But who are “they”?
The American-British-Australian-Sweden comission , that found the fragments of hypotetical “N.K. torpedo”, is not an official point of S.korea gov.Korean authorities still very cautious to jump to a conclusion.
I heard the that a essential part of S.Korean population ( especialy anti-american youngs ) think it was an “American provbocation”.
There is always the possibility that the torpedo remnant was from some other event in the area, assuming it’s not a fabrication.
I don’t know anything about the survival of such ordnance after detonation on a target, but I was surprised by the pictures of the amount of the torpedo which is said to have survived the detonation.
Any naval ordnance experts here?
Looked like rather more than the tail end.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-korea-ship-sink-pictures,0,5983865.photogallery
But South has a …strong American military base and troops , that costs much more then ENTIRE obsolet N.Korean Artillery. Are they ( N/Korea) so finished idiots to start an nuclear conflict with nuqlear Superpower ( USA) that burn by desire to destroy the N.Korea finaly?
[QUOTE=Rising Sun*;168519]Looked like rather more than the tail end.
How many years this torpedo has lied at the sea’s botton?I mean it look rather like most of ww2 torpedos that i’ve seen in museums.
That’s what NK wants the rest of the world to think.
And there is every chance that that is exactly how the crazies running NK think.
Plus relying on the US not being willing to strike NK because it might cause a conflict with China or, less likely, Russia.
Though they could do enormous damage to Seoul, I don’t think North Korea would last very long. I read an article a couple of years ago stating that the DRKPA is in dire straits as far as readiness and rarely conducted exercises above corp level…
I saw a TV documentary some time in the last few years where comments by senior NK military officers showed that they have a solid core of f uckwits who believe Dear Leader and his paranoid beliefs that NK is ringed by enemies, notably the US, poised to wipe it out.
I wouldn’t expect a rational or restrained response by them if it comes to a shooting war.
The South would indeed very likely win. Problem is, Seoul represents an enormous fraction of GDP - with the follow on costs of reunification making those of Germany look like peanuts. It isn’t worth the risk.
That’s a rational analysis.
Rationality hasn’t figured large in the decision of many nations to go to war, or avoid it, and certainly not in the past century.
SK is clearly trying to avoid an unnecessary conflict, but there comes a point where one nation or the other crosses a line in the mind of the other and it’s on.
I refer the honourable gentleman to the following article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10129703.stm
And specifically;
Mr Lee’s presidential office said he had told Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd: “We will be taking firm, responsive measures against the North - and through international co-operation, we have to make the North admit its wrongdoing and come back as a responsible member of the international community.”
Yes the commission clearly pointed this at the North, the President’s office wouldn’t be taking ‘firm, responsive measures against the North’ if they didn’t believe they had done it.
And to believe this could possibly be an American conspiracy is verging on lunancy. The west is having a tough enough time running two counter insurgency operations in Iraq and Afghanistan (more like warfighting) without returning from the pavilion after a very long rain stopping play break to resume the second innings of the Korean War. These so-called ‘young anti-American South Koreans’ need to step away from their computers and conspiracy internet websites and start playing some sport.
Here’s some bones for the doubters to chew on.
http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_60052.shtml
Although I don’t see why any attention is given to the alleged presence of US warships when the SK vessel allegedly grounded itself, or how the US is responsible for provoking whatever it is provoking by not being responsible for SK grounding its own warship.
Has to be said, that’s pretty desperate rationalisation - traces of RDX were found on the wreck. This explosive is typically used in torpedoes, including the German-made torpedoes used by the ROK type 209 submarines. Therefore it must have been a German-made torpedo, therefore the ROK navy must have sunk it.
The failed logical step there must be obvious to all - more than one type of torpedo (indeed, type of ordnance) might use RDX - it’s been in common use since the 1940s and has been around for over a century. As for the grounding theory, that’s just pathetic - whatever sank the Cheonan was clearly sudden and catastrophic, enough to break the ship’s back almost instantly (oh, and contaminate the remains with RDX). To claim that it was grounded and then later rammed by another ship at a later time simply doesn’t explain the evidence at all.
Apparently also impossible.
According to the doubter’s site the average water depth at the grounding site was 6.4 metres with a low of 4 metres at the alleged time of grounding. There is a very nice picture of that on the doubter’s site with details emphasising the point they make about grounding depths.
Alas, assuming Wiki is accurate as I can’t find any other specs, the Cheonan had a draught of 2.9 metres, leaving between 1.1 and 3.5 metres under its keel on the doubter’s figures. This makes it impossible for the keel even to hit ground, never mind making the more substantial contact that is required to ground a ship.
Well , let me to note you, mr student, that the international practice has an other forms to express an indignation to an another side - Diplomatic Note or Protest. .Do we see something simular now?
I think the personal conversation between two presidents( especially mentioned in BBC media) COULD NOT BE AN OFFICIAL note/point of S.Korean state on definition.
Yes the commission clearly pointed this at the North, the President’s office wouldn’t be taking ‘firm, responsive measures against the North’ if they didn’t believe they had done it.
but it looks like … pure blackmail from a side.
BTW do you know the N.Korea OFFICIALLY ask Russia and China to carry out an another independent ( from the west) investigation with incident.Group of our military expers is working in Korea.So the resaults of that invastigation can be different from the first one…
And to believe this could possibly be an American conspiracy is verging on lunancy. The west is having a tough enough time running two counter insurgency operations in Iraq and Afghanistan (more like warfighting) without returning from the pavilion after a very long rain stopping play break to resume the second innings of the Korean War. These so-called ‘young anti-American South Koreans’ need to step away from their computers and conspiracy internet websites and start playing some sport.
It’s true, the youngs often are too stopid…
However why do you think it might be “conspiracy”. it’s an Informational war against YOUR enemy. That sometimes try to mistake wish for reality. Remember “Iraqi MDW”?
Some people which i’ve read forums think - the all mess is started AGAINST the China.
And btw CHina in hurry has bought the 15 divisions of S-300 AA defence missles quite recently.
Obviously to be applied to against N.Korean aviation ( that hardly exist)
So the true is not as simple- whatever Washington or Pekin going to do in their geopolitical games- the Koreans shall determine - do they need new bloody terrible Civil WAR between the ONE people?
The “Asia Times” wrote article the express same point about RDX explosive which were used only by Western fleets.That just feed the rumors in amomng Koreans about possible provocation…
What explosive do Russian torpedoes use? I’m guessing the Chinese follow Russian practice here, as will the North Koreans.
Looking at past relations I doubt a diplomatic note would achieve anything, most likely it would end up in the North Korea charge d’affairs waster paper bin. The best you’re going to get in this current climate is what i’ve already given you.
Blackmail? I’m sorry I don’t see it unless you mean the North Korean’s sabre rattling
I would be very interested to read what the Russians report back, the Chinese however, thats a different kettle of fish. Let us not forget that the Chinese have been for a long time the paymasters of the North Koreans so their opinion would need to be taken with a pinch of salt, I would add also I think the same of the Americans.
It’s a conspiracy because sad overweight computer nerds have started an internet rumour about it. As for Iraqi WMD - mea culpa, the west has no leg to stand on there. I’d be genuinely interested why people would view this as a move against China, if you do happen across any interesting theories please do share them.
Yes the truth is never simple, However, I very much doubt either Koreas will act without the blessing of their sponsors, although the nightmare scenario is the North Koreas ignoring the Chinese and doing whatever they please.
I don’t exactly know.
The first soviet aquistic torpedo SET-53 used the mixture of TNT and RDX T4( :)) .But chemical compaund of soviet/chinas military explosive is differ from say American. It was a consequence of slightly diffent technological chain and equipment and different military standards.
Depends how they were doing it. If they found small traces of RDX, and missed the TNT, then that isn’t inconsistent. It’s also possible that some Soviet torpedoes used pure RDX at some point.