what’s the starting bid ?
I’ll throw a few gazillions for young Jane Fonda !
Then you should purchase a copy of Barbarella, and count yourself lucky.
Maybe some of the people.
There seams to be a lot of people that think occidental countries live in a democratic system. It’s more like a class-monarchy, if you think about it. I don’t know about your place, but there is not many plumbers, carpenters or electricians running the goverment. It’s all abour lawyers, doctors, buinessmans, and the like. They have the money, their children have the best schools, so they can be in the system when they grow-up. Not unlike Africa, if you think of it…
What is this heresy - are you some kind of socialist or something of the like? :lol:
Never got around to seeing Barbarella… Any good?
The current version has weathered rather well, according to my weathercock.
Every one a gem! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
So how does the eighth or thereabouts largest economy in the world, being California, end up being run by an Austrian body builder?
So how does the child of a school teacher and a secretary, being Sarah Palin, end up being a contender for Republican nomination for President?
So how does a child from the broken home of an economist and an anthropologist end up, via Indonesia, as the President of the United States of America?
I’m thinking of it.
I can’t see any similarity between any Western nation and the terminal fuckups which typify Africa.
Voter suppression in Florida was largely “proved,” but after the fact, so little could be done about it. What was also proved was the partly largely in charge of Floridian elections–Catherine Harris–was a complete erratic lunatic who never should have been in that position to begin with. She was an embarrassment not only to Florida, but to the GOP in general during her almost comical follow-on election campaign in which she made remarks that were either hysterically funny, or completely scary…
…U.S. politics are what they are, you can watch it all, even study it intently and still not see the essence of it. If you want to really understand them, you’d have to win citizenship, and participate. But one word of advice, if you go about proclaiming "Neo-Con,this or Pansy-Lib,that etc. few will take the time to dialogue with you.
I’ve seen dialogues erupt just because of those very words. I do not however believe that all conservatives are Neo Cons, certainly not in any intellectual sense. But many of the Neo Con attitudes because a plank of the GOP…but I think most would say that the concept of the “Authoritarian conservative” was itself coined by an ex-Nixon administration official as commented on the state of the Republican party in the 2000s, and he also claimed that such attitudes of marginalizing Democrats and liberals, and the stifling of debate and dialogue, was in a way completely antithetical to the true essence of conservatism and that even that patron saint of the modern GOP, Barry Goldwater, would grow to resent the attitudes…
And it’s not “pansy-lib,” it’s “commie-lib.” 
A link to Howard Dean’s thoughts can be found here.
Locally, its Pansy-Lib, as Commie-Lib is considered redundant 
It’s the same down here.
http://www.ranker.com/list/lawyer-associated-us-presidents/reference
After juste a quick research, that’s 26 lawyers right there
( from 50 something presidents, not a bad average).
You see, that’s the problem, put emphasis on the exeptions to proove or disproove something. I try to rely more on facts proven by statistics then ideological assumptions. I understand that what I say is not typical or mainstream thinking but…
What you say is fairly typical of those arguments put forward by various labour and trades union movements, anarchists and reformists for a couple of centuries at least. However, history is littered with stories of people who have challenged the ruling order since recorded history began.
here are some essays regarding modern elitism:
THX I’ll readt it.
well there’s not much in there more than evidences and I don’t want to suscribe.
I never said I invented a new theory, I just said it was not mainstream.
here an extract:
Marxists see political elites as “bad guys” - theoretically, it is because they represent a small portion of the population and are believed to control most of the political power and money.
- and WTF will the marxist do, once they’re in power ?
However, Plato’s Republic offers a different standpoint. In his work, political elites are seen as “good guys” - wise, virtuous, and knowledgeable. It is difficult to define elitism, however. The above definition, first and foremost, deals with financial status. What’s more, Plato’s opinions and definitions of elites are blatantly out of date.
- Blatantly overdated ? Even if I consider myself as “autodidacte”, I once had to endure the stuff… no argument here
Well, perhaps it isn’t mainstream in the States…
Try this fella
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cecil,_3rd_Marquess_of_Salisbury
and these
http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=052156042X
I would recommend this book by John Dunn, I’ve read it several times
Review
"‘Idiosyncratic, brilliant and very original.’ Paul Kennedy ‘Stimulating and deft… an impressive and interesting book.’ Andrew Roberts, Daily Telegraph ‘John Dunn has given us a rare thing: an intellectually aristocratic book written for a profoundly democratic age.’ Sunil Khilnani, Financial Times ‘Dunn wears his erudition lightly and writes clearly and freshly about some of politics’ most venerable questions… Blows a gust of fresh air through the cobwebbed byways of political thought’ John Gray, Independent
Product Description
Why does democracy, both as a word and an idea, linger so large in the political imagination today? John Dunn charts its slow but insistent metamorphosis from its roots in Ancient Greece to its overwhelming triumph in the years since 1945. Setting the People Free is an account of this extraordinary idea and its evolution.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Setting-People-Free-Story-Democracy/dp/1843542110
Also The Proud Tower by barbara Tuchman
“THE LAST government in the Western world to possess all the attributes of aristocracy in working condition took office in England in June of 1895…”
Editorial Reviews
Product Description
“The diplomatic origins, so-called, of the War are only the fever chart of the patient; they do not tell us what caused the fever. To probe for underlying causes and deeper forces one must operate within the framework of a whole society and try to discover what moved the people in it.”
–Barbara W. Tuchman
The fateful quarter-century leading up to the World War I was a time when the world of Privilege still existed in Olympian luxury and the world of Protest was heaving in its pain, its power, and its hate. The age was the climax of a century of the most accelerated rate of change in history, a cataclysmic shaping of destiny.
In The Proud Tower, Barbara Tuchman concentrates on society rather than the state. With an artist’s selectivity, Tuchman bings to vivid life the people, places, and events that shaped the years leading up to the Great War: the Edwardian aristocracy and the end of their reign; the Anarchists of Europe and America, who voiced the protest of the oppressed; Germany, as portrayed through the figure of the self-depicted Hero, Richard Strauss; the sudden gorgeous blaze of Diaghilev’s Russian Ballet and Stravinsky’s music; the Dreyfus Affair; the two Peace Conferences at the Hague; and, finally, the youth, ideals, enthusiasm, and tragedy of Socialism, epitomized in the moment when the heroic Jean Jaurès was shot to death on the night the War began and an epoch ended.
“Tuchman [was] a distinguished historian who [wrote] her books with a rare combination of impeccable scholarship and literary polish. . . . It would be impossible to read The Proud Tower without pleasure and admiration.”
–The New York Times
“Tuchman proved in The Guns of August that she could write better military history than most men. In this sequel, she tells her story with cool wit and warm understanding, eschewing both the sweeping generalizations of a Toynbee and the minute-by-minute simplicisms of a Walter Lord.”
–TimeFrom the Publisher
THE PROUD TOWER by Barbara Tuchman examines the Western World of approximately 100 years ago. Technologically the world was a very different from today, but the strifes between economic groups and among nations bears many similarities to our own time. Tuchman examines the economic, social, political, and technological world of the period 1890-1914. By this period, the United States had become an important player in world affairs. The Haymarket Affair in Chicago fueled the development of international anarchism which led to the assasinations of political figures in Russia, Italy, France and lastly President McKinley in the United States. Tuchman’s unraveling of the the Dreyfus Affair is, in itself, worth the price of the book. In THE PROUD TOWER Tuchman describes the western world that exploded into The Great War (which she describes in THE GUNS OF AUGUST).
http://www.amazon.com/Proud-Tower-Portrait-Before-1890-1914/dp/0345405013
I guess it’snot only in America?
That depends on your tolerance for Jane Fonda. Its light in content, but long on naked Jane. Some parts are even Fellini like, tho the more part of it seems Russ Meyer
I have to agree on this… look at what’s happening right now in Canada : we have
a minority government lead by the conservative party ( in fact, reform party which bought the conservative’s name after they were wiped out with only 2 deputies elected) They rule as they were a majority.
They piss off everybody except alberta because they’re pro-oil. They also don’t believe in climate change, and they use an obscure rule (called abrogation, they need to ask the Queen representative to do so) to close down government so that others can’t ask questions (and possibly get answers). What politicians will do to stay in power ?.. Lie, cheat, start wars, throw balloons, the list is endless… Oh, yeah, they’ll also kiss babys on TV when it’s election time… Speaking of, the last federal election in Canada had the lowest participation rate in history ! No wonder.
I don’t think the perfect goverment system is invented yet.
Many Thanks for the reading list,
I’ll try to get my hands on these. Does The proud Tower has a mention of the Luddites ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite
short extract from wiki
History
The original Luddites claimed to be led by one “King Ludd” (also known as “General Ludd” or “Captain Ludd”) whose signature appears on a “workers’ manifesto” of the time. King Ludd was based on the earlier Ned Ludd, who some believed to have destroyed two large stocking frames in the village of Anstey, Leicestershire in 1779. At that time in England, machine breaking could lead to heavy penalties or even execution, which might have led some to use fictious names for protection.
Research by historian Kevin Binfield[1] is particularly useful in placing the Luddite movement in historical context – as organised action by stockingers had occurred at various times since 1675, and the present action had to be seen in the context of the hardships suffered by the working class during the Napoleonic Wars.
The stocking frame
The movement began in Nottingham in 1811 and spread rapidly throughout England in 1811 and 1812. Many wool and cotton mills were destroyed until the British government suppressed the movement. The Luddites met at night on the moors surrounding the industrial towns, practising drills and manoeuvers, and often enjoyed local support. The main areas of the disturbances were Nottinghamshire in November 1811, followed by the West Riding of Yorkshire in early 1812 and Lancashire from March 1813. Battles between Luddites and the military occurred at Burton’s Mill in Middleton, and at Westhoughton Mill, both in Lancashire. It was rumoured at the time that agents provocateurs employed by the magistrates were involved in provoking the attacks.[citation needed] Magistrates and food merchants were also objects of death threats and attacks by the anonymous King Ludd and his supporters. Some industrialists even had secret chambers constructed in their buildings, which may have been used as hiding places.[2]
“Machine breaking” (industrial sabotage) was subsequently made a capital crime by the Frame Breaking Act (Lord Byron, one of the few prominent defenders of the Luddites, famously spoke out against this legislation), and 17 men were executed after an 1813 trial in York. Many others were transported as prisoners to Australia. At one time, there were more British troops fighting the Luddites than Napoleon I on the Iberian Peninsula.[3] Three Luddites, led by George Mellor, ambushed and assassinated a mill-owner (William Horsfall from Ottiwells Mill in Marsden) at Crosland Moor, Huddersfield, Mellor firing the shot to the groin which would, soon enough, prove fatal. Horsfall had remarked previously that he would “Ride up to his saddle in Luddite blood”. The Luddites responsible were hanged in York, and shortly thereafter “Luddism” waned.
You must be getting old and weathered RS. You’re being way too gentle on the bastards.
digger
Well, the Yanks aren’t as robust as us. 
Are you itching for a fight?
digger:army:
Nah, not with the Yanks.
They’re too well fed and there’s too many of them.
Plus they have very liberal gun laws over there, which tends to keep people in line because you never know when you’re facing a loony with a concealed weapon and a dozen magazines.
(My wife faced a loony with a concealed weapon and a dozen magazines in America some years ago, but he exposed his weapon and then a dozen porn magazines fell out of his overcoat. The police charged him with indecent exposure and littering.)