Massacre in Korea

Other Wars Korean War
#81

Nobody is contending that the ROK/South Korean Army did not commit atrocities, they certainly did! In fact, they were fighting a bitter counterinsurgency campaign prior to the invasion of the North. But when the Commission becomes rather obtuse in its use of facts, then it loses credibility. We’re also well aware of incidents such as the No Gun Ri massacre, you (unknowingly) started a thread on it. We’re just running in the circles we did five years ago on this…

And do we really need links on Predator Drone strikes? Can we keep somewhat on topic?

It depend on how to watch. The methods of murder were the same , the scale of violence is controversal in both states. What migh we to know about NK regime INSIDE?Almost nothing. SO haw can you compare the vileness, not using the ideological stamps ?

So, basically we should criticize only open states that have become democracies, have free presses, and admit their past wrong doings while giving one of the main actors in this period a free pass because they restrict everything?

#82

You need to read more on the conflict, because you clearly do not understand the context of how all this took place. There was no central control of “atrocities.” There probably wasn’t any real time knowledge of them as at the time the U.S. Army was just struggling with not being defeated and driven out of the peninsula in some sort of Dunkirk…

I suggest [u]The Korean War[/u] by Max Hastings. It’s a very good, non-American account of the war that pulls no punches and is critical of the U.S. Army…

#83

Oh Nick,you have found it. Thanks , so much of nostalgia…
“Russian terrorist forces”- do you remember our youth?:)Seems you wished to kill me just firve years back…So much changes for such a little time…

And do we really need links on Predator Drone strikes? Can we keep somewhat on topic?

And what was the topic, i’ve forgot? Oh yeah, the firebombings. So how do you think is the drone capable to create a little firestorm?:wink:

So, basically we should criticize only open states that have become democracies, have free presses, and admit their past wrong doings while giving one of the main actors in this period a free pass because they restrict everything?

Yes but what sense to admit someone his past was wrong if he still justifies his nasty actions by the speculative conception and ideological stamps kinda he belong to the “good right side” so every means of war are permissible "? And how actually the “free press” doing if the politically dirty theme of murder of civils in S.Korea was banned for a decades untill the most recent time?

#84

The Associated Press article http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24695113/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/t/thousand-koreans-executed-early-war/#.T93vaVKJ3Ph indicates that American military personnel were present for some of the massacres in 1950. American military reports on the atrocities are mentioned and these might contain more information on what took place.

#85

Yes. :slight_smile: I wanted to poison your vodka, but your physical constitution was far too strong for it! :wink:

And what was the topic, i’ve forgot? Oh yeah, the firebombings. So how do you think is the drone capable to create a little firestorm?:wink:

A bit, but they are far more precise…

Yes but what sense to admit someone his past was wrong if he still justifies his nasty actions by the speculative conception and ideological stamps kinda he belong to the “good right side” so every means of war are permissible "? And how actually the “free press” doing if the politically dirty theme of murder of civils in S.Korea was banned for a decades untill the most recent time?

They killings were common knowledge, and I’ve criticized the South Korean gov’t here as well and said they were initially not democratic and reforms only really began to take hold in the late 1970s-80s…

#86

Um, yes, read the link to the other thread (where this is all going). There are several links to the original AP story and resulting Pentagon investigation which minimized the tragedy/massacre…

#87

Yes the right for food is the primary one. But who bet this may happend only in Korea?
In the Phillipines up to 15% of population have nothign to eat.
According the Feeding america

n 2010, 48.8 million Americans lived in food insecure households, 32.6 million adults and 16.2 million children.
In 2010, 14.5 percent of households (17.2 million households) were food insecure.
In 2010, 5.4 percent of households (6.4 million households) experienced very low food security.
In 2010, households with children reported food insecurity at a significantly higher rate than those without children, 20.2 percent compared to 11.7 percent

Almost 50 mln of Americans have a problems with food supply. This is in the most, as supposed,richest country of world. Whose economical management is portrayed as most professional one. Doesn’t look it strange that domestic politicans tied the hunger in Korea with political regime and mamagement?

#88

Um, Chevan. I’ve read reports of emaciated corpses lying in North Korean streets for hours before being picked up. It’s not the same. I agree there are problems with the way things are and with food supplies overall, but there are programs and charities here in the U.S. which prevent any sort of mass starvation. It’s a faulty logical comparison. And the United States hasn’t been in the Philippines for over 20 years IIRC…

The North Korean famine, known as the Arduous March (Chosŏn’gŭl: 고난의 행군) in North Korea, was a famine that occurred in North Korea from 1994 to 1998.[5] Estimates of the death toll vary widely. Out of a total population of approximately 22 million, somewhere between 800,000 and 3,500,000 people died from starvation or hunger-related illnesses, with the deaths peaking in 1997.[6]

From: Wikipedia North Korean Famine entry.

#89

Next time choose an another type of poison for racial russian. I drink vodka from my birth :wink:

A bit, but they are far more precise…

Still not so precise to hit the enemy instead if allies:)

#90

You escape the starvation coz the USA is not in economical blocade and can free import the food. In percentage the american budget spends for feeding of poorest( social programs) even less then Korea.

And the United States hasn’t been in the Philippines for over 20 years IIRC…

I use the phillipines not coz there were the USA. There a a lot of places around the globe even with the pro-democratice regimes when the famine is a serious threat .

#91

The (North) Korean People’s Army crossed the 38th Parallel into South Korean territory - initiating the Korean War - on 25 June, 1950, 62 years ago today. Best regards, JR.

#92

Yeah, hardly they suspected in 1950 how many states will be involved into that war of korean henocide.

#93

I apologize for not replying more quickly. Don’t people feel that the U.S. and other countries aiding the South Koreans had a moral obligation to pressure them to stop massacres of leftists/suspected communist sympathizers/etc. I would think that the countries helping the South Koreans would have been in a position to pressure them to change some of their more outrageous behaviors.

#94

Do people have any opinions as to how much the American public knew about the villainy of the South Koreans? I would have guessed that the public might have been very disenchanted with many of the things the South Koreans were doing and might have demanded the government stop providing them with aid.

#95

Ideally, yes. But rapid advances creating chaotic situations where one side is completely outgunned are hardly conducive to well-thought out policies, nor do I think there was much real time reporting focusing on the actions of individual police and military units carrying out shootings while in full retreat as it was assumed–correctly–that the North Koreans were also conducting their own massacres. I think the U.S. was more concerned about preventing a massacre of the members of a sovereign gov’t and its supporters being overrun by an aggressor. The U.S. and U.N. did have a very tenuous relationship with ROK leader Syngmon Rhee by the end of the war, and much of it was over his policies in general and his wish to continue the war…

“Villainy” of which “South Koreans?” Were they all villains? Were they anymore villains than Poles, who were also the victims of an aggressive war? Incidentally, it’s often stated that few Americans could have even found Korea on a map in 1950! The Soviet Union and China had no problem supporting sociopathic “villains” in North Korea, to the extent they armed them and created their ability to offensively launch wars of aggression whereas the South was largely armed with very light weapons and mainly comprised to fight guerrillas…

#96

It might help put Picasso’s work in perspective - at the time of the Korean War he was a staunch Communist. He would have been influenced by Communist Propaganda and the N. Koreans were Communist. It would be normal for him to be anti US and use his work to reflect his feelings.

There are “protest” groups that base their “releases” entirely on N. Korean Propaganda and their antithesis towards Governments, especially the US Government. This was true of the VN War also.

It has been 20yrs since I was active in intelligence matters on the Korean Peninsula but as there are many examples of what the N. Koreans put out in their Korean War museum. The tour guide tells all people that American Soldiers, as a matter of routine, cut the fetus out of pregnant women an ate them!

This is only one example of what the N. Korean people are taught about the US and the rest of the world.
N. Koreans believe this bull because they have no other source of information, these “Protest Groups” believe it because they want to and it fits their agenda (and, of course, they are fools).

Political (and Religious) groups here in the US use the same tactics - and people believe what they want and they are too laze to actually research an issue. It is much easier to let someone else tell you what you want to hear.

#97

I have no idea as to whether Picasso was a communist or not, but there is communist propaganda, and there are real massacres. The Bodo League Massacre was indeed a real event and the extrajudicial killings were indeed ordered by South Korean President Syngman Rhee. That is not from communist sources, but is verified by members of the U.S. military and diplomats as well as a sort of “Truth and Reconciliation Commission” of sorts in South Korea. I think the only real contentions were the numbers killed and whether the remains of victims found were only killed by the ROK forces, or if there are also victims of later communist massacres conducted under North Korean occupation that have been mistakenly or purposely lumped into the death toll…

#98

Perhaps if you had replied sooner, you would have seen that you asked this very question already albeit with slightly different wording.

I would like to ask a question as well; to everyone who has replied to this thread: Would you prefer to live in The Democratic Peoples’ Republic of (North) Korea or the Republic of (South) Korea?

#99

It seems to me that the best course of action might have been to demand that the atrocities stop if the South Koreans were to continue receiving aid from the United States. Perhaps they could have made it clear that if they were going to continue such activities the U.S. had a moral obligation to at least not provide them with support.

#100

Is this political choice- i would prefer to live in rising nationalistic Vietnam or China then in corrupt and occuped by US military, puppet regime of so called Repablic of Korea ( aka “democratic”).