Should the atomic bombs have been dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Why don’t you see if he is translated into Russian?

In any case, Wiki states this:

Japanese

The Kwantung Army of the Imperial Japanese Army under General Otsuzo Yamada, was the Japanese force opposing them. It was the major part of the Japanese occupation forces in Manchuria and Korea, and it consisted of two Area Armies and three independent armies [7]:

* First Area Army (northeastern Manchukuo), including:
      o 3rd Army.
      o 5th Army.
* Third Area Army (southwestern Manchukuo), including:
      o 30th Army.
      o 44th Army.
* Independent units
      o 4th Army (an independent field army responsible for northern Manchuria)
      o 34th Army (an independent field army responsible for the areas between the Third and Seventeenth Area Armies)
      o Kwangtung Defence Army (responsible for Mengjiang)
      o Seventeenth Area Army (responsible for Korea; assigned to the Kwantung Army in the eleventh hour, to no avail)
* Other forces
      o Japanese Fifth Area Army - responsible for South Sakhalin and the Kuriles

Each Area Army (the equivalent of a Western “army”) had headquarters units and units attached directly to the Area Army, in addition to the field armies (the equivalent of a Western corps). In addition to the Japanese, there was the forty thousand strong Manchukuo Defense Force, composed of eight under-strength, poorly-equipped, poorly-trained Manchukuoan divisions. Korea, which would have been the next target for the Far Eastern Command, was garrisoned by the Seventeenth Area Army.

The Kwantung Army had over six hundred thousand men in twenty-five divisions (including two tank divisions) and six Independent Mixed Brigades. These contained over 1,215 armored vehicles (mostly armored cars and light tanks), 6,700 artillery pieces (mostly light), and 1,800 aircraft (mostly trainers and obsolete types; they only had 50 first line aircraft). The Imperial Japanese Navy contributed nothing to the defense of Manchuria, the occupation of which it had always opposed on strategic grounds.

On economic grounds, Manchuria was worth defending since it had the bulk of usable industry and raw materials outside of Japan and still under Japanese control in 1945. However, the Japanese forces were far below authorized strength, and most of their heavy military equipment and best military units had been transferred to the Pacific front over previous three years. As of 1945, the Japanese army in Manchuria contained a large number of raw recruits. The result was that the Kwantung Army had essentially been reduced to a light infantry counter-insurgency force with limited mobility and experience. In the event, Japanese forces were no match for the mechanized Red Army, with its vastly superior tanks, artillery, officers, and tactics.

Compounding the problem, the Japanese military made numerous mistakes. First, they assumed that any attack coming from the west would have to follow either the old railroad line to Hailar or head in to Solun from the eastern tip of Mongolia. The Soviets did attack from both those routes, but their main attack went through the supposedly impassable Greater Khingan range south of Solun and into the center of Manchuria. Second, the Japanese military intelligence failed to determine how many troops the Soviets were actually transferring to the Siberian front. Their military intelligence predicted, based on erroneous numbers, that an attack was most likely in October of 1945 or in the Spring of 1946.

New plans made by the Japanese in the summer of 1945 called for the borders to be held lightly and delaying actions fought while the main force would hold the southeastern corner in strength (so defending Korea from attack). However, the new plans were not implemented by the time the Soviets launched their attack.

In practice, it was more the opposite.

The two main reasons Japan decided against invading Australia in 1942 were the lack of shipping and not being able to take troops away from China, which was a consequence partly of Japan’s war in China and the USSR posing a threat on the border which Japan had to face with troops.

So, in part, yes, the Soviets helped to save us from invasion by depriving Japan of the troops it needed to invade us.

I expect that saving Australia was the main thing in Stalin’s thinking in facing Japan across the border. :wink: :smiley:

The split was pretty much what happened in Korea a few years later, anyway.

Unfair a-bombing?

You reckon Stalin wouldn’t have dropped one on Berlin if he’d had it before May 1945?

Or perhaps even Japan if he’d had one before the Americans in late 1945?

And did, by sponsoring or supporting various national liberation movements.

Interesting to compare it with China now, which buys UN support, and access to resources, in post-colonial Africa and the post-colonial Pacific by supporting shoddy regimes, such as its recent vote (with Russia) against sanctions against Zimbabwe.

Because the other Asian states freed themselves of European colonialism that was imposed in the previous centuries, partly because of the self-determination principles enshrined in the UN Charter etc and associated attitudes; partly because the Americans were strongly anti-colonialist; partly because the former colonial peoples had seen that the European colonialist could be defeated by Asians (Japan); partly because the end of the war left a power vacuum in most colonies; partly because the movements of national liberation in the former colonies were too strong for the former colonial powers; and partly because the European powers generally lacked the ability and or will to resist or defeat the movements of national liberation.

Japan, on the other hand, did not come under American influence as a colonial power resuming its pre-war dominance but as the vanquished enemy of the US.

Since then, it has suited the dominant interests in Japan (and the US) to have the US back Japan’s strongly anti-communist position to preserve many of the same elements in Japanese society, commerce and politics which took it to war as part of the anti-communist fascist alliance. It ensured that Japan would not be invaded by China or the USSR, which suited Japan and America equally well.

I know it mate.
Moreover we have established it in previous discussion with Rising Sun.
The Kwantung Army was actually redused within 1942-1944. But their “elite” divisions have been sended to the Pacific theater( where most of them died), not at Home islands as you wrote.They were siimply no needed in the Home Islands till 1945, but in the 1945 the Japanse simply can’t withdraw more troops from Manchguria, becouse this region was critically importaint for Japane strategical defence also.
Most of Japane pacific troops have been destroyed so as i wrote, hardly the Home Island have been strengthened. So in fact the garrison of Islands were no more elite and trained than the Kwantung Amry units ones.

What was opposite mate?
The Kwantung Army was against the Liberation of Asia from “White colonialism”, or did not support the ideology of so called “sphere of asian so-prosperity”?

The two main reasons Japan decided against invading Australia in 1942 were the lack of shipping and not being able to take troops away from China, which was a consequence partly of Japan’s war in China and the USSR posing a threat on the border which Japan had to face with troops.

So, in part, yes, the Soviets helped to save us from invasion by depriving Japan of the troops it needed to invade us.

Now you agree that not just America saved you but also China and USSR.
So it wuold be pretty right to say- whatever Soviets did , they did it right becouse it saved your Australia:)And Soviet conscience wouldn’t be troubled in the least:)

I expect that saving Australia was the main thing in Stalin’s thinking in facing Japan across the border. :wink: :smiley:

But , at least, i hope you will not assert that the Entire American war with Japane was exclusively for to save Australia?:wink:

The split was pretty much what happened in Korea a few years later, anyway.

Right, but previously it was in China in 1946.

Unfair a-bombing?

You reckon Stalin wouldn’t have dropped one on Berlin if he’d had it before May 1945?

Or perhaps even Japan if he’d had one before the Americans in late 1945?

Mate did you hear the proverb - IF my grandma had a moustaches , she would be my grandpa ?
This is good mehtod - the brain speculation , but not quite precise.
If Churchill had had the bomb - he also would be ready to drop it in any ear of war since 1939.And probably not just one Germany, but on Japane , Soviets ( till the 1939) and everybody who looks at Britain not with enough great respect :wink:

And did, by sponsoring or supporting various national liberation movements.

Interesting to compare it with China now, which buys UN support, and access to resources, in post-colonial Africa and the post-colonial Pacific by supporting shoddy regimes, such as its recent vote (with Russia) against sanctions against Zimbabwe.

Yes actualy China do whatever they want and nobody even remember today that it was a Stalin who have helped them to be born.
Unlike a Japane who fear everything around, beeing banned to lead the independent policy.
BTW i have not supposed you like a sunctions mate;)
How much the previous sunction agains Suddam finaly had helped to throw him?

Because the other Asian states freed themselves of European colonialism that was imposed in the previous centuries, partly because of the self-determination principles enshrined in the UN Charter etc and associated attitudes; partly because the Americans were strongly anti-colonialist; partly because the former colonial peoples had seen that the European colonialist could be defeated by Asians (Japan); partly because the end of the war left a power vacuum in most colonies; partly because the movements of national liberation in the former colonies were too strong for the former colonial powers; and partly because the European powers generally lacked the ability and or will to resist or defeat the movements of national liberation.

Japan, on the other hand, did not come under American influence as a colonial power resuming its pre-war dominance but as the vanquished enemy of the US.

Since then, it has suited the dominant interests in Japan (and the US) to have the US back Japan’s strongly anti-communist position to preserve many of the same elements in Japanese society, commerce and politics which took it to war as part of the anti-communist fascist alliance. It ensured that Japan would not be invaded by China or the USSR, which suited Japan and America equally well.

Shortly speaking , you are agreed that the USA still controlls and roll the Japane as they wish.
Japane is still subordinated state in their policy ( both inner ans external) , to the contrast with the China and even N Korea where Soviet were in the previous time.

While their strength was gradually waned from 1942 on, I do in fact recall reading that at least one of the better infantry divisions fought on Okinawa…And at least some of the artillery and armor found its way back to Japan…and there was a strategic reserve…

Again, from Wiki:

In March 1945, there was only one combat division in Kyūshū. Over the next four months the Japanese Army transferred forces from Manchuria, Korea, and northern Japan, while raising other forces in place. By August, they had fourteen divisions and various smaller formations, including three tank brigades, for a total of 900,000 men.[19] Although the Japanese were able to raise large numbers of new soldiers, equipping them was more difficult. By August, the Japanese Army had the equivalent of 65 divisions in the homeland but only enough equipment for 40 and only enough ammunition for 30.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall

Pardon my french, but…
[SIZE=“7”]Hell YES!
[SIZE="2]
Many governments claims hundreds of thousands of (GI) lives were spared by the QUICK capitulation of the Japanese government.
The lack of response to the first bomb, resulted in the second. Force the issue.
We can destroy your cities in one shot.

You STILL don’t want to talk?

And, yet, today…
I still wish the genie was in the bottle.

I ponder the up/down sides of nuclear energy, and I’m still trying to find the profit.

Up
CHEAP electricity

Down
No one has figured how to do that yet

UP
NO CARBON EMISSIONS!!!

YAY

Down
emissions for a few tens of thousands of years.
Of a form that will kill you and mutate your children.

Radon Sucks.
Uranium is worse.
Plutonium destroys.

Hydrogen fuses.

We (USA) stole Germany’s best and brightest. We corrupted the rest.
I cannot imagine this world under a german republic achieving fission first,
SEIG HEIL!!!

There is no information in wiki that some of Kwantung Army unit have been moved there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa#Land

The Japanese land campaign (mainly defensive) was conducted by the 67,000-strong (77,000 according to some sources) regular Thirty-Second Army and some 9,000 Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN) troops at Oroku naval base (only a few hundred of whose had been trained and equipped for ground combat), supported by 39,000 drafted local Ryukyuan people (including 24,000 hastily-conscripted rear Home Guard militia called Boeitai and 15,000 non-uniformed laborers). In addition, 1,500 middle school senior boys organized into frontline-service “Iron and Blood Volunteer Units”, while 600 Himeyuri Students where organized into a nursing unit.[3] The 32nd Army initially consisted of the 9th, 24th, and 62nd Divisions, and the 44th Independent Mixed Brigade. The 9th Division was moved to Taiwan prior to the invasion, resulting in shuffling of Japanese defensive plans

So in fact th situation in Okinawa was the simular as in Manchguria. Olny about 60-70% of Japane troops were regular army - the rest was recruited from the ditfferent sorts of units.in 1945 Japanes prefer to recruits the locals instead to withdraw the additional troops fgrom the other critical regions lke Manchguria, Korea and ets.

As it was said since the march of 1945 the Kwantung army was reinforced by the recruits , with no real combat experience- probably some of them have been moved to the Kyushu. Becouse hardly the Japans would remove their last regular reserve in Korea , China and Manchguria.It was their common tacticin last period of war.

In terms of leadership, equipment, and manpower, the Kwantung Army of 1945 certainly was not the same army as it was in 1941.

The Japanese Imperial High Command had transferred most veteran Japanese divisions from Manchuria before the summer of 1945. Hence, most remaining divisions were newly formed from reservists or from cannibalized smaller units. In fact, only the 119th, 107th, 108th, 117th, 63d, and 39th Infantry Divisions had existed before January 1945. Training was limited in all units, and equipment and materiel shortages plagued the Kwantung Army at every level. The Japanese considered none of the Kwantung Army divisions combat ready and some divisions only 15 percent ready.

The Kwantung Army also suffered from a deficiency of weaponry, particularly armor. Tanks carried only 57-mm guns and machine guns.

Some Division/Brigade Strength Relative to a fully outfitted 12th Infantry Division, 1937.

Kwantung Army Units Deployed Against Trans-Baikal Front

119th Division 70%
107th Division 60%
148th Division 15% 148th Division had almost no small arms for its regiments.
125th Division 20%
39th Division 80% lacked artillery weapons.
136th Division 15%
138th Division 15% was in the midst of mobilization and did not exceed 2,000 effectives.

Kwantung Army Units Deployed Against 2d Far Eastern Front

123d Division 15%
149th Division 15% had no artillery.

Kwantung Army Units Deployed Against 1st Far Eastern Front

15th Border Guards Unit [Regt] was authorized twelve infantry companies and three artillery batteries, but its actual strength was four infantry companies and one battery.

128th Division authorized 23,000 men, only 14,000 were available, and they lacked training.
Etc, etc.

The infantry divisions were armed with rifles, machine guns, mortars, and artillery pieces, but had no submachine guns, antitank rifles, or rocket artillery. Antitank capability was provided by a battalion of sixteen 37-mm antitank guns, weapons ineffective against modern World War II medium and heavy tanks.

Aircraft were mostly trainers and obsolete types.

Unquestionably, the cease-fire rumors and the ultimate surrender decision disrupted Japanese operations and forestalled possibly greater Japanese resistance in southern Manchuria.

In Manchuria proper, the ratio was 2.2 :1.In manpower, In tanks and artillery, the ratio was 4.8 :1; and in aviation assets, about 2 :1.

On…
http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/glantz3/glantz3.asp#ch3

Guess this should be on the other thread, just sling it over if you want to Mod.

The figures tell nothing, attacking side should have the 3:1 total superiority according military theory.
Of cource the quality of Kwantung army wasn’t the same in 1945, but as it said, the situation was common for all of the Japane units in the mid of 1945. They had a shortage of everything.
True - they hold a defence in a fortified areas, but finaly - they had no chances to win or at least to stop enemy.
US had 5:1 total superior in infantry and absolute in air in Okinawa. Plus the Heavy ship’s artillery supported troops very well.Besides the Japs has no tank at all.
No match for Japanes…

Think the figures in the Leavenworth papers show that the Japanese were hopelessly outclassed in both manpower and especially in material.:wink:

True, but wind back to 1941-42 when their good divisions creamed the Allies when the Japanese were badly outnumbered, and triply so when one remembers the ratios for attackers versus defenders, and notably in Malaya.

The materiel ratio was sometimes very much in Japan’s favour, again notably in Malaya with tanks and aircraft, which overcame the ground manpower ratio disadvantage.

Then again, the manpower numbers were hugely in their favour on Kokoda, as were material advantages with mountain guns, mortars, HMG etc, and particularly in the early critical stages, but they did relatively poorly then with their, by then, well blooded Imperial Guards.

As always, much of the fate of a battle or campaign comes back to the quality of the troops, training, battle hardening, morale, and leadership, all of which were often lacking in Manchuria against the Soviets in 1945. Which was the exact opposite of the Soviets who attacked. Add in the huge materiel advantages of the Soviets and Japan was bound to lose, even if it hadn’t been caught in the midst of shifting positions and without fortifications etc.

And, as almost always, nothing succeeds like success. An army on a roll can often pull off achievements that an army on the ropes usually won’t.

The Soviets DID out number the Japanese at least locally. There were no more than 600,000 IJA soldiers in the actual Kwantung Army. The 1.2 million is somewhat of a misnomer, since many of those troops were spread out and numbers included the Japanese garrisons throughout the peninsula. The IJA had virtually no mobility. In fact, there is little doubt the Soviets enjoyed a huge local advantage in personnel in their highly mobile army while the Japanese garrisons were isolated…

And comparing the open country of Manchuria to Okinawa is like comparing Monaco to the moon…I might add that Soviet forces conducting amphibious operations on Sakhalin did not perform any better than their American Marine counterparts, and in fact failed to achieve any of their objectives according to timetables set and continued fighting until well after Japan’s surrender…

In August 1945, according to Yalta Conference agreements, the Soviet Union took over the control of Sakhalin. The Soviet attack on South Sakhalin started on 11 August 1945, as a part of Operation August Storm, four days before the Surrender of Japan, after the bombing of Hiroshima. The 56th Rifle Corps consisting of the 79th Rifle Division, the 2nd Rifle Brigade, the 5th Rifle Brigade and the 214 Armored Brigade attacked the Japanese 88th Division. Although the Red Army outnumbered the Japanese by a factor of three, they were unable to advance due to strong Japanese resistance. (Japan had quite a presence here, and developed much infrastructure.) It was not until the 113th Rifle Brigade and the 365th Independent Naval Infantry Rifle Battalion from Sovietskaya Gavan (Советская гавань) landed on Tōro (塔路), a seashore village of western Sakhalin on 16 August, that the Soviets broke the Japanese defence line. Japanese resistance grew weaker after this landing. Actual fighting, mostly petty skirmishes, continued until 21 August. From 22 August to 23 August, most of the remaining Japanese units announced a truce. The Soviets completed the conquest of Sakhalin on 25 August 1945 by occupying the capital, Toyohara. Japanese sources claim that 20,000 civilians were killed during the invasion…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakhalin

Has anybody been to the Atomic Testing Museaum in Las vegas?.I am going there next month and was wondering if it’s worth seeing?If anyone has been there I would appreciate knowing.Thx… I am curious of they might have any atomic blast fragments for sale in the gift store.

August Storm was the pinnacle of the Red Army, as the Leavenworth papers explains…

The spirit of the offensive, born in the period of Marshal Tukhachevsky and reflected in the field regulations and doctrinal debates of the 1930s, but due to the officer purges the survivors of these purges could not imaginatively adapt Tukhachevsky’s theories to the reality of a surprise attack employing massed armor and bold maneuver, but by 1945 the Soviets demonstrated their mastery of combined arms warfare that four blood-soaked years of fighting against the Germans had perfected.

Almost total Red air force supremacy enabled the Soviets to use airborne troops to capture forward air fields and bring in fuel and logistics to keep the offensive rolling, 700 miles in about 20 days.

But while August Storm was massive in scope, it was relatively small [in proportion to the armies involved] in action.

Total casualties, out of 2 million men engaged, under 93,000 KIA on both sides [Soviet estimates] 41,000 [Japanese estimates]

Although some Japanese units fought suicidal actions, many simply surrendered, as Hirohitos surrender proclamation filtered in.

On Okinawa, total Japanese KIA between 106,000 and 130,000, total, American KIA 7,613 ground troops, plus 5,000 Navy. Both sides lost between 118,000 and 142,000, of 300,000 men engaged.

Only 7000 Japanese surrendered.

The August Storm operation was studied at West Point during the Cold war as a blueprint for possible Soviet combined operations against Western Europe, but with the collapse of the Soviets Empire, those days are long gone.

And could the Soviets invade Hokkaido?

Soviet amphibious capabilities were limited, Its naval forces by August 1945, the Pacific Fleet, had 2 cruisers, 1 flagship, 10 destroyers, 2 torpedo boats, 19 patrol boats, 78 submarines, 10 mine layers, 52 minesweepers, 49 “MO” boats, 204 motor torpedo boats, 1459 aircraft.

Not sure what the largest force landed in one echelon was in their operations in Sakhalin and Kurile islands, battalion size, larger? probably less than a division, anyone have figures?

Hokkaido was defended by Five Japanese divisions, about 114,000 men.

Delay caused by Japanese resistance on the Sakhalin and Kurile islands islands is one of the reasons cited by Glantz for Soviet failure to conduct the offensive against Hokkaido.

A review of Glantz’s book on August Storm that mentions the fighting on the islands…
http://sonic.net/~bstone/archives/031109.shtml

The bolshevic criminal Tikhachevsky has no relation at the soviet strategy and tactic of Geat Offensives of 1944-45, that were actualy learned from GErmans blitzcriege, adopted to the Soviet conditions.
As in Blizcrieg the Core of the Soviet forces - were mechanized Tank steamroller , with tied interaction all of kind of troops.

Almost total Red air force supremacy enabled the Soviets to use airborne troops to capture forward air fields and bring in fuel and logistics to keep the offensive rolling, 700 miles in about 20 days.

But while August Storm was massive in scope, it was relatively small [in proportion to the armies involved] in action.

Total casualties, out of 2 million men engaged, under 93,000 KIA on both sides [Soviet estimates] 41,000 [Japanese estimates]

Although some Japanese units fought suicidal actions, many simply surrendered, as Hirohitos surrender proclamation filtered in.

On Okinawa, total Japanese KIA between 106,000 and 130,000, total, American KIA 7,613 ground troops, plus 5,000 Navy. Both sides lost between 118,000 and 142,000, of 300,000 men engaged.

As i know , the ONLY american strength were above half of million .Plus more the 100 000 all of Japs in Island.i.e no lees then 650 000 of mens total.
Besides the area of combat activity was very small , so both side can concentrate all their means ( including artillery ) on the relatively small area.
Of cource the conditions of warfare in Manchguria and Okinawa were the different.Many Japs surrender after the Tokio official declaration of Surrender, but in fact many still fanticlly resisted. For instance ,during the fight for Korean Fortified Area ( the line of armored dots ) the Red Army fought very hard.

Only 7000 Japanese surrendered.

Or let to be surrender.
In fact many of japs commited a suicide, many wounded were killed by Americans, in fear they can blow themself up.
In many cases American prefered the Grenade and Flame -thrower to check - is anybody there in dot or cave?Of course all the wounded perished.

And could the Soviets invade Hokkaido?

Not just could, but they start it.
The Vasilevskij commander of operation , ordered to begin the landing operation in 18 august , but later this operation was refused by General Command in Moscow

Soviet amphibious capabilities were limited, Its naval forces by August 1945, the Pacific Fleet, had 2 cruisers, 1 flagship, 10 destroyers, 2 torpedo boats, 19 patrol boats, 78 submarines, 10 mine layers, 52 minesweepers, 49 “MO” boats, 204 motor torpedo boats, 1459 aircraft.

Not sure what the largest force landed in one echelon was in their operations in Sakhalin and Kurile islands, battalion size, larger? probably less than a division, anyone have figures?

Hokkaido was defended by Five Japanese divisions, about 114,000 men.

Delay caused by Japanese resistance on the Sakhalin and Kurile islands islands is one of the reasons cited by Glantz for Soviet failure to conduct the offensive against Hokkaido.

The most probably it was the changed political situation after 15 august.
Japane declared the unconditional surrender, American have tested the a-bombs.Now Stalin wasn’t sure about of further occupation Hokkaido.
This actualy can lead to the conflict with Americans.

They still were not so much isolated as the gassiron of Islands right?
The Kwantung army still had ability of tactical maneuvre ( altough theoretical).
Their command simply commited a serious mistakes in planning, they was waiting the Great Soviet offensive no sooner of mid 1946, they also failured to determine the Direction of Soviet offensive.
And they still had a mobility , having about 1000 of tanks , many of trucks and obsolet aircrafts.

And comparing the open country of Manchuria to Okinawa is like comparing Monaco to the moon…

Is Monaco before or after firebombing?:slight_smile:
If after - i think they would look very simular …

I might add that Soviet forces conducting amphibious operations on Sakhalin did not perform any better than their American Marine counterparts, and in fact failed to achieve any of their objectives according to timetables set and continued fighting until well after Japan’s surrender…

Of cource they not perfomed landing operation better then Americans.
They simply couldn’t
As it post Ashes the Soviet had very limited ability for landing operations.( they have no enough military fleet to support and transports for landing).

And as their American command, who planned to capture the Okinawa for month (or so) have been suddenly wondered of ability Japanes to resis. And spended entire 4 months for operation:)Concentrating almost whole pacific aviation and Navy…
Keep also in mind that the weather condition in Kuril and Sakhalin is rather more harsh then on the Souther Island.
The other true is that the Sakhalin has been liberated after the Japs official surrenger- this halped of cource, although they still resisted, but many of japs probably were no more motivated to die.

Um, many of the Japanese “tanks” were armored cars. And have you ever actually looked at their “tanks?”

Is Monaco before or after firebombing?:slight_smile:
If after - i think they would look very simular …

Um, Monaco was never firebombed…

Of cource they not perfomed landing operation better then Americans.
They simply couldn’t
As it post Ashes the Soviet had very limited ability for landing operations.( they have no enough military fleet to support and transports for landing).

Then what would be the real point in comparison? The fighting on Okinawa was that of trench warfare since terrain hindered any combined arms armored thrust and the entire island was essentially a meticulously prepared underground fortress…

And as their American command, who planned to capture the Okinawa for month (or so) have been suddenly wondered of ability Japanes to resis. And spended entire 4 months for operation:)Concentrating almost whole pacific aviation and Navy…
Keep also in mind that the weather condition in Kuril and Sakhalin is rather more harsh then on the Souther Island.
The other true is that the Sakhalin has been liberated after the Japs official surrenger- this halped of cource, although they still resisted, but many of japs probably were no more motivated to die.

I think the Japanese ethnically cleansed might not think of things in terms of a “liberation.” More like: revenge land grab and ethnic cleansing…

The islands weren’t so much liberated as they were reacquired…

Yes i saw
You can too

Type-95

The Red Army soldiers observe the cuptured Japane tanks.
Don’t look like an armored cars. Probably like a German Pz II/III.
Still better then nothing, right?Japs still had about 1000 of tanks in Manchguria and Korea.

Then what would be the real point in comparison? The fighting on Okinawa was that of trench warfare since terrain hindered any combined arms armored thrust and the entire island was essentially a meticulously prepared underground fortress…

There is much point to comparition. The Japane soldiers, command and suicidal tactic were the same in most cases.The terrain were different , but way of Japanes thinking - the same.

I think the Japanese ethnically cleansed might not think of things in terms of a “liberation.” More like: revenge land grab and ethnic cleansing…

There vere no even hint at ethnical clearising in Sakhalin and Kurils.
The most of their garrisons have been captured and nobody even executed the POWs.
Just old russian territories ( since the 17… forget how years) have been returned.
So it was really liberation , like liberation other or russian territory like Kuban,Crimea and ets.
BTW about ethnical cleansing - how doy you think the suspiciously low percentage of POWs in Okinawa- was that a sort of cleansing?

The islands weren’t so much liberated as they were reacquired…

Well say it reaquired if like the word.
I hope you will not agains that american reacquired Phillipines too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
Um, many of the Japanese “tanks” were armored cars. And have you ever actually looked at their “tanks?”

Yes i saw
You can too

Type-95

The Red Army soldiers observe the cuptured Japane tanks.
Don’t look like an armored cars. Probably like a German Pz II/III.
Still better then nothing, right?Japs still had about 1000 of tanks in Manchguria and Korea.

Quote:

Look at the armour…here…
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/japan/japan-tank.html
They can be even penetrated by browning 50 calibers.

Pictures, as you’ve noted on several occasions, do not tell the real story. Both Glantz and Wiki report that at least a sizable portion of Japanese armor were armoured cars.

Better than nothing --I guess…But no match for the T-34. Even Sherman crews in the US Marines/Army had to use HE ammo against Japanese tanks because their AP passed right through the armor without doing too much damage on indirect hits…

There is much point to comparition. The Japane soldiers, command and suicidal tactic were the same in most cases.The terrain were different , but way of Japanes thinking - the same.

But they weren’t as “suicidal” in Manchuria. It wasn’t their home island, and the Emperor directed them to surrender…

There vere no even hint at ethnical clearising in Sakhalin and Kurils.
The most of their garrisons have been captured and nobody even executed the POWs.
Just old russian territories ( since the 17… forget how years) have been returned.
So it was really liberation , like liberation other or russian territory like Kuban,Crimea and ets.

Except the entire Japanese population was displaced…And numerous Japanese POWs disappeared into the bowls of the Soviet Union…

BTW about ethnical cleansing - how doy you think the suspiciously low percentage of POWs in Okinawa- was that a sort of cleansing?

Not unless suicide and group think are forms of ethnic cleansing…

Did Americans kill some Japanese POWs. Absolutely they did, as the Japanese did to any Americans that fell into their hands at that point.

But if Japanese soldiers were taken alive, they were found to be immensely useful since they tended to now think of themselves as no longer Japanese…

But there were few Japanese that offered themselves for surrender.

Well say it reaquired if like the word.
I hope you will not agains that american reacquired Phillipines too?

Um, the Philippines are an island nation in the Pacific. What would they have to do with the Kurils?