Montgomery

No, not really. It was a collection of egos and there were pissing contests at times. But Eisenhower was the right man at the right time as he was able keep everyone reasonably happy…

No sorry ,no good readings on tedders,im sure the other members will give you a whole page full.

I’m not shocked…

Why did other allied commenders dislike monty?

For reasons already stated, he could be an arrogant ass that seemed to enjoy pointing out the mistakes of others, while making a few himself. Some very, very major ones…

He was also an excellent field commander that defeated Rommel, finished modernizing British forces and doctrine, and kept casualties reasonably low as not to overtax Britain’s limited supply of military aged men…And he did this with with imposed limitations of a nation that put a premium on the technology aspect of the war and strategic bombing, and left the building of armored vehicles to the Americans and centered their best and brightest personnel in the air war…

I suggest you read his Wiki page, then go to your local library and pick up some books on the Desert War and the Normandy Campaign…

Hey nickdfreash…I dont go to the libary to nerdy for me,i own alot of ww2 books,i suggest you go and get cable tv and get the history channel.
Its got alot of documentries and you dont have to go to the libary.:wink:
P.S Im not having a go at you at all:D

Sorry to disillusion you, but if you base your research on cable and the History channels you’ll come up sorely wanting. I wouldn’t believe anything on there without corroroboration by another source (and that’s the good shows).

A major fault of Auchinleck was his total inability to pick good subordinates, he was also unable to stop a ‘trades union’ mentality from forming within the 8th Army where the various branches would not co-operate with one another. By the time Monty took over Auchinleck had lost the trust of the majority of his officers.

and it is virtually forgotten that it was Auchinleck that won the First Battle of El Alamein

The First Battle Of El Alamein lasted a month, and while the British Commonwealth forces held Rommel, their counter attacks had been costly and unsuccessful ( casualties approximately 13,000, interestingly almost exactly the same number of casualties it took Monty to break the Africa Korps in the second battle Of El Alamein)

nd was able to instill a confidence in his troops .

All the sources I have point to the battle of Alam Halfa as the battle which restored a lot of confidence into the 8th Army. As this was the first battle which they had fought which had gone exactly like their commander said it would.

he lost alot of men becuase he but them into fierce battles but he was still a ok leader

[QUOTE=ptimms;136224]Sorry to disillusion you, but if you base your research on cable and the History channels you’ll come up sorely wanting. I wouldn’t believe anything on there without corroroboration by another source (and that’s the good shows).[/QUOTE
Hey all of the information on the history channel is exactley the same in the ww2 books.Ive checked it out. All the information that comes from History channel comes from historians,historians are well trained and most went to university.history channel was spot on with the ww2 books.:cool:

I have to disagree with that, Nick. One of the major problems with the Eighth Army at the time when Monty took over was one of morale. The soldiers had lost faith in their commanders. Their ‘winning’ general (Richard O’Connor) having been captured, and they had adopted a ‘loosing’ mentality (sweeping generalisation).

One of the complaints of the front line officers of the trenches of WW1 was that the staff were too far back and out of touch with the conditions of their forces. Auchinleck (The Auk) was very aware of this and, when he took command of the Eight Army, he insisted his staff sleep on the ground the same as the forward troops had to do. This is all very well in a junior officer, sharing the hardships of his troops, but an Army commander should be working to improve the lot of his troops, not sharing it. Monty recognised this immediately and addressed the problem. Another factor which limited the success of the Eighth Army, was the interference of Churchill. This was something which Monty would not tolerate, refusing to go on the offensive until his troops were trained and ready.

Naturally, winning generals, like winning politicians, have a number of qualities which make them both good generals and good leaders, charisma not being the least. Some may envy this charisma, while others recognise its value and exploit it.

There is a clip on one of the D-Day ‘docus’ frequently aired on the History Channel etc. where a British veteran relates to Monty’s speach before they go. Something in the vein of “… and good hunting in the fields of France!” to which the teller says “What a load of codswallop”. This may be so, but it was the same codswallop which inspired the Army in North Africa especially as he began to improve their training and conditions, and allow them R&R in Cairo. And, no doubt, he inspired a lot of the junior leaders on D-Day, if not the troops. But for the most part, the troops did like Monty, particularly after the success of El Alamein (as did the British public for decades later, which would not have been the case after the troops had returned home if he had been so disliked). Where the troops at EL Alamein lacked the tactical experience, particularly among the armoured units, they made up for it with fighting spirit (e.g. Kidney Ridge), it didn’t come from nowhere, and it too can be listed as a decisive factor.

Speaking of ‘Others’
One of the winning factors for both Richard O’Connor at Bedda Fomm and the Auk at the First battle of EL Alamein, was their staff planner, Brigadier (acting Major General) Eric ‘Chink’ Dorman Smith. It was said of him that he would draw up ten plans for every operation, three of which were workable and one of which was a winner. If one reads a little in-depth on both the above mentioned operations, the strategy and tactics employed (the command, control, communcations and coordination of forces) and the success of his partnership with the Auk at El Alamein, and the way in which they absolutely trounced the Afrika Korp offensive, then, one can be left in no doubt that he is one of the unsung heroes of the Western Desert Campaign - a very clever chap indeed.

Agree with most, but the above in particular.

And, it had ‘…gone exactly…’ on account of the Allies ability to break the German Enigma codes.

And i must add the History channel found fake WW1 war footage,
and run a program too teach viewers how too spot fake WW1 footage.
They ran the fake footage and points out what too look for,and ran the real footage to point out what too look for.
Its a real history channel,dont let pay tv fool you.:wink:

The British had been reading the German Enigma codes from the start of Rommel’s North African campaign, and most of the battles hadn’t gone the way the British commanders expected or wanted it too.
In fact, one of the major reasons for Rommel’s success in his first offensive, was the fact that the British had been able to read his signals to Berlin, full of complaints about the state of his army, lack of equipment, troublesome Allies (Italians) etc, etc, This lead the British to think that there wouldn’t be an Axis attack in the near future, so when Rommel did attack it took them totally by surprise.

I guess they got their act together, in translating what was useful and worthless intelligence by the time Monty came on the scene, and, of course, Monty would have been aware of the previous cock-ups. Don’t get me wrong. I think Monty both a pukka chap and a pukka general, and wouldn’t want to detract from his achievements. But I tend to ‘try’ to take a balanced view.

Rommel was also able to read dispatches from the US Military Attach’e to Cairo, giving a daily run down on British units, strengths, deployment etc. etc. That was how he was able to keep a step ahead, and it wasn’t until the leak was discovered that things began to go wrong for Rommel.

Incidentally, I used to know a lady that worked at Bletchley Park. She had some wonderful pencil drawings of sail ships which she had copied from ha’penny pieces during the quiet hours on shift.

Aly J,

But I could quote you a hundred mistakes from their programming. Their use of stock footage of Panzers is a F***ing disgrace. Whenever Panzer footage is required out come the King Tigers and Panthers. This is particularly disconcerting in a programme on France 1940 !!

Thats youre opinion ptimms,and i respect it.It is a real channel.
I understand what you saying fake films cause you cant trust WW1 film,even im not going to defend it, or even trust WW1 film.
WW1 is prone with Fake film.
I do trust ww2 film though, it all adds up too me.
But i respect youre opinion.
Cheers;)

When I ws in The IWM Film Archive I asked them why we always see the same old film clips on TV. They explained that the makers simply ask them for say 10 seconds of Panzer footage. They had lots of ‘standard’ sections that they can easily locate. They are rarely told what it is for and thus you get the errors. Whilst I know the UK has a complete record of every foot of film shot by their cameramen I think the German ‘raw’ footage is missing. Nearly all German scenes are taken from their edited weekly cinema footage and thus it is much more limited in scope than the Allied stock. The Grerman 1944-45 film available is around 6 hours in total.

Do you really think that THE German govenment is going to give bad evidience to to the whole world what thet did.
Of cause there not going to give all there ww2 film to media, only the good pionts of there film,even if its only 6 hours.
On the other hand,since uk where the good guys theres no shame on them, of cause they will show all there ww2 film.cheers:cool:

Yes.

After the war Germany faced up to what it had done, which is more than might be said for some of the Allies, and took steps to prevent it happening again.

The German government has no interest in protecting the Nazi regime’s actions from exposure and has no difficulty with acknowledging what is now Germany’s reasonably distant past, as demonstrated by Germany’s approach to Holocaust denial http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=136814#post136814

At the wars end the Germans loaded all their photo Archive on 3 lorries. One was found by US troops, The other two ‘vanished’.
The US eventualy returned their part to the Germans in the 1950’s and the ‘vanished’ trucks never were traced The French ECPA seems to have aquired a substantial number of German photos-it seems they got one truck.

Seems reasonable to me.

But who can truly say who or what he liked or disliked besides himself?

Um do you know what i was talking about?
I was talking about ww2 films [ not movies],you see alot of allied ww2 films and not axis ww2 films.
Meaning german govenment is not protecting nazis ,there probelery protecting the next poor germans to be born.

i think Montgomery was a fine leader. he was a bit of a strutting bantam rooster, but every good general has to have that. He was a heady fellow, who tried to user maneuvere more than slaughter to accomplish a goal .he acted a little superior, but i think that was an illusion he created. a lot of the english boys i met came off that way,
but they werent after getting to know them