More classic Iron man

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#601

Oh, my - you’ve even managed to get Jan riled up - that took some doing!

And of course real soldiering experience has everything to do with interpretation of what’s going on in a film showing a contact - knowledge of SOPs, drills, what’s acceptable & what isn’t in a firefight, wpns sounds, wpns capabilities etc etc etc which an armchair commando who gets his entire military knowledge from the manual of Call of Duty hasn’t clue about! If any old fool can interpret such a video (such as you seem to claim), why do they bother training professional investigators? They could just hire an armchair commando such as yourself to do the video forensics.

You’d have been wrong if he WERE only shooting into the sky

Is this so difficult to understand - you do not shoot into the air unless attacking aircraft!!! Why can you not grasp this? You’ve had people who’ve been regulars & reserves repeatedly telling you this!

#602

I confess myself to be curious on one particular point.
Ironman has posted opinions as facts, denigrating other posters knowledge on tactics, grenades, and ambush techniques as used by the insurgents, inter alia.
He also dismisses virtually every single news source quoted to him as liberal media propaganda, except of course when it appears to back his own views.
He specifically refers to the British press as such, but previously referred to my source on another thread in the same vein, despite it being from an American newspaper.
He has just dismissed the BBC and CNN in a similar fashion.
So what makes me so curious is this.
Since all the media is liberal crap, and since, by his own admission he has never served, where does all his expertise in ambush techniques and grenade damage come from?
It can’t be from the press or TV (see above) and it isn’t from first hand experience, unlike some of the people he’s arguing with, so where?

#603

I’ve been waiting for an apology from you for calling me a “coward and a poor soldier” a couple of weeks ago. Want me to find it and repost it? You’ve also ignored most of the post that I had to repeat to get any kind of response.

You dodge everything that you can’t answer with the call of duty handbook or by calling someone anti-American (which I’m certainly not, I got on well with the Americans I worked with in Iraq, but then they had the balls to join the military rather than going on the internet to argue with professional soldiers about the military).

#604

So, you are questioning my patriotism by asking me why I am not in the US military service, when you did not support your country going to war. So you are a soldier, but you don’t want to go fight your nation’s wars. You want your desk job, but you wonder why I am not in Iraq with a gun in my hand. Or was it that you were given no choice, but did not want to go fight it? Maybe you did not support the war, but were forced to deploy, but you want to know why I support the war, but did join the military? Maybe you did not suppot the war, but you elected to go shoot insurgents anyway and want to know why I support the war, but do not want to go shoot insurgents

I’m still waiting for the apology for this, Tinwalt. It’s on page 13 of the Foreign Contractors thread, where you spout your usual know nothing opinion (about Gurkhas this time, who you’ve never worked with or been associated with, yet still know how they are treated). You made that post at 03.32 on June 11th, and I’ve not seen an apology yet (despite my request for one). Sounds like a dodge to me.

#605

Oh, there’s gajillions of dodges - once he’s lost an argument he can’t withdraw gracefully like a man; he just hides from the thread, or changes the subject.

#606

There have been a number of documentaries made about the was in Iraq, even though it is still ongoing. I have seen some of them. Also, the news reports of what is happening in Iraq are very frequent. Attacks on convoys are discussed frequently. I don’t see why you are amazed that this subject is constantly discussed in the US. The attacks on convoys are not a new thing. The US troops experienced the same thing in Somalia, where the tactics were often precicely the same - shooting at the convoy all along their route. What’s so astonishing about it all?

#607

Do I assume correctly from your post that you mean to imply that firing back at your attacker from a convoy is somehow unacceptable? You do realize that the British do that too, I hope, when their convoys are attacked. Surely you don’t mean to imply that firing back is not common practice.

Explain if you can how someone having been or being a soldier has anything to do with the fact that soldiers return fire on their attackers from their convoy.

#608

In Somalia one tactic used by the militias, who wanted to get the US out of the country, so that they would have free reign was to bring some mortars into a neighbourhood bordering the American base at night time and lob a few shells into the American compound, then run for it. The American forces, being afraid to use infantry because of the higher risk and the government being afraid of news of dead GIs, sent in helicopter gunships to shell the neighbourhood. Obviously by then the militiamen had long disappeared and the local civilian population, which in the beginning actually welcomed the American troops as liberators from the kat chewing mafiosi militias had to bear the attacks. This obviously didn’t make the people like the Americans and they gradually moved over again to support the local militias, who have then been seen as protecting the civilians from American attacks.

The funny thing is that the Bundeswehr, which operated in a different area of Somalia never had such problems.

I see strong similarities with the handling of the situation in Iraq. “Kicking Ass” and use of technology is not always the right tactic and “shock and awe” wears out after a while (just ask any WW2 generation British or German about the bomb raids and the Blitz).

Jan

Edit for typo

#609

You are owed no apology. Apologize for what? For responding to your insolent comment that I am not a patriot because I am not a soldier? You jest. Now are you saying that there has been no controversy about the pensions paid to Gurkhas being lower than that of British nationals in the British military?

You seem to be blowing hot air, and expecting me to apologize for not laying down to your insulting implication that I am not a patriot becauise I did not join the military. By posting that crap you are insinuating it yet again. Get a grip on yourself.

#610

So you mean to imply that US convoys were not attacked along their routes in Somalia then? That is the flavor of your post, aside from the plainly stated criticism of the US, which is your typical banter in most of your posts, Jan. You seem incapable of discussing anything unless it includes criticism of the US. I find that truly sad.

#611

Good Lord. Such blind, weak, and purposeless insults. Have respect for yourself Jan.

#612

Good Lord, still on tha banter eh? Has it pissed off the locals when British soldiers have shot unarmed Iraqi civilians walking down a treet? I imagin it pissed of some of them quite a bit. What about it LargeBrew? Do you think that pissed them off?

#613

[quote=“IRONMAN”]

Do I assume correctly from your post that you mean to imply that firing back at your attacker from a convoy is somehow unacceptable? You do realize that the British do that too, I hope, when their convoys are attacked. Surely you don’t mean to imply that firing back is not common practice.

Explain if you can how someone having been or being a soldier has anything to do with the fact that soldiers return fire on their attackers from their convoy.[/quote]

No. You can assume from that post that I expect an apology from someone who has never spent a single day in uniform defending their country for calling me a coward and a poor soldier.

Although, why have those soldiers in the convoy gone from firing the rifles to make some noise and scare the car in front out of the way to firing back at their attackers. You’re talking crap mate, those soldiers are doing a Beruit unload from a moving vehicle because they are poor ill-disciplined soldiers who have no idea about the SOP for grenade attack.

#614

The problem is that since Vietnam the “kicking ass” mentality and the belief in superior technology in the US forces has even overruled their own doctrine. I suggest you to read the US Army field manual FM31-16 (Edit: Counterguerilla Operations) from 1967.
And I suggest you to read the manuals on guerilla warfare by Ernesto “Che” Guevara and Mao Zedong.
Then you will understand what went wrong.

Jan

#615

I dont prefess to having a great deal of infantry experience at all. I do confess to having had a military experience though and yes as part of the UK military. I would like to say that ironman should not post on subjects he has no experience of at all unless to garner information. I have a few US infantry type friends who are serving and will endevour to persaude them to come over here.

I would like to add though that a few weeks ago here in the UK there was a documentary shown about a group of US soldiers during their Iraq tour. In this they were shown to have absolutely no regard for the local population. in one scene in convoy in hummers, they were pointing their .50 cal straight at other drivers, had no compunction about either firing shots into the air or even ramming other road users who didnt get out of their way. In another seen, they were dismounted under a fly over and a Mercades came down a slip road about 300-400 yards away, even the cameraman couldnt make out who was in this car. What did the US soldiers do, they opened fire. Some others may have seen this. I can definately tell you one thing, I have served with the UK and other Armies and I know that this type of ROE is not standard practice for anyone else.

You can play COD from morning till night and it wont ever make you a soldier! And you can argue with professional soldiers all day and you still wont be right. I suggest you stick to what you really know best, and you know what that is.

#616

For as long as US society continues to produce the likes of you, Tinwalt, your country is doomed to be hated by the rest of the world.

There are good Americans - indeed, no doubt a majority - but the vocal, ill-informed inbreds like yourself give the world a very poor opinion of that nation.

#617

Apologise for calling me a coward and a poor soldier for disagreeing with Emporor George the Stupid’s crusade (although I have at least been to the desert toilet - have you? Didn’t think so).

I didn’t say there was no controversy about Gurkha pensions - where have I ever said that? Feel free to quote it here if you can find it - and then I’ll post up where I said that I agree that Gurkha pensions are a disgrace and should be sorted out.

Don’t tell me to get a grip on myself, you inbred little fool. You argue constantly with professionals about topics that you clearly don’t have the first clue about. I’m willing to bet good money that you live in your mum and dad’s basement and you’ve never seen a woman naked.

Out

#618

So you’re basing your entire arguament with professional soldiers, some of whom have actually spent 6 months in the sandpit getting shot at/mortared on “a number of documentaries”, “some” of which you have seen? So a couple of hours of videotape (produced by the very “liberal media” you denigrate elsewhere) in some way makes you more of an expert than someone who has been there doing the job for 6 months? You’re either completely incapable of expressing yourself or thinking.

Since you are claiming that your “patriotism” in some way makes you superior to those on this site who have fought for YOUR country (and Iraq is for better or worse a US war) then yes, I think you do owe them an apology.

#619

You blather. You asked me why I did not join the US military, and insinuated that I am a coward for not doing so. Then you try to hound me for an apology for asking you why you are not fighting in Iraq. You are twisted up dudey.

Let us know when British soldiers stop firing back at their attackers so we can ask the US troops to do the same. :lol:

#620

:roll: