Ok ok I’m sorry. But I was basing my statements on the claims of Germans- I haven’t had the time to do my own appraisal. I personally like Romanians and other Balkan people.
dont talk like that, it ofends me and all other croatians, this are the stories about heroism and morale to go on fighting in the circumstances like those.We ,the croatians, where fighting with our allies just like the hungaryians and the roman cavalry units in and around Stalingrad.
Naravno, ja znam. To je rat.
Eto očito onaj rus nezna
decki u redu je pricati na hrvatskom, i to poticati, ali buduci da ovo nije hrvatski forum…onda radije pricajmo na engleskom da svi razumiju
Strina, I (we) don’t negate the heroism and bravery of croatian soldiers, only try to say that battle in stalingrad isn’t battle for croatia… it’s the battle for nazi germany and adolph hitler
Slazem se. The Croats treated Russian prisoners much better according to David Littlejohn.
I find these statements bang out of order considering.
They (the Croat Legion) fought for who they believed would bring freedom from Serb opression and independence from the same…an opression that lasted for about 30 years prior to ww2. The NDH regime was not supported by the majority of Croats. It was installed and controlled by Italians and Germans (mostly Italians) whom we had to endure for a while…also Tito was in fact a Croat and most Croats raised up in arms fighting against Hitler as Partisans…and they were betrayed by that communist regime as well. So, please, be a little more careful of how easily you generalize against an entire people like you have done…its just plain offensive.
On one point I do agree with you however…it doesnt matter how they died, what really matters is how they lived…they fought ernestly and honorably, against all odds, to the bitter end, for a dream of liberty…that is what makes them warriors worthy of recognition.
Besides before they came to Stalingrad this unit was mentioned in an OKW comunique for capturing 5000 Soviets while on the move between Voronezh to Stalingrad as a part of the 6th army…and the Soviets had actually preffered to surrender to fellow slavs rather than germanic agressors due to a much better treatment received than from the latter.
Hi to all !
Red this topic and that was the reason for me to register because I had to reply !
Some of people here are young and don’t and don’t know any thing about Croatian history witch is full of blood as you can see from the pictures.
NDH was a fistic satellite of Nazi Germany ( Know now all good non educated Croatians will attack me)
Well before I continue let me introduce my self I am Croatian and I am living in Croatia (unlike some) I had two member of my family in Ustasa and one on the Russian front.
Well in the beginning Croats wanted there own country, and because UK and allies where kissing the Yugoslavian kings ass in London it was not real expected from them to help us get one. So we turned to the other side witch on that time was Germans so they brought form Italy Pavelic Ante witch started an idea of NDH (Nezavisna Država Hrvatska) in the start all Croatians were behind him and the idea but soo as usual with our luck Pavelic started selling our land he gave half of costal part to Italians and other inland to Germans, to get what som stinky part of Bosnia so of course Croatians in the “forgotten parts “ stud up because we are a brave people and fucked up Germans and Italians well ths ones wher the Partisans (the biggest anti fascist force in occupied territories) The Ustasa regular army where the best of Croats, they are not the fascistic they where fighting for a peace of land to call there own as the Partisans did but the political top with the Sokolari this ones where pure blood sucking cowards.
To back my words Ante Pavelic is the biggest coward in Croatian History for the sol reason when it become tight he left owner 300,000 civilians and army in Austria and took the gold and fled.
Ustasa regulars where brave young boys with brave heart and love for there homeland, only mistake was that they where led by a coward
Hello Guys!
Just got this though while reading about the Stalingrad battles mentioned here:
“Oh, what heroic efort and so many men died over one building !!! Russians are the elite force of any army in which they are recruited.”
Just a thought…
Letting politics motivation aside any other member wich understimate or mock about or make some way of demeaning of an army ( any army) of the ww2 like this:
Really, croatians was the “elite guns meat” of germans ( like italians , romanians and hungarians ) in Stalingrad.
Good boys and universal soldiers, they died for any army and idea who recruited them
…would be “awarded” with some infraction points.
There was no saints in the WW2 no the croats, no the russians , not the germans, not the british, so there is no reason for such comments.
I will not give any infaction to chevan because I did not browse this topic earlier, but you are all warned.
UUhhhhhh… I feel the chill of iron grip of the master…
Just putting the things straight.
Hello!
Were the Croation units formed as volontiers as for example in Denmark, Nederllands, ect?
Or were they forced by Germans to defend Croatian interests almost 2000 km away from the Motherland?
They were forced by germans in the homeland the homedefence brigades(domobrani) were forced by Pavelic.The ustash (an army formed out of the NDH partie like the SS in Germany) were the only volontires.
So those from 369th in Stalingrad were ustash nazies, or who?
And, please, do not mistake “drafting” and “forcing”. If they were “forced” to homedefence as you said, it put question mark on their patriotism, which you would object. So please take a pik, “drafting” or “forcing”.
Well sorry for my mistake it was a draft but you must understand that those were people who were not familiar how to hold a rifle they were mostly people who were working in fields and lived in the countryside.The patriotism that you mentioned was not questiable because when the german 14.army started the advance from Nagykaniza the Jugoslaw army colapsed because it was led by the serbian generals and high oficers who fled immeditly and the only people who stayed and fought were the bosnian and croatian soldiers but still it was insuficient to hold them off because they mostly died confronting tanks .Because of that Pavelic drafted people who never heard what is a MG or a tank.The 369 division were first the volontiers but after the fightings at the DON river the casulties were changed for the people from the DOMOBRAN divisions.
Oh what’s a nice thread i’ve which forget to watch.
Sorry Strina for frankness , but i don’t see the reason to make a heros from the people who fought together with Nazy and killed my countryments. You, the croatians, fought in ALIEN territory for ALIEN army for the ALIEN race’s ideals ( or i’m wrong?)
The question “how” they did - is just last right after - “why” they did it?And the explanation is - they did it just like the hungaryians and the roman cavalry IS NOT JUSTIFY the colloborations with ( and for ) Hitler.
Next step of your logic could be the delight from the Waffen-SS bravery from the Eastern Europe. Who also desperately fought for its lifes ( and they had the INPORTAINT reason - they had the fear of retribution for its crimes above civils population of occuped territories)
Cheers.
Actually you are wrong on multiple issues…the Hungarians, Italians, Checks, Romanians or whathave-you fought as their own countries, soldiers with their own officers, under their own counties command and with their own uniforms and equipment. These croats (from the 369.) were mostly volonteers that fought as a part of a German unit, the 100th Yaeger division (the Croats were at the strength of one single regiment)…their uniforms , weapons and other equipment was German. The regiment was staffed by mostly german officers that were either “pure” German or Croats of German descent…actually all of the legion was comprised mostly like that…all the way down to lowly privates.
They all (the Croatian volonteers from the 369.) went on to fight at the side of who was still percieved to be the ony ally…as in the only ones that promissed an independent Croatia.
This promise was of course a bunch of lies and here’s proof by a non Croatian source
Gen. Maj. F.W. von Mellenthin in his book “Panzer battles” states:
"…Forty-sixth Panzer Corps of second army swept down on Belgrade from the northwest, and made rapid progress against negligable resistance. The Corps was opposed mainly by Croats, who had been so influence by our propaganda that some units mutinied and greeted us as “liberators”. The main body of the 46th Panzer Corps entered Belgrade on 12 April, while another panzer division occupied Zagreb and was received entusiasticallyby the population…
…On 11 April our army headquarters moved into Zagreb, where we found the population well-disposed towards Germany, a fact undoubtedly due to the efficient Imperial-Austrian administration before 1914. Unfortunately our political leaders saw fit to hand this area over to Italy, in deference to Mussolini’s ambitions. The Italians proceeded to set ip a Croatian state entirely dependent on themselves, and soon alienated some of our best friends."
Apparently mister Chevan you have trouble diferrentiating between fighting men and supporters of political parties and or ideas. So lets talk about it, a bit ,so that you may understand us Croats better here opon this subject.
Someone that fought in the Red Army was not automatically a communist…many sources speak of Russian soldiers having distrust, disdain and sometimes even outright hatred towards their own communist regime. That didnt make them deserters, faschists or less of a Russian in any way shape or form…it didnt even make them poor soldiers. Sometimes even your national heroes were indeed people that were cohersed to join the Communist party only for propaganda values.
The same principle goes also to other factions in that and in any other timeframe…so you indeed have many Germans who were never a part of the Nazi party (National Sotialist party of Germany that is). They never liked Hitler and they hated his presumptious behaviour as the GROFAZ. But they stayed in the Wermacht or luftwaffe and fought like praiseworthy soldiers…just like many Russians have on the opposite side.
And so, is it so unbelievable to you that a bunch of Croats like us set asside the ideologies ands propaganda of the time and “make” heroes of men that went on to fight for our Country…men that lived, fought and died honorably?
I put the parenthesis on make because we did not make them heroes…they already were heroes we merely acknowledge their struggles.
In the end I guess we are all entitled to our subjective oppinions but none of us have the right to our own facts.
Yes sorry i didnt want to offend you all you say is very true please except my apologies.
No problems mate , don’t worry i have no insulting fom you couse i know you are the good guy 