Stalin

No! This is a primary mistake! Soviet history tried to hide the agressive plans of the USSR and tell this story to whole world. But be mre pragmatic. 40.000 - that only small part of 200.000 officers in Red Army. More, young commanders with experience of Winter War was better than old communist with experience of only Civil war (and they undersimated power of tanks and planes, prefer cavalry :slight_smile: ) The HQ of Red Army to 41 was pretty good. The disadvantage of Soviet - was an unpreparedness to defense war. For example, at the border with German in 1st day of war was burned about 20 tonns of topographic maps of Germany. But by dairyā€™s of Soviet generals, they hav no maps for war.( defense war, of course) Without maps - artillery was unuseable. Coordination of army - awful. The tanks was not equipped with radio - that was economic turn, the tank was designed to attack in compact group. That was a like story about David and Goliaph, the strike in the perfect time and in the perfect place - and you make great damage for more strongly opponent. But power of Soviet Goliaph was incredible. Even wit very hard hit, he recovered and finished enemyā€¦

Well im getting my information from a creditable history book, and anyway Im not quite sure what you are saying but it was true that Soviet Goliath finally beet Germany, but in the beggining years they where unorganized and badly led.

Not badly led, but very auwful organized. But this desorganiztion wasnā€™t normal state of Red Army. That was like a shock after unexpected hit. And many spoil of war was captured in first days of war, that provide Hitler with huge supply base. For example, a lots of captured 45mm and 76mm was sended to Africa. Hitler have them captured more than enough on the Eastern front. Another example - most dangerous opponent for Soviet troops was a tank group equipped with captured T-34 and KV. Another tanks wasnā€™ dangerous for Red Army.

Stalin had plently of chances to start a war with the Allies but never didā€¦maybe this really wasnt his intention. Plus Kruchev (spl?) was a war monger and came close to starting a 3rd world war (not saying that America was innocent on this matter either) but didnt either. Maybe Krushev and Stalin were a bit more sensible than you think???

Stalin wasnā€™t prepared to make war with USA. But Chruschev in really wasnā€™t war monger - he was only smoothtalker, joker. For example Stalin artifical increase the rate of Korean war. And none can stop it. Stalin made preparations for the ww3. But when he died - war was over soon.

Besides helping to prevent a total nuclear warā€¦the best thing Chruschev ever did was bang his shoe on the table. That was funny. :lol: :lol:

Yep. :smiley: Joker, as I saidā€¦ Maybe you right about preventing a total nuclear war, but I donā€™t think so. Ithat time hadnā€™t enought warheads to erase life from Earthā€¦ Number of than was small and power too. Japan experiment of USA was hit Japan - small country. But SU and USA can take a hit of 10-20 nuclear bombs with such power, and recunstruct the industry after thatā€¦ But before reconstruction, ground forces would set a winner in that war. Do not foret about biological weapons too. In case of total war, all conventions had no useā€¦

Now on that we are in agreement :smiley:

wow!,I don`t know much about him,but,in the present,what russians think about stalin???.

He killed lots of camerades!,I don`t agree with that.

but is only my opinion,the good think he did was the attacks to germany.
:slight_smile:

Yes. He killed the 'camrades" and save a Russia from big Evil. The leaders of the revolution wasā€¦ Canā€™t even find termā€¦ For example: Buharin in his book wrote ā€œfor the hardened of Soviet Power, we need to kill about 5% of the civil man in year in every region of SUā€ or Trotckiy: " all soviet people must be members of working camp. children must work from nine years. All women must be in public use." And all in such directionā€¦ Stalin provide to Russia ā€œlight and soft communismā€. We must be grateful for himā€¦

Ukraine was the hardest hit. In the Famine of Ukraine, 1/4 of Ukrainian pop died. 1/3 of Ukrainian children died. And most intellects died. The Ukrain still suffers from the effects today.

Yep. Thatā€™s true, but donā€™t forget - Ukraine was most great opportunity to communist in Civil War, and after end the Civil War, the Ukraine begin to guerilla war with communists. And all nation of Ukraine was helped the guerilleros. The Soviet Power canā€™t just ignore them. And left them without food. For lesson. But tragedy ā€œheroā€ of Ukraine was not Stalin, in that period he havnā€™t enough power to rule SU himself. The power was divided between high ranked communist. The true killers of Ukrainian people were Tukhachevskiy and Jakir. They used poisoned gases to trap guerillerosā€¦

why kill 5% of the civil man?,I think it wasnt light or soft communism,it was more than heavy!,child work is another think in im not agree. I dont think killing camerades,was very utile,because the soldiers were enemies of the enemy and of the allieds!,so the morale wasn`t big for red army.
yes,he saved russia of the big evil,but the cost were much!.

Thanks for yout reply :slight_smile: .

5% of civilians - not Stalins idea. Thatā€™s Buharin idea of ā€œconstant terrorā€. And Stalin kill him for that. Most number of first communists was a boody maniacs, and Stalins purges main target - was clear them. About morale: when Stalins died, millions of people went to streets and cried. A lots of people selfmurdering. They thought the life is over without Stalin. Most of people loved Stalin wuth pure heart.

Not Stalins idea but he let it pass.

No he decline it. The number of victims was minimal with Stalins regime. If the Trotckiy, Buharein, Kamenev or Zinoviev take a lead, the number of victims would be a lot more ā€¦

minimal, but you have to admit, still ALOT.

Is it matter of choise.
About 10 members of mine family, both from mother and father side was killed by Stalin/Jugashvilly regime bastards in 1933-1956. For me is it ENOUGH to hate any RED-ASS, without kind.

For somebody in Russia about 5 millions Ukrainians, died during 1933 by henocide - just neadfull victims, nothing criminal.

For somebody in Russia about 5-15 millions (nobody knows how much, archives closed and i guess never be opened) died in GULAG, SLON and other commy-versions of Dahau - just way to get country stronger.

For somebody a lot of Polish people, POWs, killed in Khatin - just way to lead politics.

Is it matter of personal choise - how to look at it. If man look at it as a good deal - is it good characteristic about himself, nothing more.
Whole Germany voited Hitler about 70 years ago and looks at nacism like at way to make country stronger and sucessfull. Whole Cambojia choised Communsm (or allow to other make a chiose, not matter) as a way to handle with problems.
And all, germas, russians, cambojians and another peoples, who put at shoulders heā€™s monsters as presidents was sure in right choise.

Today Germany pay for all, they send money for all POWs, who was in Dahau, Buhenwald and etc., for all alive victims, who was harmed by Hitler. Not by good will, yes, but pay.

But in Russia nobody pay for peoples, who was put in hell without guilty, called GULAG, SLON and etcā€¦ no one sayd to Ucrainians - ā€œSorry, is it was a terrible mistaceā€. Just way to make country stronger, minimal evil from possible.
If you ready to die in Siberia, or ready to eat humans (because no more to eat), or ready to lead your peoples to this situation - okay, i agree - is it just way to make country stronger. But i prefer to live in country, where goverment never put me without mine criminal guilty in snowy land to cut trees without warm clotches, foods and payment just because they decided - mine death will make this f**ed country a bit stronger. I no need such goverment and pretty damn can live good and happy without people-eating country.

I can unerstood ypu point, but canā€™t agree with you. I also lost the relatives in Stalins regime, and also in the times of Brejnev, butā€¦ My grandmother went through GULag, for love with German officer, but she still loved Stalin until death. And now, I, my friends, many people as I know want to new leader to Russia with Stalins power. For the sake of our country, even we would killed or sended in Siberia. The Stalins regime was hard, but that losses in civilian more better than constant local conflict in Chechnya and band fightings. That events canā€™t be with Stalin regimeā€¦

So we got two different points of view. :wink:
Is it usual russian talk ā€œWho guilty and what to do ?ā€. I donā€™t like start such talks.
Stalin power ? I may be wrong, but for my toughts Stalinā€™s power (?) based at weaks of people. Just imagine - about 5 million (letā€™s agree with this quantity, no need start debate about ā€œhow moch was killedā€, ok ?) of men, mostly with war expirience, one by one, night after night arrested, tortured then killed or sended to die. You sitting at home and wait - who will be next, may by you ?
In building, where i live now, in 1933 was only few non-abandoned appertaments - other was closed and sealed by NKVD. And people, who got luck survive first in 1930s and then survive in blocked Leningrad - as mine grandmother, for example - they just wait, who would be nextā€¦
ā€œIf in night you could heard sound of carā€™s engine - is it meand only one - they go for somebody.ā€ - my grandma sayd.
Is it was strange power, at my look. Yes, a lot of people was full in love by Stalin. A lot of people was scared by Stalin. A lot of people was scared to death by Stalin, as well.
Need we now somebody, who will scare to death us tomorow ?
Not me.
But i belive - someday Russia got something like Stalin, or something like Hitler or so. And i hope - iā€™ll be somewhere far away from Russia, because
i like be alive, is it just habbit. Better in country, where i can do my work, where my son can grow and where i no need more die ā€œfor govermentā€™s sakeā€. . And, if this new country someday went in war - yes, i will be in army with gun in my hand - because iā€™ll be need to protect my wife and mine children. Not for ā€œcountry sakeā€, no. Just because this country good place to live there. Just because in this country never ex-criminal will be elected as President (or ex-spy, as well). Just because ex-spys never be masters of whole country. Just because in this country imposible to be ex-jail-guy and be an respectable man in one timeā€¦
Not goverment do such place - people make country good or bad, then they make a goverment.
Today we got Chechnya (i can talk a lot about it, 'cos iā€™m not an thetretic in this case), terrorism, criminal, corruption as goverment politic - and all agree with it, canā€™t offer better to put new Stalin in Kremlin. Yeah, we will live as we like, as we live today. And new Stalin will: fix somehow all problems around, put all criminals in jails, kill all terrorist in johns, give a lot of money to all, etcā€¦
Nobody like to fight with problems. We will electing criminals in Goverment, we will pay to road-policeman, we will give respect to russian kind of Mafia, we will shake hand to all ex-spy, worked today as ā€œsecurity officersā€ā€¦
Nobody like to go in Chechnya and fight, nobody like go in police and fight with criminals (yes, is it sounds pretty childlish, but you you donā€™t do something - who will ?). Nobody like at least shake all shit from lokal drug-dealer. We like live without problems. We need somebody, who will manage us, protect us and point to us what to do.
We just need good Master - and he will fix all. But where is this market, where we can buy a GOOD MASTER to us ?
Sad. We no need F. D. R or Adenauer or somebody of great Presidendsā€¦ but we need dictatorā€¦ Master, who will lead us to great future.
Without me, okay ? I no need Master. I fix all mine problems without master - and i not hawe any Masterā€™s problems and never will pay to heā€™s ambitions.
Country - is it me, you, our frends, hoods - not any dictator, and in this country happens all, that we allow to happens, day by day. With our help or without. And if we not in barricades now - we argree with all happening around.
Sorry, but for my Country and Goverment (specially General-Secretary of President) are totally different words.