Operation Rosario. Background and aftermatch.

Other Wars Falklands/Malvinas War
#61

1000y, as I said before the page is not wrote for me so idint take the charges for whole thing.

A very nice photo of a very nice ship.

In the series of mysterious Panzerknacker photos cunningly inserted to make subtle points in Falklands threads, I think this one is meant to demonstrate that:

Mysterius ??, RS why you just made some research before mocking about everything? :rolleyes:

The ship I ve posted is the ARA Cabo San Antonio tank landing ship,it carried armored vehicles the 2 april, so there is no mystery at all.

#62

Not syaing you did write any of the page, but you did write the quote in my post.

Sorry, mate. In some ways it would be much better if the Islanders would cooperate with the Argentine/South American mainland, after all they are close, and it is ironic that had the Argentine Junta just let it be, the Islands today would most likely be all but part of Argentina, with eventual change over of soverignity in practice if not name all but certain.

That was scotched for a good few years by the invasion, likewise due to the Argentine policy of acting like a spoilt, petualant child wrt to the various fishing rights and other deals, agreements and pacts the Islanders have learnt how to live with out the Argentines.

The Islanders are more than capable of making un-biased (by external forces/people) choices. When they feel Argentina is good for them, they will deal more with that country.

The Falkland Islanders, by default, are a very independant lot. And, although you may believe such a small island is supported by a bigger country, they want for nothing. Other than the vast amount of troops on the island.

Whilst the Argentines cut about all beligerant and aggresive (politically if not militarily) then they are never going to get what they want.

Should they just throw in the towel, and say “Do as you will, we will help you let us prove it” they will get a bit further than empty promises of leaving the Islands in peace if they get their hands on them.

WRT the history of the islands, you will find that the Islanders have a very good grasp of the history of the islands. Some are even Argentine by descent, their history is filled with less rhetoric than the Argentine history bandied around how the Falklands are THEIRS!!! with little or no recourse to any other historical fact.

ie the constant believe that the British destroyed the settlement and invaded in 1833.

#63

Not syaing you did write any of the page, but you did write the quote in my post.

Sorry, mate. In some ways it would be much better if the Islanders would cooperate with the Argentine/South American mainland, after all they are close, and it is ironic that had the Argentine Junta just let it be, the Islands today would most likely be all but part of Argentina, with eventual change over of soverignity in practice if not name all but certain.

That was scotched for a good few years by the invasion, likewise due to the Argentine policy of acting like a spoilt, petualant child wrt to the various fishing rights and other deals, agreements and pacts the Islanders have learnt how to live with out the Argentines.

The Islanders are more than capable of making un-biased (by external forces/people) choices. When they feel Argentina is good for them, they will deal more with that country.

The Falkland Islanders, by default, are a very independant lot. And, although you may believe such a small island is supported by a bigger country, they want for nothing. Other than the vast amount of troops on the island.

Whilst the Argentines cut about all beligerant and aggresive (politically if not militarily) then they are never going to get what they want.

Should they just throw in the towel, and say “Do as you will, we will help you let us prove it” they will get a bit further than empty promises of leaving the Islands in peace if they get their hands on them.

WRT the history of the islands, you will find that the Islanders have a very good grasp of the history of the islands. Some are even Argentine by descent, their history is filled with less rhetoric than the Argentine history bandied around how the Falklands are THEIRS!!! with little or no recourse to any other historical fact.

ie the constant believe that the British destroyed the settlement and invaded in 1833.

#64

Well, me old sport, why do I have to do the research on a photo you’ve posted before I mock it?

If it’s so important on 2 April (of whatever year applies), why isn’t it disgorging tanks and troops, or being shelled in the calm shallow waters where it is resting sedately?

Harsh though this may seem, the rest of the world hasn’t been relentlessly combing Jane’s Ships to discover that Argentina has an LST named the ARA Cabo San Antonio.

It’s just an LST. Lots of nations have them.

I wouldn’t get too excited about having one.

It could could hit the bottom in no time.

:smiley:

#65

To be fair Panzerknacker, the picture would have interested me had you put in the information about it.

But as RS points out, I am not going to research it. For a start, I don’t know who owns the thing or what her name is. Researching from just a photo would take years.

By all means put such things in, just bang a bit about them underneath too.

As I have said before, a quick excursion from the topic often keeps the topic fresh and moving and brings information in that may open up other topics.

#66

Not any more, it has been scrapped. They tried to replace it with a modified commercial ship, a deal with France for redundant French warships fell through due to asbestos concerns.

Is it just me, or does any time an awkward fact or question is exposed someone throws a curved ball?

#67

You just have to catch 'em and throw 'em right back, mate.

Or punt them out of the game park :smiley:

#68

A picture that given the actual political situation seems to be taken a 1000 years ago:

Prince Charles lays a wreath at the memorial.

[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial]Wednesday, [SIZE=2]March 10, 1999 Published at 10:03 GMT[/SIZE]


World: Americas

Police tackle prince demo
Riot police in Buenos Aires have used tear gas and water cannon to disperse hundreds of demonstrators angry at the Prince of Wales’ visit to Argentina.

The demonstrators, a mixture of anarchists and communists, were prevented from getting close to a hotel where the prince was attending a dinner hosted by the Argentine President Carlos Menem.
Some carried placards saying “Pirate Prince Go Home” and burned Union Flags.
But their demonstration was swiftly halted and failed to disrupt Prince Charles’ visit in any way.

At least 27 people were arrested when the demonstrators tried to cross a police line.

A joint statement by 10 leftist parties said: “Prince Charles has come to our country to guarantee our submission to British imperialism.”
The prince, in the highest-profile royal visit to Argentina since the 1982 Falklands War, called for reconciliation.

He said he hoped Argentina and the Falkland Islands could live together amicably.
Earlier, in a gesture of reconciliation, the prince placed a wreath before a Buenos Aires memorial honouring the 750 Argentines who lost their lives on the Falkland Islands, known in Argentina as Las Malvinas.
As a bugler played, the prince bowed his head before a polished black granite wall bearing the names of Los Caidos, or the Fallen Ones.
The ceremony echoed the laying of a wreath by President Menem to the 255 British casualties of the war at St Paul’s Cathedral last year.

Speaking at the dinner at the Alvear Palace Hotel, Prince Charles said: “My hope is that the people of modern, democratic Argentina, with their passionate attachment to their national traditions, will in the future be able to live amicably alongside the people of another modern, if rather smaller, democracy lying a few hundred miles off your coast.”
He called for a “spirit of mutual understanding and respect” and said he hoped there would never again be a fear of hostile action.
The prince, who later danced with President Menem’s daughter Zulema, concluded by toasting the Argentine nation in Spanish and received a round of applause.

The prince, a former Royal Navy officer, plans to travel to the Falklands later this week to lay wreaths at the conflict’s major battlefields.
He is following a frantic schedule in Argentina, including a visit to promising young footballers, some of whom are on their way to British clubs such as Manchester United.

The prince will also find time for a game of polo at the Hurlingham Club. Argentina is widely considered to be one of the best polo nations in the world and much attention is being paid to Charles’ game by the Argentine media.
He will also pay a two-day visit to Uruguay.

The Prince of Wales is not the first member of the royal family to visit Argentina since 1982, having been preceded by his brother and Falkands veteran Prince Andrew, the Duke of York, five years ago.
His former wife, Diana, Princess of Wales, also visited the country.

The issue of sovereignty over the South Atlantic islands will not be discussed during the prince’s trip and is presently “set aside” by both countries who are keen to concentrate on other issues like promoting trade. However, Prince Charles’ visit to the islands will be seen by both Argentina and the islanders themselves as a firm reminder that the UK takes its commitment to the Falklands’ sovereignty seriously.
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#69

Panzerknacker, are you a devotee of Zen, Haiku, and the mysterious Oriental arts of obscurity?

I hate to burst your bubble but:

  1. Photographs couldn’t be taken 1,000 years ago.

  2. The only royal Charlie of significance around that time was Charlemagne, who departed this mortal coil in 814. Also, he was a Froggie, not a Pom. And the Falklands were a long way from being attached to Argentina which was a long way from being discovered by Spain, due to the slight impediment of Spain being occupied by the Moors at the time of Charlemagne’s death and even 1,000 years ago.

  3. The picture reflects ‘the actual political situation’. As a particularly stupid politician in my nation said in a phrase which has gone into the language: “Please explain?”.

  4. The dateline on the quoted news article is 1999. Conventional arithmetic suggests that this is a little short of 1,000 years ago.

A cynic might think you were trying to take the piss with 1,000ydstare.

But I don’t, because you’re just pissing around with 1,000 yrs, to no purpose.

Could you post some more pictures of glaciers? They were nice. And made more sense :smiley:

#70

Bubble reconstructed!

Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen) (965–1040) invented the camera obscura and pinhole camera.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_obscura
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinhole_camera

Seriously we did this in school.

Pot this is Kettle color check, over!
These kind of posts are just getting silly. RS please make posts that contribute!

and not just directed at RS …but whats with all this crap posting in here lately.

#71

It is beleived that the Turin Shroud is actually a sort of photograph.

#72

Agreed. But I’m not initiating them.

RS please make posts that contribute!

I did.

I responded to Panzerknakcer’s post.

Directly.

On a number of points.

If there’s a problem, why not go to the source and tell Panzerknacker to make a post that contributes?

#73

I’d respond to that, and to other comments which pre-date the discovery and use of silver-halide etc compositions etc in gelatine etc, but it’d be off-topic unless I had a nice picture of an LST or a glacier.

If I had a photograph of the face of Christ imprinted on an Argentinian LST after colliding with an iceberg containing the real Shroud of Turin, that’d be at least as good as just the ARA Cabo San Antonio stuck on a beach with no faces of anybody on it.

But I don’t have any of that, so I won’t say anything. :smiley:

#74

Argentine visits to Falklands permitted by deal
Independent, The (London), Jul 15, 1999 by Andrew Grice Political Editor
FALKLAND ISLANDERS have reacted warily to yesterday’s lifting of a ban on visits by Argentine citizens. The decision forms part of the first formal agreement between the British and Argentine governments since the 1982 war. Until now, the only Argentines allowed to set foot on the islands have been relatives visiting war graves.

Speaking after the London talks, Robin Cook, the Foreign Secretary, said that the deal was “an historic occasion” which heralded a new era of “co- operation and trust” between the two countries. But Guido di Tella, the Argentine Foreign Minister, admitted the agreement would have no bearing on his country’s claims to sovereignty over the islands. And Falkland councillors, who represented islanders in the talks, said the agreement on access for Argentines would be a “bitter pill to swallow” for some of their fellow residents.

On Sunday, the Argentine flag was burned during a protest by 300 islanders in Port Stanley. But the agreement will bring benefits for the islands, whose isolation was further increased in March when Chile cancelled flights there in protest at Britain’s detention of Augusto Pinochet, the former Chilean dictator

The deal allows flights from Argentina for the first time since the conflict, while the Argentine government has won Chile’s agreement to allow services to the island to resume. Some islanders will be irked by the presence on the first flight of Zulema Menem, daughter of the Argentine president, Carlos Menem, and by the president’s pledge to visit before the end of the year.

Sadly the Argentine flag not only was burned in that year, but also the Goverment ( I dont know if is the Kelper goverment of the British one) did not allowed the argentine flag in the Argentine sematary until today.

I wonder why ? Is a common practice to put the Flag of the fallen soldiers in the burial site.

#75

Well, I’m already under the pump for daring to challenge the relevance of your last post, so there’s nothing to be lost by persisting.

WTF does another eight year old news article have to do with the current position?

Or should we all just pick positions in time that suit us?

Suits me.

Argentina’s claims ended by British occupation.

End of story.

End of thread.

#76

I don’t doubt it.

It’s a basic step in photographic instruction.

Done it myself plenty of times.

The difference is that, while the camera obscura was long known as a viewing or projection device, it wasn’t until much later that the projected image could be captured permanently on film and or paper.

I bet your school didn’t show you how to make film of the early photographic period on paper with egg white, salt, silver nitrate, and gelatine etc.

That’s what I was talking about as a photograph. Nobody did it 1,000 years ago when Panzerknacker related his modern photograph of Prince Charles to whatever obscure point Panzerknacker was trying to make.

P.S. End of thread. Again. :slight_smile:

#77

Interesting 1000yd stare. I was scanning a bunch of old photographs from my father’s estate and came across a single picture of a warship taken sometime in the 30s, most likely somewhere in the Dutch East Indies where my father grew up on a sugar plantation. I looked at every single ship in the Dutch Navy during the 30s and could not find even a close match. So, I sent the scanned photo to a Dutch navy site on line and within 3 days, someone on there not only identified the ship, but sent me scanned photos of the ship under construction. It urned out to not be a Dutch heavy cruiser at all (of which they apparently had none), but a US cruiser of the New Orleans class, most likely the Astoria which called in Indonesia on a shake down cruise in the thirties. I was amazed that people could actually do this. Oh, and it was a stern photo that I have, not a bow shot, LOL. So it can be done, 1000ydstare.

#78

Yes it can be done. Just not by me. :smiley:

#79

Not necessarily how many cemeteries in France flew the Nazi flag over the graves of dead German soldiers after WWII?

It takes time for the wounds to heal, the invasion turned these peoples lives upside down, they had to endure the attentions of your military police intelligence and many of you military did not treat them particularly well. Its not surprising that they might have an adverse reaction to flag waving.

And I don’t suppose it helped when they did allow a visit by former soldiers that they took the opportunity to pull a stunt by raising the Argentine flag to a rousing chorus of the “Malvinas March”.

#80

The Argentines really know how to win Hearts and Minds don’t they!!! :smiley:

The Nazi flag isn’t flown, but the German one is. Although off hand I couldn’t tell you how soon after the war the cemetaries were thus adorned, or even properly marked and maintained!!!

Perhaps, as a start, on a particular day the Argentine flag could be half raised as a sign of respect and rememberence? Perhaps raised, then half lowered, then raised again before being put back in the box? Who would do it though? I am sure the British Garrison could do it, and look after the flag in the meantime.

Points to note though, Panzerknacker. The Falklands War was started by some of your citizens raising your flag on South Georgia. All right we know that didnt start it, but it is seen as the starting point. Hence, there may be a bit of hostility to the raising of the flag, at all, over British territory.