Why does everyone not just ignore this rather silly troll?
Yea. Shooting into the air to clear the road while under attack is gonna scare the neighbors, so why concern yourself with your life and those of your men? Just let the insurgents kill you so you don’t have to worry abbout scaring the old man in his 1979 Carolla out of your way.
IRONMAN there are people on this forum that have been to war, there are people on this forum that are training to go to war. You are neither, Might I suggest that you know FUCK ALL.
scaring the neighbours increases resentment of the western forces in the region making finding local support and co-operation more difficult for the coalition forces(Vietnam anyone???). You can hand out pets all day long, but if your children are too scared of gunfire to leave the house, you are fighting a loosing battle.
Gunfire is not target specific in who it scares, No one (in a civilian context) feels safer for hearing gunfire therefore if under attack by IED’s there is little point in panicked reactionary shots fired into the sky. you merely consolidate the position of the enemy forces by demonstrating yourself to be aggresive at a time when aggression isnt needed or effective.
An IED is normally remotely triggered therefore firing into the air will not bring an end to the assault/ambush. If the motorcade were under attack by small arms fire then suppressing fire would indeed break off the engagement as the insurgents would be forced to duck into cover, However suppressing fire will be less successful in an attack by improvised devices wired to initiators many hundreds of feet away or mortars fired from mortar bases even further afield.
Student-Scaley and I appear to have incurrd your wrath, is that because you are jealous of us? After all you won little respect from anyone for being world Quack chamion 3 years running. Is it a problem for you that we are younger than you and have played less hours of computer games than you but that somehow we might (given good fortune and good chance) know more than you about soldiering? We havent scoured the call of duty manual for anecdotes! despite this fact or the fact we havent been to war yet, we are more aware than you of what it might actually might to serve one’s country and be patriotic and steadfast as the moral fibre of our nation? You can flag wave at parades at flame on here all you like about hte grandeur of the American people and the American way of life, but when it all boils down, You havent fought for that have you, You sat at home and watched the wars going on, you stayed at home for the Cold War, you never signed up, you sat in a dark cellar and fiddled with you PC and joystick.
You are bitter at us for having opportunities that you passed up, you are angry with yourself becasue you know that you could have been doing what we are doing, but you didnt, because you were to afraid of actually being called on to fight! GET OVER YOURSELF
You are a sad old man. and a disgrace to the other septics on the site, fortunately they all seem to think you are a cock too. (proud, strutting, noisy, aggresive, etc)
“Carolla?” is that like a corolla? or is it a bit more car like?
“War is not a video game. There is no reload button in Iraq. If the British are counting their bullets, it must be that they are not fighting the real thing. Besides, they are not where the heavy action is, like the US forces. Such thinking is nuts.”
Thankyou for informing us it wasnt a video game with all the call of duty references earlier i was beingnning to get a bit confused. On the map Kursk it is 600 metres from end to end if you ignore the hill in the middle (guys next time you are asked to do your distance estimations on a GRIT remember that one it really helps!!!)
Why is the action heavier around the Yanks? al amarah isnt exactly Butlins! but as has been said earlier we appear to be firing less hosts in the air, I wonder if jsut possibly this lessens the elvel of tension in the region and aids rebuilding, or whether an area with a gunfight every night and huge amounts of ordnance going in helps lead to a situation where life can get back to normal and insurgents have less of a footing due to hte implementation of local law and order. (I am aware this is a chicken egg situation so I do not feel the need to chase it up. IRONMAN please dont grab it like a dog with a bone - the view ahs to be put forth in order to keep it balanced I understand)
I agree with him. You’re nuts, and infected with an anti-American agenda that causes you to lie about what is clearly visible. No comment about the other video where Americans chose not to blow a mosque from the sky eh? No comment?
Bearing in mind the number of users on this site that are from a Brit mil background do you not htink we have heard the sotries from teh horses mouth as it were about hte US in IRAQ? as opposed to the liberal press? We are serving laongside one another it is possible that htese are peoples own opinions not jsut heresay, Opinions formed whilst in theatre, When did you last go to theatre (HMS pinafore was it?)
I officially congratulate the USAF on nobly generous kindly and overwhelmignly considerately chosing not to blow up a revered holy place of worship. it was indeed most kind of you. I should also like to thank the US for walking into a Mosque with a video camera and a 9mil, agreeing that the room was clear and safe before double tapping an injured unarmed man on the floor of the mosque. That too was most beneficial to the feelings of goodwill we are trying to foster in the region and will almost certainly have enoucraged Muslims the world over to see us as a liberating force who should be supported in our bid to remove saddam’s regime and the insurgent problems since) - you referenced a single video in your forming of opinion I merely did the same.
How did a thread about the best WW2 Bomber come to this? I go away for 2 weeks and all iraqi hell breaks loose. I call upon the Mods to sort this out. Im all for debate, but isnt this a WW2 site?
Why dont you start a new thread? Beyond WW2?
don´t worry firefly,this are the normal “in topic” comment :lol:
It’s ridiculous the lengths some of you will go to in your efforsts to put down the US. Let’s recap:
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British soldiers use excessive force, incorrectly aimed fire, and such at times, especially under fire, just like any army in the world.
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US soldiers do not fire wildly and unaimingly as policy or habit
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Anyone who says they do is lying and very much a dirtbag
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“Scaring the neighbors” is not a concern when you are under fire. :lol:
Good Lord. Get you self together. You are going way off the deep end in your anti-American blather. It makes you look like a hate-mongering dufus. Nobody has proven any of the above to be false, because it cannot be proven. It’s simply anti-American blather, and a false perception that British troops asses are squeeky clean, and American troops are wreckless morons.
Suggestion: Stop believing the slanted drivel that you read in your liberal press rags. They have infected your mind, and now you are unable to think for yourself and see the truth. Don’t let others think for you.
1. British soldiers use excessive force, incorrectly aimed fire, and such at times, especially under fire, just like any army in the world You are wrong IRONMAN. It may happen, But it is not a matter of policy and neither has it been for a long time, due to our EXPERIENCE (the thing you DO NOT HAVE) in N.I.
Bloody sunday ask an Irishman, regardless of whether there were snipers in the tower The british used excessive force it bought a hsower of Shite onto the British Military that we are still trying to shrug off. If you dont know about bloody sunday I suggest you read it, Since then it has been hardwired into the British Military to avoid aggressive confrontation in areas with high civilian concentrations.
US soldiers do not fire wildly and unaimingly as policy or habit “The smoke from their guns goes up at a 35 degree angle they stick their weapons out of the sides of the vehicles” etc etc etc you have already mentioned un aimed fire int othe air as a suppresion tactic.
3. Anyone who says they do is lying and very much a dirtbag you said it was a valid suppressing tactic.
“Scaring the neighbors” is not a concern when you are under fire. :lol: Coming under fire is not funny for anyone involved, therefore scaring the neighbours isnt funny it increases resentment toward the “liberating forces” and damages relations with the locals, without the co-operation of the local population you are guaranteed to face increased hostility from the “neutral” civilian poulation.
Northern Ireland was a sever threat to our military and our nation and our civilians, it is not a laugh, we learnt from it consequently our tactics are differnet, not better nor worse than yours.
(I make that laast comment regretfully, I cannot help but think that in a few years time the US will adopt more softly softly catchy monekey approaches to the issues we face in IRAQ but only time will tell)
an irish msn contact told me about it,an injustice!,it make me want to kill the fucking parachutes.
Quick firefighting on the bloody sunday point - it’s a sensitive issue for both sides with an ernormous amount of politics involved. If either side wants to carry on, may I suggest a new thread, or this will go off topic even worse than the norm on this forum.
Let’s not forget that the US military is a bunch of trigger-happy cowboys and the British military is squeeky clean, eh? NOT!!! :lol:
“LONDON - The British army has been killing civilians in areas of southern Iraq that it controls, says a report by Amnesty International.”
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0511-02.htm
The new reports have shattered a myth that some British media had been building up that British forces were acting with far more restraint than U.S. forces and were being more respectful to the Iraqi population. The Amnesty report now points towards shooting of civilians. In several cases it documents letters written by British officers in which they acknowledge that troops killed civilians when there was no apparent threat from the victims to themselves or to others. Among those killed in such firing was an eight-year-old girl and a guest at a wedding celebration, the Amnesty report says. ”Far from being liberated, the people of Iraq continue to live in fear and insecurity,” Amnesty International said. ”Many cases of civilian killings by UK armed forces have not even been investigated,” the Amnesty report says. ”Investigations by the Royal Military Police (RMP) have been secretive, with families given little or no information about their progress.”
Amnesty says that ”instead of the UK armed forces deciding whether to investigate themselves when people are killed, there must be a full, impartial and civilian-led investigation into all allegations of killings by UK troops.”
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Like I told you, your mind is infected by the bullshot you have been reading in your liberal rags. You believe it because you want to and because you are British. Then you mistakenly come here and spout bullshot that US forces are wreckless and British forces count bullets and are not wreckless.
Please, stop your anti-American bullcrap before it bites you on the ass even harder.
Bloody Sunday was a terrible event for all involved. I merely mentioned it to demonstrate the events that have sculpted the British ROE to Insurgent attacks.
Please do not start a Northern Ireland thread to drag this through, I wan merely illustrating to IRONMAN how it is that the British choose to keep their fingers away from triggers when targets cannot be postiively identified. instead of firing willy nilly into the air purely to discharge ammo at an unsen opponent.
Bloody Sunday should be out of bounds for this topic I feel. IRONMAN when you have dredged the Internet and google for Bllody sunday bear in mind several forum memebers may have been to N.I. and that your opinion will almost certainly draw emotive responses.
There are different tactics between our two armies, yours appears to involve more munitions as a solution, Ours involves patience and a more controlled response, that is not a valu laden comment draw your own conclusions.
OMG. The report talks of SEVERAL incidents, not just "Bloody Sunday, you dink. Should I start posting reports about the British cluster bombs that have been klilling cicillians?
What? You don’t want to hear about that either? Figures.
“LONDON - The British army has been killing civilians in areas of southern Iraq that it controls, says a report by Amnesty International.”
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0511-02.htm
The new reports have shattered a myth that some British media had been building up that British forces were acting with far more restraint than U.S. forces and were being more respectful to the Iraqi population.
"The letter is signed by Lieutenant Colonel Ciaran Griffin. It states:
”On the night of 4 August 2003 a patrol from the 1st Battalion The King’s Regiment observed a lot of shooting from the area of Al Majdiyah and believed that there was a dangerous gun battle taking place. They drove to the edge of the village and went in on foot to investigate. The night was very dark, as there was no electricity for street lighting and the moon had set. The patrol encountered two men, who appeared to be armed and a direct threat to their lives, so they opened fire and killed them. "
I think this proves you do not read posts or understand them. You see what you want to see not what has been written that is why I have not bothered to answer your reply.
IRONMAN that report says nothing about bloody sunday, Primarily becaus bloody sunday happened 30 od years ago! Wind your neck in you know FUCK ALL go and choke on a bog otter you felcher.
“Felcher” person of high regard and infinite wisdom respected and appreciated for their value to Humanity (OED) - wouldnt want you to think that was offensive.
No, it proves that all of your anti-American blather is simply bullshot. Put a lid on it dude. You have made yourselves into lying hypocrites who let the British media think for you, and we have seen that they have been lying to create the lies that your feeble mind has swallowed, hook, line, and sinker. :shock:
"British forces used 70 aerial cluster bombs and 2,100 ground-launched cluster shells containing a total of 113,190 bomblets, in the Iraq war. It is the army’s use of its new Israeli-made artillery shells that comes under particular scrutiny in the today’s report.
HRW accuses the Ministry of Defence of breaking a pledge not to use the weapons “in and around Basra”. The report examines the impact of several cluster shell strikes in Basra districts which caused “dozens of casualties”. "
http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=4330&fcategory_desc=Iraqi+Civilian+Casualties
You need to open your eyes and realize that while the US military, and a few idiots therein have done wrong, the British are not innocent, like Amnesty International tells you that the British government has been trying to make it seem.
“British army admits brutalising Iraqi civilians”
“The British army has issued a public apology for brutally beating Iraqi civilians in the town of Majar al Kabir, 120 miles north of Basra.”
any advance on why you thought bloody sunday was an event in the second gulf war IRONMAN, purely because you know, the death of 13 Catholics in the back streets of Belfast would be an interesting accompaniement to the street fights in Fallujah I think you will agree.
CNut
Forget “Bloody Sunday”. That’s only one of many British f*ck-ups, as Amnesty International states.
That report is also horrendously out of date.
An extract (entire para):
Britain has had its own shocking photographs of abuse of prisoners by soldiers. Several of these photographs have been carried in the Daily Mirror newspaper. The Ministry of Defense says it is investigating the authenticity of the photographs.
Ask Piers Morgan (despicable little shit that he is) about the authenticity of those photos. The photos are, without any doubt, forgeries. Morgan was fired and escorted from the Mirror by security without being given time to clear his desk because of those photos. Just the mention of his name makes me angry.
The others - I remember when that report was published. I listened to it being discussed in the House (of Commons, for all you who have not won the first prize in life), when it emerged that the occurences described in the report were already under investigation and in some cases prosecutions were being brought. One of them involves (I believe) Col. (Retd) Tim Collins RIR and the investigation decided that the shooting was entirely reasonable.
I’m not making any statement about US forces here, just making the point that that report doesn’t show the British Army as trigger happy etc etc. The ‘myth’ should remain unshattered by this report, regardless of the ‘myth’s’ overall justification.
[quote=“IRONMAN”]
No, it proves that all of your anti-American blather is simply bullshot. Put a lid on it dude. You have made yourselves into lying hypocrites who let the British media think for you, and we have seen that they have been lying to create the lies that your feeble mind has swallowed, hook, line, and sinker. :shock:[/quote]
I don’t know why but I will try to answer you.
You talk of liberal press and how despicable it is yet you post an article from AI. :roll: One of the incidents that AI talk of has already been posted by Reiver and AI clearly state that they acknowledge them and deal with them.
Reiber wrote
During a wedding celebration, two young men fire celebratory shots into the air. A British patrol happens to be near by, they think they have a couple of Fedayeen shooting at them. Bang bang, the Iraqis are dead.
ironman wrote
British officers in which they acknowledge that troops killed civilians when there was no apparent threat from the victims to themselves or to others. Among those killed in such firing was an eight-year-old girl and a guest at a wedding celebration,
Please point to any statement that I have lied in and I will retract it publicly.
edited to add :roll: