Way Gen nice humore 
Thank for the god you not so serious like Panzerknacker. He could simply forbid the theme;)
Thanks a lot for the editing photo.
No, not at all. The âpointâ is that you fixate on all things unpleasantâŚ
Firstly find any my post where i am praising the Putin.
Right after you find my post where Iâm praising Korean massacres or firebombingsâŚ
Iâm trying to find the post where you condemn the âmassacresâ of Chechen civilians. I mean, I know your govât murders journalists that report any negative stories, so it may be tough to find. But Iâm sure youâre aware that itâs a dirty war, right?
I am a little sensitive when you justify the US crimes becouse Stalin did it.
You like a little child Nick.
What about when you fixate on the deaths of a few dozen Koreans, but insult the millions of Jews murdered in WWII?
I think that is infantile indeedâŚ
Secondary the bolshevicks massacre of the people today a widely known and studied.
But we practically nothing know about Korean period.Donât you think so?
We know âpractically nothing?â Cheven, your whole premise is that this is an ignored event. Quite clearly, there has been major media coverage of this event, and the journalists werenât even thrown out a window afterwardâŚ
What i can to change Nick? The situation in Chechnys has stabilised nowadays. There is much safer then it was 3-5 years ago.
Safer for whom? When you kill the native population, I guess itâs pretty safe for the Russians now?
Week ago the federals annihilated the goup of terrorists in in the Osetia border( they prepeared the terrorist attack in the Dagestan).
Well, the Russian terrorist forces got there first I supposeâŚ
But unfortunatelly i could not to say it about Iraq;)
Well, Iraq is one of the few places in the world with a higher death rate for journalists in the world. (Iraq is #1 in this regard, Russia is third. Congratulations on your âdemocracy!â)
It seems mate you prefere to give the advises to me instead of fixation on things which you can actually change.
No. I actually criticize my govât. Didnât you read my posts at the RothArmy?
Was it far from Germans or not is controversial question.
No, but it is an absurd oneâŚ
You know Nick mass killing the people who were âsuspected in somethingâ is very simular as the Bolshevik terror in 1918-22 and Nazy races purge in Germany till the WW2.
Then compare them side by side. Give us an example of a Bolshevik terror pogrom or a Nazi purge, and compare the events, even the worst (and exaggerated I believe) recountings, and youâll see they arenât even close.
I simply use the special KGB-translator, but shhhhhhâŚ
And you have Chechen&Putin benefited from the every time when you do not know what to say about topic of thread âŚ
No, I just wonder why your so fixated on past atrocities when there are so many contemporary ones, many committed by your countryâŚ
Thatâs right Nick.
But as we could to find in the hystory the USA&Co also supported not the
fluffy kittens in S.Korea.
Yes, well Sigmon Rhee and his successors were mostly military junta pricks, but they still built a viable country with a good economy and something that has evolved into a democracy that tolerates dissentâŚ
âŚSomething more than I can say about your country.
The famine in the NKorea, its economic blockade and the constant anty-N.Korean hysteria in western medias this is whole another thread.
Yes, God forbid anyone be âhystericalâ about the vicious DPRK regime(s).
I mean, there so benevolent and tolerant.
BTW Red Air Foces succesfully helped the China in 1946-47.
And the US govât/USAAF helped China from at least 1939-1945, and the US went to War with Japan largely because of China.
As we know today the Chinaâs economic success will eclipse the USA through 15-20 years.
Well, when a country with an autocratic regime controls the world, Iâm sure your life will be much better. Good luck, you may look back at these times with nostalgiaâŚ
The thread which i started tells about soviet air officers who defended the Korea from the firebombing , but not ones who participated in mass killing of prisoners. Feel the difference Nick.
Oh stop being so trite. The Soviets were there to gain combat experience against the USAF, and they were not on some humanitarian mission. You really think Stalin gave a damn about North Koreans being bombed?
They provided tactical air support to, and attempted fighter air superiority for, the the N Koreans, who started the whole thing as a war of aggressionâŚ
Oh, and by the way, as I have repeatedly stated, at no time were the Koreans killed by US troops âprisoners.â They were never captured, nor were they in custody of US forces. They were killed at a standoff distance.
A point you seem to miss (repeatedly).
to Nickdfresh:
Sorry to cut in. May I just drop a quick comment.
What about when you fixate on the deaths of a few dozen Koreans, but insult the millions of Jews murdered in WWII?
I think you are very wrong if you think that Chevan wants or even intends to insult the memory of the jewish victims of the WW2.
He just merely points out that, though the destiny of the jews was unique in its own right, was not the center of that great tragedy that we call WW2.
The Holocaust was one of the worst chapters during the war, but not âtheâ worst one, as it is very often presented in the media.
Oh, and by the way, as I have repeatedly stated, at no time were the Koreans killed by US troops âprisoners.â They were never captured, nor were they in custody of US forces. They were killed at a standoff distance.
It is by no means a funny subject, but still⌠ha-ha-ha⌠Your last sentence explains it all.
Oh my god Nick
The whole Korean war was unpleasant .If you think it was something positive in this slaughter - tell us about please. Are the repeated facts of slaugter of civilians by both side must be the pleasure?
Iâm trying to find the post where you condemn the âmassacresâ of Chechen civilians.
Try it hard Nick , becouse the âciviliansâ who explode the people are called the TERRORISTS EVERY WHERE ( even in Iraq;))
I mean, I know your govât murders journalists that report any negative stories, so it may be tough to find. But Iâm sure youâre aware that itâs a dirty war, right?
Oh those conspiracy theories again.
You know the my gov murders the jurnalists - what source of you knowlege?
Well i guess, this is the russian âfifh colunmâ which so lovely in the west nowadays.
So Nick i âknowâ from american fifth column that the 9â11 attack was the work of CIA. And ilso i âknowâ about mass violence of political prisoners in US prisons like in Aby-Grabe. ( Did you see the photos? :D)
And tell me please what the reason is why i must not believe them?
What about when you fixate on the deaths of a few dozen Koreans, but insult the millions of Jews murdered in WWII?
The death of few dozen Koreans till the official war beginning is just small case of mass violence above the civils which led to perish about 1.5 million of people.
BTW this could be compared with jewish Holocaust( becouse the simular cynism and sensless cruelty above the civilians). And i donât see the reason why the millions of victims of Holocaust is more criminal than the slaughter the 1.5 millions of Koreans?
But this is whole another thread.
We know âpractically nothing?â Cheven, your whole premise is that this is an ignored event. Quite clearly, there has been major media coverage of this event, and the journalists werenât even thrown out a window afterwardâŚ
Nevertheless you find nothing about Shuncin massacre. This is proved that insted of attempts to study this problem you try to change the topic. Or maybe you think you know EVERYTHING about it
Safer for whom? When you kill the native population, I guess itâs pretty safe for the Russians now?
Safer for people who live here and for me particulary ( but certanly not for you).
There is not killings of native in Checnia. Youâre wrong Nicki. Theere a lot non-chechen lives in Kavkaz. And they all whant to live in Christian but not in Radical Islamic Kavkaz.
Certainly maybe some heads in Wiashington donât like the peace in Kavkaz, but this is ITS OWN PROBLEMS.
Well, the Russian terrorist forces got there first I supposeâŚ
Dont be a ⌠Nicki.
Well, Iraq is one of the few places in the world with a higher death rate for journalists in the world. (Iraq is #1 in this regard, Russia is third. Congratulations on your âdemocracy!â)
Oh thanks mate you finaly have noticed the Iraq âdemocratyâ is in the âfirstâ place.
Look what could happen if the let the Washington to be the âworld policementâ.
The hight death rate of journalists ( and not only journalists, but bisnessmens, politics ans simple people) was the DIRECT heritage of Eltsyn times of anarchy and crime. And you wrong blaiming this is the guilt of Putin or KGB/FSB.
No. I actually criticize my govât. Didnât you read my posts at the RothArmy?
Yes i did. And i have to conclude you are enough right thinking man in inner american forum. But in here you have change by the strange way into the âpatriotâ.
BTW i/am also critisized my gov early in our forum.
Then compare them side by side. Give us an example of a Bolshevik terror pogrom or a Nazi purge, and compare the events, even the worst (and exaggerated I believe) recountings, and youâll see they arenât even close.
What example do you need Nicki?
The simple search on Wiki gives you a lot of stories when bolshevic killed the people being suspected in âcontr-revolutionary sympathiesâ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror
The first official announcement, published in Izvestiya, âAppeal to the Working Classâ on September 3, 1918 called for the workers to âcrush the hydra of counterrevolution with massive terrorâ. This was followed by the decree âOn Red Terrorâ, issued September 5, 1918 by the Cheka. Casualties in the fall of 1918 exceeded 10,000.
This was the first mass slaugter of bolsheviks. They murderd the russian professors, intelligentsia,clergy and simple people who were âsuspected in the sympatiesâ for the non-communist. Look wery simular to the S.Koreans terror, donât you think?
No, I just wonder why your so fixated on past atrocities when there are so many contemporary ones, many committed by your countryâŚ
How can fixate on atrosities of my country if you deny any facts of atrosities of yourâŚ
If you have to say somehting interesting about it open new thread please.
Yes, well Sigmon Rhee and his successors were mostly military junta pricks, but they still built a viable country with a good economy and something that has evolved into a democracy that tolerates dissentâŚ
There is other oppinion exist also. The USA simply isolated the N.Korea and vise varse the S.Korean got a enourmous investition from the West. If you take the example of China or Vietnam - ( the state which US let the financial investition) this states ( although they still are the COMMUNISTS) could reach even MORE resaults than the S.Korean junta in the economic rise.
So this the pure politic demagogy about âN/Koreans regimeâ which led to famine.
âŚSomething more than I can say about your country.
Donât worry Nicki about my country. You better watch for yoursâŚ
And the US govât/USAAF helped China from at least 1939-1945, and the US went to War with Japan largely because of China.
No, they didnât helped the Communists in China.
They sponsored the Gomindan who losed the civil war. So ONLY Red Army helped the Chinaâs communist to take the power. And watch to the resault.
If once the China will able to cause to fall the dollar - it will a greates show since the cold war ended.
Well, when a country with an autocratic regime controls the world, Iâm sure your life will be much better. Good luck, you may look back at these times with nostalgiaâŚ
Oh yea nostalgia ⌠back to the USSR La lA la
Oh stop being so trite. The Soviets were there to gain combat experience against the USAF, and they were not on some humanitarian mission. You really think Stalin gave a damn about North Koreans being bombed?
Why i cannât to be the trite Nick.
The millions of americans can be the trite , bilieving that the Korean/Vietnam/Iraq slaughters was âin the mane of democratyâ.(And stiil some of them they continie to believe).
They provided tactical air support to, and attempted fighter air superiority for, the the N Koreans, who started the whole thing as a war of aggressionâŚ
And who forced the UN to began the offensive into the deep of N.Korean territory if they were the âvictimsâ. Donât try to tell me thay the S.Korean were not agressive nad were "better " then the communists in its relation to the civilians.
Oh, and by the way, as I have repeatedly stated, at no time were the Koreans killed by US troops âprisoners.â They were never captured, nor were they in custody of US forces. They were killed at a standoff distance.
But they were killed under US officers observation.
A point you seem to miss (repeatedly).
You forgot to add Nick, âon my mind you seem to missâ. Be the more modest my friend.
Cheers.
Rude pic removed, because Iâm sober now.
My understanding is that before and during the Korean War the South Korean regime murdered many citizens suspected of leftist sympathies without any sort of due process. People suspected of being communist sympathizers were often rounded up and killed in large numbers. I believe there were a number of articles on the web in recent years about the discovery of mass graves in Korea containing remains of murdered leftists.
Um, have you actually ever read about the Korean War (aside from the number of articles you believe are on the web)? I donât disagree that the ROK govât committed atrocities, but again youâre lacking specifics and also ignoring the DPRK atrocities which were probably a good deal worseâŚ
Yes, the RVN regime was a pile of corrupt stool, but again, their actions seem rather tame in relation to what took place in Nanking. Also, nether South Korea nor Vietnam ever went about invading Asia hoping for some sort of âProsperityâ zone and both regimes were saddled with wars they did not start and were guilty of the same crimes as their adversaries at worstâŚ
I donât see how atrocities on the part of the other side provide moral justification for the action of the South Vietnamese/South Korean regimes.
Here are some links I found.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1943075,00.html
Hardly it were worse. As states the the South Korean governmentâs Truth and Reconciliation Commission
The 17 investigators of the commissionâs subcommittee on âmass civilian sacrifice,â led by Kim, have been dealing with petitions from more than 7,000 South Koreans, involving some 1,200 alleged incidents â not just mass planned executions, but also 215 cases in which the U.S. military is accused of the indiscriminate killing of South Korean civilians in 1950-51, usually in air attacks.
The commission last year excavated sites at four of an estimated 150 mass graves around the country, recovering the remains of more than 400 people. It has officially confirmed two large-scale executions â at a warehouse in the South Korean county of Cheongwon and at Ulsan on the southeast coast.
This is just cases which lies on a surface, i.e. what thay could to collect due to rare testimonies and discovered graves.
I donât know because Iâm not saying they do. How do the atrocities committed by the South Korean and Vietnamese regimes justify the Imperial Japanese slaughter in China?
Here are some links I found.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1943075,00.html
And?
Um, no. They were well worse. It was the North Koreans who started the war with an act of aggression that killed millions with an army that was designed for offensive mobile warfare and far more powerful than the Southâs. Iâve hardly stated that Syngman Rhee and his bastards were perfect, but please donât misquote the ROK Truth and Reconciliation Commission to justify one of the worse regimes ever to survive for more than a few years. Besides, why donât you quote the North Korean Truth and Reconciliation Commission? Did they all starve to death under a bunch of ****ing tyrants who live like theyâre in the capitalist west?
How exaclty the North Korean tyrants justify the crimes against humanity and war crimes commited in Southern Korea by your mind?Did the korean comission tied those murders with the N.Korean regime?
He was responding to your comment âhardly it were worseâ, which I understood to be a claim that the South Koreans committed worse atrocities than the North Koreans. Thatâs quite a claim, and requires proof - the North were generally considered to be bigger thugs. They certainly murder more dissidents today and have incomparably more in camps.
Well, firstly the âCommissionâ itself is highly controversial in South Korea. If you read the Time article provided by Cojimar, youâll find extensive criticism that the Commission blurred facts of its own and ignored North Korean mass killings and simply blamed any mass graves on the ROK Army or the U.S. with little in the way of facts. Several of the victims families in fact claimed that their ancestors were killed under the North Korean occupation and not by Southern soldiers and that many of the Commissions findings are deeply flawed and biased with a political bent against the Southâs govât. Secondly, you can respond to pdfâs post as even killings of a few hundred, which I probably know well more about than either you or Cojimar, hardly match the vileness of the Northern regimeâŚ
I didnât mind to deny the crimes of N.Korean tyranny - i just pointed out that according what we saw - we have enough proves to conclude that the so called pro-democratic regime might treat OWN population on the very same manner like the worst communist dictatorship.The fact that those uhappy âsuspected leftistsâ were murdered , as implys, in revenge to evil communists - makes the both regimes ( inspite of their ideological diffirences)have to use the same practice of elimination of political opponents.
Thatâs quite a claim, and requires proof - the North were generally considered to be bigger thugs. They certainly murder more dissidents today and have incomparably more in camps.
The generally considered a bigger thugs coz they are YOURs political enemies.The murder of dissidents by the autocratic regimes , friendly to USA, were never a serious trouble when they were needed in COld war.In Mexica where a sort of âpro-american democratyâ the political opponent simply âdissapearesâ . Even the states with regime of racial apartheid like in South Africa for a decades considered as âdemiocratic allyâ agains bigger thugs.It just a political speculation by terms.For the peoples who are killed becouse of their political view - there is no difference which sort regime execute the crime- democratic or tyranny. The resualt the same.
Even if the part of victims were from a hand of fierce communists - we have the photos , declassified by US Army , testify that the mass execution occur under S.korean regime.So the critics of commission canât deny the fact of war crime.Besides the Timeâs criticism is also rater controversal itself - the Comissin also blamed the US troops to be involving of killing of civils. The political antagonism is obvious- but who claims the american troop couldât kill the civils, even accidentally?
Several of the victims families in fact claimed that their ancestors were killed under the North Korean occupation and not by Southern soldiers and that many of the Commissions findings are deeply flawed and biased with a political bent against the Southâs govât.
Probably they biased against SK regime. But is there a democraty or what? Why shell koreans ignore the atrocities of own govenment just basing on controversal political affirms that the NK âmade a worseâ crimes? In USA as i remember the president has been attacked by political opponents for sexual scandal.When Times seems to me try to cover the war crime against civils of politically friendly regime.
Secondly, you can respond to pdfâs post as even killings of a few hundred, which I probably know well more about than either you or Cojimar, hardly match the vileness of the Northern regimeâŚ
It depend on how to watch. The methods of murder were the same , the scale of violence is controversal in both states. What migh we to know about NK regime INSIDE?Almost nothing. SO haw can you compare the vileness, not using the ideological stamps ?
If a country is providing support for a group that engages in terrible atrocities and the country supporting the group is aware of the atrocities yet continues to support them it seems to me that they bear some degree of guilt for the actions that took place.
If Americans knew about the atrocities being committed by the South Koreans donât you think they had a moral obligation to try to intervene and put a stop to what was happening? That seems like a far better option than merely ignoring what was happening or actively trying to cover up the events.
The South Korean government at the time of the Korean War was certainly not a cathedral choir school; and the US attitude to it is open to the characterisation that it constituted a (perfectly understandable) case of supporting âour bastardsâ. Also, while I am not greatly attracted by the practice of trading atrocities in search of justification, I do find it difficult to place anything falling at the door of the South Koreans on the same scale as the ongoing horror of the âCommunistâ Kim dynasty of North Korea, with its record of aggression and near-incredible economic mismanagement - not to mention the little matter of human rights (including the right to eat).
For some reason this thread reminds me of a scene from the US comedy series, MASH, with which I am sure most of us are familiar. The hospital clerk, âRadarâ OâReilly is paying his usual visit to the blood-soaked operating tent to deliver the latest news. One item on this day - âNews from Seoul. Syngman Rhee has been re-elected dictator âŚâ. Sometimes you have to laugh. Otherwise, you would never stop crying âŚ
Best regards, JR.
Nobody contends that South Korea was a truly democratic state in this period. It was a police state but also one must account for the fact that it was under a national emergency and an invasion/civil war it did not startâŚ
n