called it “Socialist Republic of Macedonia”. However, “Macedonia” was already the name of one of Greece’s northern provinces. In ancient times, the land that Macedonia covered included this northern province of Greece, a small part of Bulgaria, a small part of Albania, and a small part of the region that Tito named the Socialist Republic of Macedonia. It is pertinent to note that Tito’s Socialist Republic of Macedonia consisted of not only a small part of ancient Macedonia but also a far larger part from Slavic Yugoslavia. There is no doubt that creating this Republic in the southern region in Yugoslavia and including “Macedonia” in its name was deliberate with the main intention
of laying claim to the region of ancient Macedonia of the northern province of Greece. Particularly, what Tito and his Communist allies wanted was the city of Thessaloniki with its lucrative warm water port.
After 1944 a deliberate and systematic campaign was initiated for Yugoslavia’s southern republic to
take over the history of ancient Macedonia. “Scholars” from the “People’s Republic of Macedonia” were commissioned to re-write their history books to include the ancient Macedonian History according to the wishes of the League of Communists of communist Yugoslavia, accompanied by perverted maps showing their “Macedonia” going all the way down to the northern half of Mount Olympus. Also, “linguists” led by Blagoj Konev, a.k.a. Blaže Koneski, were appointed to create the alphabet for and refine the “newly discovered” Macedonian language, which, of course, was made to sound as if it were the “natural development” of the ancient Macedonian language. Through their control of mass media and education, the government of “People’s Republic of Macedonia” then introduced this language and claimed that it is the language that was spoken by the ancient Macedonians. However, this language is grammatically nearly identical to Bulgarian and, due to continuous government interventions, its vocabulary tends to include more Serbo-Croatian words that have replaced the Bulgarian words. They clearly overlooked the unquestionable fact that the inhabitants of ancient Macedonia were Greeks and spoke the Greek language. Numerous excavations in all of the ancient Macedonia area have consistently unearthed relics clearly with Greek writings, and depictions of
rulers clearly designated with Greek names.
In September of 1991 this republic declared independence from Yugoslavia and it named itself
“Republic of Macedonia” as a new independent country. They designed a new flag with the Sun of Vergina
at its center and printed new currency with the White Tower of Thessaloniki, symbols clearly from the northern province of Greece. Because of these actions and also because of certain articles in their constitution which implied that the their country had territorial rights to all of the ancient Macedonian area, Greece imposed a
trade embargo and prevented any trade commerce through Greece’s northern border. Greece reluctantly lifted
the trade embargo when The FYROM redesigned and accepted a new flag, stopped the issuance of the new currency with the depiction of the White Tower of Thessaloniki, and passed amended articles to their constitution implying that they have no territorial rights outside their present boundaries. Greece, however, continued to
object to their use of the name Macedonia. Because of this objection, the United Nations accepted this nation
as a new member with the temporary name of “The Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia (The FYROM)”
(UN Resolutions #817 of April 7 and #845 of June 18 of 1993) until a permanent solution to the name is found.
To this date no solution has been found and the UN deadline of September 13, 2002 has passed by with the
two countries only agreeing to extend discussions on this matter for one more year.
The deliberate and systematic campaign of distortion, stealing and absorption of the history and ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians is ongoing today with full and untiring strength. Although officially this country is known as The FYROM, through a vigorous campaign they have managed to contrive the world to call it Macedonia in common day usage. The Internet and mass-communication has made it easy for them to do this and they have used these tools to create a flood of misinformation. One such example that clearly shows their devious actions is the Web site: http://faq.macedonia.org/. Hitler is credited with saying “Tell a big enough lie, tell it often enough, and it becomes the truth”. In some way this provides an explanation as to why the inhabitants of The FYROM are so adamant about keeping the name Macedonia. Now, fifty-eight years after the start of the campaign of distortion, stealing and absorption of the GREEK history and ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians, we find that the inhabitants of The FYROM are mostly the children of 1944 and those that were born afterwards and who grew up with these untruths. To them these have become facts. But, must this go on any longer? Isn’t it time to set the record straight?
What’s in a Name? - In a name you have identity, history, ancestry, culture, ethnicity, belonging, cohesiveness, texture, color, and many other qualities. And, it is in the Macedonian names, which those in The FYROM now want to claim as their own, where one of the greatest proofs of the GREEKNESS of Macedonia lies. Here are some of countless examples:
Macedonian = GREEK for “the tall one”
Amyntas (father of Philip) = GREEK for “defender”
Philippos (Philip) = GREEK for “one who loves the horse”
Alexandros (Alexander) = GREEK for “the protector of man”
Bucephalus (Alexander’s beloved horse with a large head)= GREEK for "ox-like head "
Aristotle (Alexander’s teacher) = GREEK for “the best and perfect one”
Thessaloniki = GREEK for “victory over the Thessalians”
Countless historians and other scholars have written extensively about the Greekness of Macedonia. Henry Morgenthau served in Constantinople as US Ambassador (1913-16), served as Vice President of the Relief Committee for the Middle East (1919-21). He was appointed by the League of Nations and served as President of the Greek Refugee Settlement Committee (1923-28) and is known as a most reliable source of historical facts. In 1929 (please note that this was 15 years before the start of the campaign of distortion, stealing and absorption of the Greek history and ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians by Tito’s propagandists) Henry Morgenthau published his book “I was sent to Athens”, in which he writes:
“Soon after Athens had reached the height of its glory under Pericles in the Fifth Century, B. C., and had started on its decline, the rise of Macedon under Philip carried Greek influence into new regions. The glory of Athens had been based upon sea power, but the conquests of Macedon were the work of land armies— Philip invented the invincible phalanx. Upon Philip’s death his son, Alexander the Great, set forth to conquer the whole of the then known world, and as that world in his day lay to the east, his marches were in that direction. In a few years he had overrun the fertile plains and opulent cities of Asia Minor, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Persia, and had carried his conquests to the gates of Delhi. In all the cities in the intervening countries he left large garrisons of Greek soldiers. In many of these countries he founded flourishing new cities. In every place his soldiers were followed by large colonies of Greek civilians. The result was that the whole of western Asia, and of what we call the Near East, including Asia Minor Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Babylonia, Mesopotamia, Persia, and northwestern India, was saturated with the Greek influence and with Greek colonies.”
“The imagination of these conquered peoples was dazzled by the introduction of Greek art, literature, philosophy, and public works. Though the successors of Alexander were unable to maintain the political control of the lands he conquered, and though successive waves of Roman, Arabian, and Tartar conquests swept over these lands in succeeding centuries, none of the later conquerors has been able wholly to eradicate the influence of Greek culture, nor to exterminate that element of population which was of Greek blood.”
“….The Greek War of Independence, which came to a successful conclusion in 1832, affected less than one half of the Greeks in the Turkish Empire. It did not bring freedom to the Greeks of Macedonia and Thrace, of Crete and the Aegean Islands, nor to the more than two million Greeks in Asia Minor and Constantinople.”
If the entire region of The FYROM were from ancient Macedonia they would have some legitimate claim for The FYROM to be called Macedonia. But it is not. Over 90% of the ancient Macedonian area is outside of The FYROM’s borders and less than 1/5 of its own land within its borders is from the ancient Macedonian area. The FYROM is clearly mostly a Slavic region.
If a vast majority of the inhabitants in The FYROM were Greeks, they would have some legitimate claim to have this country named Macedonia. But they are not. The Greek inhabitants in The FYROM are a small minority.
So where does their claim for The FYROM to be called Macedonia in any form comes from? There is no valid reason, which is based on truth for this country to have any form of a name that contains “Macedonia” in it.
Presently, internal strife between the various minorities within The FYROM, has placed the country on the verge of collapse. Albania (since about 1/4 of The FYROM territory is ethnically Albanian) and Bulgaria are anxiously waiting on the sidelines for this to happen to quickly rush in and grab a piece of it. On the other hand, Greece maintains a position of a staunch supporter for the survival of this country. Isn’t it ironic that The FYROM continues to slap Greece, its one and only friend of the region, in the face with the “Macedonian Name Issue”?
I would think, though, that changing their name back to “VARDARSKA” such as "VARDARSKA REPUBLIKA " or “REPUBLIKA VARDAR” would serve as a unifying force for the various factions within its borders, would eliminate the name controversy with its neighbors, and would put them on the road to their proper identity, ethnicity, heritage and most of all dignity.
That’s pretty much exact - it referred to those who couldn’t speak Greek, because their language sounded rather like “BarBarBarBarBar” to the Greeks - hence Barbarian.[/quote]
this’ll proove u BOTH WRONG 
Macedonian = GREEK for “the tall one”
Amyntas (father of Philip) = GREEK for “defender”
Philippos (Philip) = GREEK for “one who loves the horse”
Alexandros (Alexander) = GREEK for “the protector of man”
Bucephalus (Alexander’s beloved horse with a large head)= GREEK for "ox-like head "
Aristotle (Alexander’s teacher) = GREEK for “the best and perfect one”
Thessaloniki = GREEK for “victory over the Thessalians”
I’m not sure our friend with the umlaut has got the point
The Faroe Islands should belong to Britain cos they’re closer to it than Denmark who owns them, so they’re on our continental shelf so they’re ours under the 1958 Geneva convention of sea, even though that doesn’t say anything like it and if you hit reply then the FAROES ARE BRITISH.
Why Macedonia is Macedonia,greece is greece .
in-correct, Macedonia IS Greece
Macedonia is a state of Greece, always was (even 3000 yrs ago) ALWAYS will be
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Totally pointless statement.
Lands change hands and change names.
On a different thread there was an argument about whether certain territories were discovered by a Spaniard or a Dutchman.
Well, since at the time in question, Spain ruled what’s now Holland, it was irrelevant.
Nowhere has always belonged to anywhere else.
IIRC what we now call Greece was a collection of generally warring city states around 3000 years ago, not a nation at all.
Whats the whole point of the question?
What was Greece before the Greeks?
Terribly sorry old chap, didn’t realise that being psychic had become a condition of membership since 29 Jul 05.
Interesting, do you have a link please ?
That’s pretty much exact - it referred to those who couldn’t speak Greek, because their language sounded rather like “BarBarBarBarBar” to the Greeks - hence Barbarian.[/quote]
this’ll proove u BOTH WRONG
Macedonian = GREEK for “the tall one”
Amyntas (father of Philip) = GREEK for “defender”
Philippos (Philip) = GREEK for “one who loves the horse”
Alexandros (Alexander) = GREEK for “the protector of man”
Bucephalus (Alexander’s beloved horse with a large head)= GREEK for "ox-like head "
Aristotle (Alexander’s teacher) = GREEK for “the best and perfect one”
Thessaloniki = GREEK for “victory over the Thessalians”[/quote]
I hope I’m not coming across as obtuse Min, but I don’t quite see where the proof lies in your post.
Care to explain a little chum ?
Whats the whole point of the question?
What was Greece before the Greeks?[/quote]
wrong question 
,you should we asking what the world was before the Greeks
Terribly sorry old chap, didn’t realise that being psychic had become a condition of membership since 29 Jul 05.
Interesting, do you have a link please ?[/quote]
http://forums.greekcity.com.au/index.php?showtopic=9303
That’s pretty much exact - it referred to those who couldn’t speak Greek, because their language sounded rather like “BarBarBarBarBar” to the Greeks - hence Barbarian.[/quote]
this’ll proove u BOTH WRONG
Macedonian = GREEK for “the tall one”
Amyntas (father of Philip) = GREEK for “defender”
Philippos (Philip) = GREEK for “one who loves the horse”
Alexandros (Alexander) = GREEK for “the protector of man”
Bucephalus (Alexander’s beloved horse with a large head)= GREEK for "ox-like head "
Aristotle (Alexander’s teacher) = GREEK for “the best and perfect one”
Thessaloniki = GREEK for “victory over the Thessalians”[/quote]
I hope I’m not coming across as obtuse Min, but I don’t quite see where the proof lies in your post.
Care to explain a little chum ?[/quote]
well when you go to Church for alot of you’re life where they use nothing but Ancient and Classical Greeks you pick up words, and also since i speak fluent Greek and some words remain the same from Ancient Greek u’ll know, and if u dont believe me on the meanings, do some research not that the meanings that i gave you would change
Does all this mumbo jumbo have a point?
Also, please inform me when the Greek state came into being?
1833, King Otto of Bavaria is installed as 1st Greek King.
So Greece as a nation state (as opposed to a collection of city states) has only existed since then?
I think you will find that the Greeks - That is the “classical” inhabitants of the assorted poleis that made up the classical Greek world, not only on the Greek mainland and islands but on Asia Minor, Italy and Sicily - most emphaticaly did NOT consider the Macedonians to be “true” Greeks. This wasn’t for purely linguistic reasons (although IIRC the Athenian orator Democrates (? could be Demostenes or similar) mocked the Macedonian dialect in his Phillipics) the Greeks generaly considered them uncivilised because of their political structure, customs and location. That the Macedonians spoke a form of Greek was neither here nor there and for that matter neither are the Greek names of Macedonian kings.
Oh and there was a “world” before Greece it’s just that in their pride they would not (will not?) admit it. Egypt, Mesopotamia and Persia had all been going a lot longer than Greece.
Frankly I fail to see why the Greeks (particularly Australian ones - conflict of interest there surely Minimal?) care about the present title of a minor Balkan republic. To claim that FYOM has “only” 10% of the ancient Kingdom of Macedonia is a bit arbitrary, after all Macedonia did bag most of the region (including the Greece) so probably about 100% belonged to Macedonia at some point. Besides naming whole countries after what was originaly a fairly small part s of their territory is nothing new Russia would be a prime example.
What we would seem to have here is yet another example of how good old Mediterranean Pride can build whole planets out of a molehill.
That’s pretty much exact - it referred to those who couldn’t speak Greek, because their language sounded rather like “BarBarBarBarBar” to the Greeks - hence Barbarian.[/quote]
this’ll proove u BOTH WRONG
Macedonian = GREEK for “the tall one”
Amyntas (father of Philip) = GREEK for “defender”
Philippos (Philip) = GREEK for “one who loves the horse”
Alexandros (Alexander) = GREEK for “the protector of man”
Bucephalus (Alexander’s beloved horse with a large head)= GREEK for "ox-like head "
Aristotle (Alexander’s teacher) = GREEK for “the best and perfect one”
Thessaloniki = GREEK for “victory over the Thessalians”[/quote]
I hope I’m not coming across as obtuse Min, but I don’t quite see where the proof lies in your post.
Care to explain a little chum ?[/quote]
well when you go to Church for alot of you’re life where they use nothing but Ancient and Classical Greeks you pick up words, and also since i speak fluent Greek and some words remain the same from Ancient Greek u’ll know, and if u dont believe me on the meanings, do some research not that the meanings that i gave you would change[/quote]
I still don’t see how that disproves what Bladensburg or PDF27 wrote.
I’m not being funny, but could you explain that please ?
Actually, I dont see the reason for bringing this here anyway. Why not leave it on the other forum?
As an Australian why should you bother about a small province half the world away?
As someone else said, its that pride thingy. In my eyes there is no diffrence between the greeks and Turks.
Who cares what people call themselves? I have visited Skopje in Macedonia many times and the people there were always friendly.
As for them being Slavic, whats that got to do with anything? Ive been to Macedonia and Greece, and to be honest cant say I noticed any diffrence in the people.
I suggest you take your arguments to that other forum and we get back to ww2 and military discussions here.