Panzer IV mit vereinfachem turm.
1944 proposal for mounting a “simplified” turret for KwK 40 7,5 cm on panzer iV ausf G. Cant find any data if ever reached prototipe stage.
Thanks for finding this, I hadn’t seen this model before. Actually a decent looking tank.
You re welcome, is amazing to see the several “lines” or “families” of tanks made or proposed by german designers, you got almost a expensive, a medium, and a cheap line of armored fighting vehicles, probably the Porsche designs with thier fancy petrol-electric drives were in the top of cost. However projekts like this last ones (vereinfachtem and Einheitfahrgestell) were quite feasible.
Panzer IV projekt W 1466
Proposal for the definitive Panzer IV by krupp, combination of a sloped armor ausf H hull with the vereinfachtem turm ( simplified) cancelled in July 1944 for unknown reasons, Weight 26.7 tons. Maximum armor 80mm, Other data unknown.
That would have been another good update of the Panzer IV. Since it was the backbone of the armored forces and so many produced, you would think it would be somewhat easy to produce these (not so many factory equipment changes) and cheaper than the Panthers or Tigers. Since we see how well the Allies got by with mass production tanks.
Proposal for the definitive Panzer IV by krupp, combination of a sloped armor ausf H hull with the vereinfachtem turm ( simplified) cancelled in July 1944 for unknown reasons, Weight 26.7 tons. Maximum armor 80mm, Other data unknown.
This should have been the logic response to the T-34. Could have been in production from the winter 1942/43.
I do not know when, but by November 1944 it was decided that production of the Pz IV and III/IV series was to end by mid1945. Perhaps for this reason, there was little enthusiasm for new Pz IV versions at this late date.
(before “Autumn 1944” it was the plan to replace production of the IV chassis with the III/IV, “However, in the autumn of 1944, production of the III/IV was cancelled, and Hitler decreed that facilities thus freed were to be used for 38(t) and 38(d)” )
Some panzer III/IV components were manufactured to the end, in the shape of Hummel and Nashorn.
Generally speaking mostly Hitler orders in regard of armament were not followed with rigorous accuracy.
Typical for Hitler to support heaviest of projects, where the light/medium ones are pure intelligence.
III/IV panzer for example is great design and very useful in a long term.
The leopard (leicht) was a much better road to take than the heavy one.
40 tons for a 50mm gun?!?! 
Why do you think this was?
A flaw when looking at the early years. Hitler insisted on upgunning the panzers for example in the late thirties, were the Inspectorate bureaucracy tended to stick to the default arms at the time. This resulted in a lag once the war broke out.
I’ld go on the one hand for problems of the production gap of the much needed IV’s at the front, while on the other the excess weight, which would blow the 300hp engine. It makes the III/IV by far superior to the Krupp’s new IV.
Speaking of weight: what was the weight of the III/IV? For it looks lighter than a IV H. And bloody “german” IMHO. Quite fond of it. Does it exist in a scale model?
Why do you think this was?
Facts indicate that:
He orderer all the Panzer III should be equipped with 50mm gun by january 1941. Were not
He orderer the Tiger 1 should had a Flak 41 variant for tanks, had not, only the Tiger II got it.
He orderer production of 105 mm self propelled guns in 1941, never existed in that form until 1942 with the sturmhaubitze wich is not a self propelled but an assault gun.
He orderer that the Daimler Benz VK 30.02 tank should be put into series production, was not, the MAN variant choosed instead ( Panther)
He orderer the cease of production of the MP 44 in 1944, wasnt.
etc, etc, etc.
Speaking of weight: what was the weight of the III/IV? For it looks lighter than a IV H. And bloody “german” IMHO. Quite fond of it. Does it exist in a scale model?
More or less the same as project w166, the sloped plate armor in the late saved some weight in spite of its thicker gauge.
Well, wasn’t that the better one?
Think of it: what if Daimler-Benz would have produced a german T-34 instead of the StuG, while MAN would have continued making useless conversions.
More or less the same as project w166, the sloped plate armor in the late saved some weight in spite of its thicker gauge.
I beg to differ. I meant the other way around, you see. The III/IV seems a lot lighter to me than either the w1466 or standrad IV H. It is shorter than a IV AFAIK. The only other serious question I have is whether there would have been enough room for the 300hp engine.
I beg to differ. I meant the other way around, you see. The III/IV seems a lot lighter to me than either the w1466 or standrad IV H. It is shorter than a IV AFAIK. The only other serious question I have is whether there would have been enough room for the 300hp engine
I was not very clear. I was talking about the comparison weight armor ratio, Is not that lighter, Panzer III/IV weights 24 tons, and the W166 26 tons with 50 percent more armor so…the w166 has a better weight to armor relation.
Well, wasn’t that the better one?
It was.
really? interesting. I wonder how. 
I mean: it looks way more heavier… Perhaps the turret is lighter?
On the other hand:
- 26 tons is already extreme overstressing the IV chassis
- III/IV useful in other vehicles (Hummel, Nashorn,…)
- III/IV looks easier to produce
I have no data spcifically on the turret, but probably som, the profile is flater than the usual Panzer IV turret.
Defina the panzer III/IV is easier to manufacture because it didnt use the heavy sloped 80mm armor of the w166 , but aniway there are not so much cost differences and the 50 mm max armor in the III/IV design was completely inadecuate for 1943/44 frontline.
In the end neither the Panzer IV with 80mm frontal armor remainer in prodcution until 1945, the problem with it was the side armor, remained in standar 30mm plate from 1939 to the end.
Schutzenpanzerwagen Neuer art HKp 602 / 603/ 605 / 606
In 1940 and 1941, Demag and Hanomag worked on the development of new semi-tracked carrier that would replace Sd.Kfz.251. The new vehicle was a modified Sd.Kfz.251 with improved running gear, new Maybach HL 45 Z engine with 100hp and new transmission. The new Sd.Kfz.251 - HKp 602 / 603 remained in prototype form only. In 1941, Demag and Hanomag continued their development with HKp 605 and in 1942 with HKp 606. New vehicles featured simplified body, new Maybach HL 50 engine with 180hp and gearbox. Again, only prototypes were produced and entire project was stopped in favour of production of Sd.Kfz.251. The new simplified body design of HKp 606 was used in the development of Sd.Kfz.251 Ausf D body.
HKp 603
Does anyone know the dimensions pf the porsche e-25 panzerjaeger? I tried searching but got no results thus far that are useful.
Length (hull) 5,66m, width 3,41m, height 2,03 (don´t know if it´s hull height or overall height).
It´s very wide for the length, but it´s the only measurement I´ve seen, and in pictures of models it does look pretty “Square” L/B -wise.
Thanks, where did you find the data if you don’t mind?