This is not true, and is an example of failed philosophy:
[/quote]
Im actually interested here. Can you prvide the reason why please ironman?
I think the duality of God is shown in Mithraism?
Editted to add, Im talking off the second quote here.
How anyone can look at our world and it’s moon and not realize that there is a supreme being is mind boggling. Personally, I have met Jesus Christ.
“Knock and the door shall be opened. Seek and you shall find.” it says in the Bible. Those were His words. He meant them too.
I guarentee you, that if anyone sincerely wishes to know if He is real or not, and seeks Him out by conversing with Him, they will be greeted, and will never again doubt that He lives. He made this promise to mankind.
It happened to me once at the age of 18 years. I felt His words in my soul. I was on my knees praying at mid-day with my window open, distraut, and crying my eyes out about something. He told me,
“Rise.”
After sitting up on my bed, for the following several minutes, I felt a calm that cannot be described. Morphine would be the only thing that I can think of that could create such a feeling of placidity and peacfullness. There is even more, but I will not go into it, because the non-believers would ridicule it and say it was impossible.
When something like that happens to you, you never have reason to doubt that He is real and that He hears everything you say. Every word.
What did he look like mate?
Or was it just his voice in your head?
What did he look like?
Great minds :lol:
I couldn’t agree more, nicely said.
I personally believe that you cannot argue about religion. It is based on belief and not science.
I admire those who have a strong faith, I also admire those who do not. If it works for you then fine. Where I would draw the line is having it rammed down my throat and told there is no alternative. There are many religions and no on can say what is the right or wrong one for anybody, be they Christian, Sikh, Muslim or Buddist.
This is not true, and is an example of failed philosophy:
[/quote]
Im actually interested here. Can you prvide the reason why please ironman?
I think the duality of God is shown in Mithraism?
Editted to add, Im talking off the second quote here.[/quote]
Sure. Follow me.
Here is a hypothetica condition that does not really exist:
You have a bunch of people - simple minded beings in comparison to yourself (God). Now, you want for these simple-minded beings to understand that there is great value to good, and to being a good person, and to doing good things. So, you create paradise put them in it. Then you ask them, “Hey you! What do you think of all of this? Is it better than what else there could be that is of lesser value?” They scratch their heads and say, “Well, it seems to be all there is. What do you mean something lesser? What is lesser?”
So then you put them in a place which is troublesome. A place where there is strife, dispair, anger, shame, pain, turmoil, sadness, etc. And you ask them again. This time the response is different: “Oh! Yes, I see what you mean! Heaven surely is wonderful! This place is terrible in comparison!”
If there is no way to qualify the good, then what is bad has no qualifier either, and there will be no understanding of the value of anything in relation to something else. If there is no evil, then there is no way to comprehend how great the good is. This is why God created Satan. Satan is the qualifier; a buffer, a seive. Without seeing that there is bad, you cannot see that there is good. There is nothing by which it can be compared. If you did not know what a bad tasting sandwich is, you would think that all sandwiches tasted great, and you would not appreciate how good a good tasting sandwich is.
Life as a mortal is only a learning ground. Without life as a mortal experiencing the bad of human life, we would not have a valid concept of what heaven, or life eternal with God, could be like.
By the way, humand are more important and more powerful than the angels. This is something that many Christians do not even realize. The Bible states that humans are greater because we believe (in God) without seeing, yet the angels believe because they see him. And this (faith) makes us greater because it is a quality (like the comparison ability I spoke of) which the angels do not posses. They have no reason for faith. They KNOW. man does not know without faith.
So are you saying that God allows evil in order that mortal man can grow in himself and attain a greater understanding of paradise when we get there then?
Which is why I’m always very careful to describe my beliefs as “faith” and “belief” rather than “fact” or “truth” - which usually gets me in some fairly warm water with some of my more evangelical friends. Blindly stating the unverifiable as truth has never struck me as a good way to persuade people of the veracity of your beliefs.
It would seem to me to be more of a way to provide the knowledge of good and evil so that men can use thier free will to decide which they want for the afterlife, rather than a way to help us appreciate heaven once we get there.
It would seem to me to be more of a way to provide the knowledge of good and evil so that men can use thier free will to decide which they want for the afterlife, rather than a way to help us appreciate heaven once we get there.[/quote]
Does it matter if you believe in God, I mean does this alter things at all? If i were a non believer, would it still all be possible?
It would seem to me to be more of a way to provide the knowledge of good and evil so that men can use thier free will to decide which they want for the afterlife, rather than a way to help us appreciate heaven once we get there.[/quote]
Does it matter if you believe in God, I mean does this alter things at all? If i were a non believer, would it still all be possible?[/quote]
Many would say no. But then, you have learned of it haven’t you? Even if you are not a believer, you know of it, right?
Personally, I believe that what someone feels in their heart toward others and how they treat others is a bigger measure of one’s good or evil. but then, I’m just a man. I’m not God.
Although Im not a believer as such and have many friends that are. I do believe that there must be a start, what I mean is that the Big Bang happened, but what happened to cause it? I dont know, but there must have been something?
Great minds :lol:[/quote]
I did not see Him, but I heard things. Audible things. Not sounds in my head. Were they in my head? If a tree falls in the forrest, and there is nobody there to hear it…
On three occasions in close succession. Once in the day, and twice at night in less than 3 days. ON one of those occasions I was praying with my girlfriend. That was the last time it occurred - on the 3rd day. I have wondered all of my adult life why He went out of His way to do this for me. I am certainly not the most pios individual. But then, He is full of lovingkindness. - beyond human comprehension.
EDITED TO ADD:
On the third occasion, my girlfriend heard it too. We were alone at night sitting in my car, praying. It shocked us both. She thought it was the devil trying to trick her. I knew it was someone else, however.
There was one other personally astounding event in which He “spoke” to me. Actually, He used me.
I never go to church. I’m not a good boy. Even though I am a believer. Once when I was 19 or 20 years old, I woke up on a Sunday and had this powerful urge to go to church - something I had not done in years. So, I go to the local Episcopal Church (actually, I’n non-denominational) and I sat next to this little old lady about 77 years old. After the service, we all got up to leave. This sweet old woman, turned to me and said, “What a nice looking young man.” We chatted for a moment, and she told me that her young son had just died from cancer and had suffered with it. She said she was terribly distraut over it. Perhaps it was eroding her faith.
Then, out of the blue, and completely without thinking about it whatsoever, I uttered some words that I know did not come from my own mind -
“You know ma’am, cancer may destroy the body, but it cannot harm the soul.”
Her eyes got as big as plums. She cracked a semi-smile of astonishment, and said, “What did you just say?”
I repeated it to her. She grabbed me by my hand and pulled me over to her elderly friends. “Did you hear what this young man just said? Tell my friends what you just told me!”
So I repeated it again. The expression on her face was one of relief and joy. She realized, because she needed someone else to tell her, that even though her son had suffered and died from cancer, he was happy where he was, and that God did not bring it upon him - that it was only allowed to happen. Her life was changed from despair to relief that day.
As I left the church, I felt almost as astonished as she by what I had said, and that the words did not seem to come from my own mind - that I simply blurted them out unthinkingly. On the way home in my car, I realized something. It hit me like a ton of bricks. I had been used as a messenger that day.
EDITED TO ADD:
Perhaps the reason for these events in my life was so that I could share them with others. Maybe it all was just His way of using me to have something to tell others and spark faith within them? Who knows. I can;t pretend to understand God’s motives. However, I do know this: I have told many people of those events. Maybe that’s a large part of the reason they occured.
One interesting thing I’ve found about the “all morality comes from God” argument is that almost all human societies have come up with similar rules such as “thou shalt not murder/steal/bear false witness” etc. despite having otherwise wildly different religious beliefs.
There are two ways of interpreting this, one is that God tells everyone the same things the other is that the basic rules of morality are either inherently neccessary for humans to form lasting societies or are a direct result of the formation of society. The problem with the God-derived theory is the otherwise divergent nature of the world’s religions and the way that God is apparently happy to see mass slaughter in His name.
There is another consideration. Before Christ dies on the cross, the world was rules by God through law. After Christ, it is ruled by grace. It represents a split in the way God handled mankind.
Consider also, that God played a more personal role in the world prior to Jesus Christ. He revealed himself through burning bushes and voices. He sent angels to kings and gave them charges. He cause major events, such as the destruction of Sodom and Gamorah, the burning of the Great Library of Alexandria, the submergence into the sea of entire civilizations, or their destruction by volcano or meteor. Consider the Tower of Babel. He managed man’s development in a more hands-on manner. He does not do those things anymore, I don’t think. At least, not so boldly and obviously. He has the message delivered by Jesus to give man the understanding that there is a single path to slavation for man.
I think the explaination for why so many cultures have similar philosophies is because of this hands-on approach that God used to have. Before man had become so diverse racially, He surely played a more promient role in the goings-on of mankind.
Personally, I think man is 1 million years old or more, as scientists are now coming to believe. If that is so, imagine how long God has had to poke around in our existance and how ancient some of His dealings with manking might have been. Again, consider the Tower of Babel. Built in a time when civilized man spoke a single language, which God changed by destroying their construction and dispersing mankind.
Have I offended you now with my religious psychobabble? I understand if you find it a bit offenseive. It’s not meant to be.
I didnt know that God destroyed the Library at Alexandria? I thought it was the Romans?
I thought it dropped into the Med during an earthquake like much of the rest of ancient Alexandria?