Clearly not true! There were plots to assassinate Hitler from the very beginning. There were German officers selecting commandos to storm Hitler’s Berlin offices to kill him. What saved Hitler was the luck he had in the Invasion of France in 1940. There are many what-ifs at work here, but if the Anglo-French Armies had not sprung into Belgium, and managed a mobile counter-attack severing the armored punch after the infantry-lite panzer forces had driven into France from the Ardennes, we may very well have a different history…
Had things not gone as well in the Fall Gelb portion of the operation, Hitler may very well have been overthrown by the Wehrmacht. What finally muted the internal, institutional opposition to Hitler was his initial successes. Nothing more.
I’ll ignore the other silly parts of your post (notably Poland being the kindest nation while committing crimes against Jews), as I have a tendency to write long essays on important issues but your posts don’t warrant such attention, so I’ll just concentrate on your silly figures to challenge your claims.
If Poles saved 90% of the total Jews ‘saved’ from the Holocaust, that’d be about two million people, give or take a few based on numbers such as these http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/jewvicts.html
Which, remarkably, happens to be about four times more than the half million or so Polish Jews who survived the war.
Care to let me know which countries Poland’s great Jew-saving operation extended into to save the other one and a half million Jews to make up your 90%?
There were plots to assasinate Napoleon right after his highly succesfull 1809 campaign, there were plots to assasinate Ceasar for years before they actually did it, it doesnt change the fact that wide public and majority of the figures did love them and no formal opposition existed.
There will always be someone who’s opposed to the leader but :
Those cheering kids are not propaganda, thats the german nation and its fanatical love and belief in their Fuhrer, people opposed to the nazi regime were a tiny minority in the see of cheers and pride that filled every passive nazi supported which comprised most of the nation at the time.
Normally I’d resent being called a Nazi revisionist (well, I might if anyone had made that idiotic accusation before), but in your case it’s a title I’ll wear with pride as it’s been earned by objecting to your nonsense.
Hi Covenanter, I’m still waiting for you to justify collective punishment that extends to pre-teen girls being raped. This attitude seems pretty hate-filled to me.
Indulge me, i have patience to go through your so called essay and pick it apart since i have all the sources and links at hand and its always a pleasure to call out a nazi revisionist.
Read what i wrote again, poles saved 90% of the total of Jews saved from holocaust, not 90% of the jewish population, under the circumstances polish resistance and society did not have capacity to shelter even a fraction of the polish-jewish citizens, yet tens of thousands of Jews were saved, after the war there were more Jews in Poland than in France, Germany, Belgium and the countries of the Benelux combined, that gives you idea of the massive effort the poles undertook to save as many as they could so i’d be carefull in calling us nazi or holocaust supporters.
I explained your misreading but as for the nets there were quite a few, usually Jews were stucked in monasteries, there was also so called angel net which comprised of over sixty thousand families who sheltered their Jewish neighbours in an attempt to transport them to Italy but usually Jews were simply hidden in safehouses across Poland or lived with polish families.
Coicidentally over one hudred thousand poles were murdered for aiding the Jews, entire families, nazi supporter or not you should be carefull when you spit on the graves of my people based on your pop culture view of history.
Ah theres no justification there, i was championing the idea of bombings, the rapes conducted on german girls were inhuman cruelty, nazi or not there are limits even to terror warfare and you wont see me supporting that kind of stuff.
However be aware that the prime reason for those rapes was that your people started a war of extermination and war came home, also your girls still had better than ours, ours were just gassed.
Simply put i will always stand against victimizing german nation of WW2 even if there were crimes commited on german people they followed cause and effect, german actions were the cause.
Edit.
Dropping the polish-gerrie subject, i’ll start a topic on it when ill come up with the way to formulate it so no one gets offended and it’ll be hard with my right wing views, back to the bombings.
I’d love to debate you, but I’m afraid I have to be at a retired gruppenfuhrers’ meeting to discuss what went wrong with all those extermination camps in Poland like Auschwitz and Treblinka and Maidanek that no Poles in those areas knew anything about, it being an old Polish custom to have cattle cars full of Jews heading to such places, so no Poles had to do anything to stop the horrid crimes there while the 100% of Germans supporting Hitler in Germany knew exactly what was going on in Poland and deserved to be bombed for it, and for not doing anything about all the concentration camps they knew about.
My forefathers weren’t in the 716th ID, they were in the 29th and 1st IDs…
[i]Divisional Areas
* 716th Infantry Division (Static) defended the Eastern end of the landing zones, including most of the British and Canadian beaches. This division, as well as the 709th, included Germans who were not considered fit for active duty on the Eastern Front, usually for medical reasons, and various other nationalities such as conscripted Poles and former Soviet prisoners-of-war who had agreed to fight for the Germans rather than endure the harsh conditions of German POW camps.[/i]
I warn you, keep the posts civil, impersonal, and on-topic so what is an otherwise heated topic retains a modicum of discussion and not nationalistic flaming…
Then Nicholas that makes you a liar, while there has been a minuscule number of volksdeutsch and a few units of silesians who were forced into service none of these served in Normandy, the claim that poles were present there… would you care to document it ?[/quote]
I know of two regiments that featured a high percentage of polish citizens generally of ukrainian descent, none of them ever saw active duty, none was ever in France let alone in Normandy so once again i call you a liar untill you can prove me otherwise.
No, not “anyone can edit” Wikipedia since it pretty much contradicts existing sources about silesian and volksdeustch conscription.
Document it? I’ve read no less than three or four books that directly address the subject of Poles that served in German uniform at Normandy. You can argue that most were drafted, and they had little choice in the matter. Or that they were reluctant, less effective and prone to surrender whenever they got the chance. Some may well have even rebelled and killed their German sergeants and lieutenants. Among the more notable, the father of none other than US Army General John Shalikashvili - whose Polish father did indeed fight at Normandy, in the Wehrmacht coastal defense divisions…
But you have absolutely NO credibility in arguing that they weren’t there, in some significant numbers. And I say none of this lightly, since I grew up near the heavily Polish-American suburbs of Buffalo, NY (Cheektowaga, NY was once the largest city of of persons with a Polish last name outside the nation of Poland), and I dated Polish-American girls. They were certainly Americans, but there was an underlying cultural influence that survived even the second or third generations after their grandparents immigration…
Thanks for the personal insult though. You’re act is already getting old I mean, I guess I provided (admittedly Wiki) link supporting what I say? Now I’m a “liar” why? Because you are arguing that “there really weren’t that many Poles fighting for the Germans at Normandy?” Then you’re contradicting your self and back-peddling, that hardly makes me a “liar.” Well, there were more than a few. I never stipulated numbers, and if I am a liar, than you’re quite frankly ignorant and revising history to perpetuate a sham and ignore the more ignominious events that have transpired. The fact is that “Hitler’s willing executioners” and goons were not all Germans, some of his best ones in fact.
And I include the Jews who became Kapos in the Ghettos and Concentration camps in that assessment…
I know of two regiments that featured a high percentage of polish citizens generally of ukrainian descent, none of them ever saw active duty, none was ever in France let alone in Normandy so once again i call you a liar untill you can prove me otherwise.
I already did, posting links that prove otherwise. I’ve a better ideal troll-flamer, why don’t you prove me wrong and actually support some of your ridiculous statements here with actual links…
Edit.
No, not “anyone can edit” Wikipedia since it pretty much contradicts existing sources about silesian and volksdeustch conscription.
A tired argument. Actually, Wiki has a legion of web “bots” and editors that quickly respond to malicious or incompetent editing and now they are even being criticized in some quarters for NOT ALLOWING anybody to freely edit entries, so that argument is only getting weaker. In any case, I obviously never learned this info from Wiki; I learned it from Ambrose and Sir Keegan. Wiki is just a handy, free resource that is, for the most part, accurate and well edited regarding major subjects relating to history.
Feel free to post an order of battle that shows that all defenders at Normandy were pure Germans, and not Russians, Ukrainians, and yes, Poles. I bid you good luck, because I guarantee you’re going to be a fail…
So far you’ve labelled me a blatant liar, an anti-Polish bigot, and a nazi revisionist.
I’m waiting with interest to see what new labels you come up with because now I’ve dared to offer some proof that Poles persecuted Jews.
Your claims about Jews being consistently well treated in Poland are as empty as your assertions about all Germans being enthusiastic supporters of Hitler, as events in Poland between 1919 and 1934 show.
This sometimes confuse me, the so calld ‘double’ standard of law to defeated countries. For example, Donitz was martialed for he conducted a total war in the sea, which was also conducted by Allied, he was then saved by Nimitz.
This supposed not to be happened in the first place, should the victors could drawback awhile assesing themselves before went ahead pursuing the unlawful performance of the defeated generals or leading individuals. Because, it was their duty to served the country in whatever might took to perform that.
I hardly see any Russian leaders sued for their crimes, except crimes against the people of Sovjet Union when they lost their ground to the germans, they were shot on the spot. Or General LeCrerc, after he ordered to shoot his fellow countrymen without trial, who were wearing the SS uniform.
