The Balkan War Thread

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#21

Out of Serb vengeance…

Nice “human shield” argument…

You mean the civilan population should feel well and safe when they are bombed by all the NATO air forces located in Europe and part of them located in the US and don’t try to flee that area? You imply that those bombings were rediculous trifles like some rain.

Um, what? The “US” (NATO actually) forces targeted mostly paramilitary units. Civilians were unfortunate victims in all this…

But then, why were they on major roads to begin with?

It is your fantasies. You invented it on the spot. You have no proofs for that

LMFAO!! Irony alert. You’ve yet to “proof” ONE statement you’ve made here, strawboy…

He was a mere bureaucrat, he could not turn anyone. No one will believe you that ordinary Serbs and Serbian officials would just watch how Serbian population was purged by Muslims and let Miloshevich stayed in power doing nothing then.

I guess he was just “following orders” then?

Pogroms were of mutual character.

So you admit the Serbian gov’t forces murdered people then?

But they were armed and it demolishes your argument that they did not get anything after the collapse of the old Yugoslavian Army

Um, they were armed with old rifles against tanks and artillery?

Stop being an idiotic asshole with this “revisionist history” stuff! Anyone that was around then knows fully who had the heavy weapons against rifles during the siege of Sarajevo…

So you are related to unpanished killings of the civilians by NATO air raids. It is you who are the war criminal. You should be imprisoned or executed.

Feel free to come and get me…

The US does not recognise the jurisdiction of International courts on the war crime that Americans set up for other nations. Cause the American “brave” military killers of defenseless civilians who teach others about “basic right and wrong” are the main war criminals who feel safe and never suffer from pangs of remorse.

Another “Goebbels” argument. Tantamount that the Holocaust was okay because the US helped bomb Germany…

You mean Chinese volonteers went to Korean war paying for their travel expenses on their own and faced the prospects to be arrested upon returning to China as the members of foreign armed units.

LMFAO!! Good one! Name one Serb that was arrested by Yugoslav officials for being a mercenary…

Meanwhile, commanders of the Serb militias have been shielded from the Hague…

#22

[QUOTE=Nickdfresh;123534]Out of Serb vengeance…

Nice “human shield” argument…

When Israel’s Army started to pepare the invasion to Lebonon, local Muslim
armed groups started to fire a dozen of their primitive rockets at the regions of Israel that was abut on Lebenon per day.

Guess what happened? Jews started to flee those areas en masse, it became
almost unpopulated and the fact was repeated many times in the world media. Jews fled from that region in spite of the fact, that half a dozen of primitive Arabian rockets, can’t be compared to the destructve power of the hundreds of modern NATO aircrafts, missiles, and in spite of the fact that Jews had modern shelters where in the region.

Um, what? The “US” (NATO actually) forces targeted mostly paramilitary units. Civilians were unfortunate victims in all this…

Oh really? You mean a pilot can differ a paramilitary from non-paramilitary at an altitude of 6-7 thousand meters, reaching a sound barrier. The NATO forces bombed Belgrade and the rest of Serbia as well, simply at a lesser escale.

I guess he was just “following orders” then?

He was following the orders from the West when he betrayed Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo.
You should be thankful to him. But for him Americans would be washed with their blood during the land invasion like it happens in Iraq and most of Americans yell about the necessity to withdraw thier troops from the region.

So you admit the Serbian gov’t forces murdered people then?

You don’t understand the meaning of the word pogrom? It is a spontaneous violence on behalf of individuals. Pogroms as violence on the ethnic grounds happened in Australia, the US, Britain in the 1990s and later.

Um, they were armed with old rifles against tanks and artillery?

If Muslims had been armed with old rifles, the war in Bosnia would have been over within a few days. Most likely there would have been no war t all.

Stop being an idiotic asshole with this “revisionist history” stuff! Anyone that was around then knows fully who had the heavy weapons against rifles during the siege of Sarajevo…

One can’t defend Sarajevo with old rifles. It sounds stupid for anyone. Don’t paly fool.

Feel free to come and get me…

I wil have to ask Albanian slave traders with donors of human organs to come and get you. It will be the most reliable way.

Another “Goebbels” argument. Tantamount that the Holocaust was okay because the US helped bomb Germany…

Don’t start to troll on Holocaust. The USSR organized its own Holocausts of non-jews in the 1930s and 1940s but it did not prevent the US to become the Soviet ally.

LMFAO!! Good one! Name one Serb that was arrested by Yugoslav officials for being a mercenary…

The Yugoslav officials arrested Miloshovich and other senior officials, and you want make somebody doubt that they arrested ordinary Serbian fighters

Meanwhile, commanders of the Serb militias have been shielded from the Hague…

Commanders of the Serb militias in Bosnia are shielded by local Serbian population, otherwise they would have been arrested a decade ago.

#23

The “Ukrainain” prime-minister is a semi-jew, semi Russian.

Tymoshenko is the daughter of Ludmila Nikolaevna Telegina and Vladimir Abramovich Grigean, an Armenian jew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko

The number of Ukrainians in the Ukrainain parliament is less than 38%

#24

[QUOTE=Nickdfresh;123531]The Albanian “point of view” was most of the population…

And “American” air strikes killed far fewer than then the village massacres. Funny how you’ve previously said the number was roughly equal, and now the NATO air strikes exceed the numbers murdered by Serb forces…

What village massacres? Call at least one village where Serbs massacred its civilian Albanian population in Kosovo?

I said that the figure of both civilian and militant Albanian losses was roughly equal to the number of civilians killed by Ameican air raids. If we take only Albanian civilian casualties for the years of conflict they will be lesser than the civilian losses during the NATO air raids.

LOL Are you really this ignorant, or are you just a ‘false-flag’ troll?

The false flag trolliong and ignorance are the domains of American foreign policy. I have never worked for American government or armed forces so such characteristics can be attributed only to you.

Um, no one was banned on that discussion in the thread also, genius…

Of course anyone can deny the fact of holodomor but no one can call in question the fact of Holocaust without being banned. It is very consistent.

Sorry, we didn’t mean to interfere with the Slavic tribal, blood feud murder-festival. But since NATO has made so much money from the heroin the KLA provided us, we couldn’t resist!
:)[

If you are not shared money from the trade of heroin related to KLA, it is because you did not hold the necessary post. There have been reports that drug Albanian maphia in the EU related to UCK bribed policemen, local state officials and even the MPs of the EU parliament.

By the way, I would like to express deep thanks to the US governments and troops that demolished Taliban regime in Afganistan causing the enormous leap in heroin production and for the fact that “American fighters for freedoms of the local population” turn a blind eye to it.

Much more people in Ukraine, Russia as well as in the EU can enjoy heroin now.

#25

And your point is?

#26

So, whose fault is that?

#27

US troops have actually faced military justice for excesses in Iraq, and despite some of the appalling behaviors, there have been US troops tried for human rights abuses by their own…

Why should anyone believe that the US is more just and and unbiased than some other state when it goes about war crimes of its own troops. Quite posibbly that the US is much more biassed and injust.

#28

First of all it is the fault of the world order. The Ukrainain government and system of power is the part of it. If you challenge the Ukrainain government and system of power you’ll challenge the whole world order.

The elections is the fomal procedure that should simply legitimatise those who already have power and money and embedded in the system of power. There are the same faces from the times of Ukrainain SSR, any group outside the system of power will never win these elections due to being cut off from the financial and media resources or will simply be banned as extremist if it manages to gain popularity in spite of all obstacles. Those bans and pursecutions have taken place within last 17 years.

#29

So, where does the Orange Revolution fit into this rigid picture of entrenched power?

#30

[quote=“Nickdfresh,post:20,topic:3394”]

You mean the presence of the police in the US means that there are no crimes committed?

Um, the KLA already had most of their weapons, which consisted mostly of Yugoslav sourced small arms.

Yeah, they get it from the Serbs.

And the “UCK” police force has “6%” Serbs in its ranks. Feel free to actually prove your idiotic statements with some actual proof for once. Or will Eroka provide a link at a later date?

The fairy tales about “6%” Serbs in its ranks is made up by the Albanian drug dealers and terrorists forming the local goevernemnet.

#31

Um, so you admit that Serbs were invading a foreign country? Good! We’ve made progress.

They did not invade a foreign country cause the Bosnian independence was recognised by other states only at the end of conflict. Besides they were Serbian volonteers from Yugoslavia and not the units of the regular Yugoslvian army of Miloshevich

#32

Revolution implies the destruction of the existing system of power and its values, depriving the system’s functioneers from power, money and any means of influencing the situation. Nothing of it has happened in Ukraine.
“the Orange Revolution” was PR campaign conducted during the elections. There is nothing to choose between the leaders of “the Orange Revolution” and their opponents, both sides embedded into one system and benefit from it irrespectively of what side the Prime minister or President represents.

#33

Is there anything in the Ukrainian or world system of anything that meets your approval and isn’t the consequence of a vast conspiracy against whatever it is that continually oppresses you and the white races and all that is true and good in the world?

#34

[QUOTE=Kato;123556]

When Israel’s Army started to pepare the invasion to Lebonon, local Muslim
armed groups started to fire a dozen of their primitive rockets at the regions of Israel that was abut on Lebenon per day.

Guess what happened? Jews started to flee those areas en masse, it became
almost unpopulated and the fact was repeated many times in the world media. Jews fled from that region in spite of the fact, that half a dozen of primitive Arabian rockets, can’t be compared to the destructve power of the hundreds of modern NATO aircrafts, missiles, and in spite of the fact that Jews had modern shelters where in the region.

What does this have to do with anything?

Oh really? You mean a pilot can differ a paramilitary from non-paramilitary at an altitude of 6-7 thousand meters, reaching a sound barrier. The NATO forces bombed Belgrade and the rest of Serbia as well, simply at a lesser escale.

Their tough luck receiving the whirlwind…The targeting wasn’t done by the pilots, it was done by intelligence and centralized commands…

He was following the orders from the West when he betrayed Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo.
You should be thankful to him. But for him Americans would be washed with their blood during the land invasion like it happens in Iraq and most of Americans yell about the necessity to withdraw thier troops from the region.

“Following orders?” More like negotiated agreement at Dayton…

Semantics…

And largely the result of the Croatian Army’s offensive to retake the areas fought over in 1991. The Serbs no longer had default military supremacy as the Croatians and Bosnians became more sophisticated…

You don’t understand the meaning of the word pogrom? It is a spontaneous violence on behalf of individuals. Pogroms as violence on the ethnic grounds happened in Australia, the US, Britain in the 1990s and later.

Again, your point being?

If Muslims had been armed with old rifles, the war in Bosnia would have been over within a few days. Most likely there would have been no war t all.

It pretty much was once the countryside had been depopulated, even with newer rifles, which are generally useless against tanks…

One can’t defend Sarajevo with old rifles. It sounds stupid for anyone. Don’t paly fool.

I’m not the “fool” here. When did I ever say anything about “old rifles.” I said they lacked tanks, APCs, artillery, and they indeed had AKs and RPGs and some decrepit heavier weapons from various sources. But little more…

But they were at the mercy of bombardments and sniper fire during the siege…

I wil have to ask Albanian slave traders with donors of human organs to come and get you. It will be the most reliable way.

Oh, is that the excuse for murdering women and children and pushing out the population? Because some are criminals?

Don’t start to troll on Holocaust. The USSR organized its own Holocausts of non-jews in the 1930s and 1940s but it did not prevent the US to become the Soviet ally.

Of course they did. And some Ukrainians contributed to Hitler’s various holocausts as well…

The Yugoslav officials arrested Miloshovich and other senior officials, and you want make somebody doubt that they arrested ordinary Serbian fighters

I never “doubted” any of it.

Commanders of the Serb militias in Bosnia are shielded by local Serbian population, otherwise they would have been arrested a decade ago.

Of course they are.

But mentions of widescale Serb atrocities still is taboo in Yugoslavia…

#35

What village massacres? Call at least one village where Serbs massacred its civilian Albanian population in Kosovo?

I said that the figure of both civilian and militant Albanian losses was roughly equal to the number of civilians killed by Ameican air raids. If we take only Albanian civilian casualties for the years of conflict they will be lesser than the civilian losses during the NATO air raids.

I’ve already provided links.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/kosovo/cleansing/

*edit- now I have! the above link goes over the violence from both sides extensively…

And Egorka’s source is flawed and criticized by various academics as largely politically partisan criticism of the Clinton administration in the US, and had little to do with any in-depth study…

The false flag trolliong and ignorance are the domains of American foreign policy. I have never worked for American government or armed forces so such characteristics can be attributed only to you.

But are you Russian? Or Ukrainian?

And you should be far more appreciative of the US gov’ts efforts to supported an independent Ukraine.

BTW, I only served in the military as an enlisted man and NCO, if that is your definition of “working” for the gov’t, then so be it…

Of course anyone can deny the fact of holodomor but no one can call in question the fact of Holocaust without being banned. It is very consistent.

I don’t deny either, and have argued with those that do. Because I’m not a nationalist hypocrite like yourself…

If you are not shared money from the trade of heroin related to KLA, it is because you did not hold the necessary post. There have been reports that drug Albanian maphia in the EU related to UCK bribed policemen, local state officials and even the MPs of the EU parliament.

Another internet strawman argument. Again, the KLA was disarmed, and they procecute their criminals like any other state. Are you trying to tell me there’s no organized crime in the Ukraine?

By the way, I would like to express deep thanks to the US governments and troops that demolished Taliban regime in Afganistan causing the enormous leap in heroin production and for the fact that “American fighters for freedoms of the local population” turn a blind eye to it.

You’re welcome.

I’d like to thank the smack addicts across the world for funding them!

Much more people in Ukraine, Russia as well as in the EU can enjoy heroin now.

How much have you had today? :slight_smile:

If you’re going to condemn, that at least acknowledge US support, both open and covert, for Ukrainian nationalists. Or was Chevan right and are we just supporting another self-destructive lot ramped up on nationalism and long memories and bad blood?

More strawman arguments…

Blah…

:roll:

#36

Technicalities. It takes years for formal recognition. The Serbs were still fundamentally anti-democratic and were trying to usurp any political order which meant just representation according to demographics…

#37

:lol:

No. The disgruntled on the fringe will never be satisfied. I wonder if he’s ready to attack Poland yet?

#38

What does this have to do with anything?

I provided the example of analogical situation when the bombing caused the massive fleeing of local civilians from the targetted areas. Or you are going to claim that Israelis conducted some “retaliation operations” against local jews in the region of Israel that was within the reach of those home made rockets?

It is evident that NATO air raids where the main cause of the massive escape of civilians from Kosovo andlocal humanitarian disaster.

Their tough luck receiving the whirlwind…The targeting wasn’t done by the pilots, it was done by intelligence and centralized commands…

I’ve watched a documantary about a revolt in Afgan prison of Taliban fighters
imprisoned there. That revolt was cracked down by Americans and Northern Alliance soldiers.

The American air forces with their super precise weapon missed the necessary targets several times and inflicted losses on Americans and their Afgan allies. There were more Americans killed by American pilots than by Taliban fighters

“Following orders?” More like negotiated agreement at Dayton…

He did what he was told to do at Dayton, forced Bosnian Serbs to surrender.

It pretty much was once the countryside had been depopulated, even with newer rifles, which are generally useless against tanks…

It is evident fact that Muslims were much better armed with some rifles otherwise they were never able to wage war or defend Sarajevo, they would have been wiped out within a week.

I’m not the “fool” here. When did I ever say anything about “old rifles.” I said they lacked tanks, APCs, artillery, and they indeed had AKs and RPGs and some decrepit heavier weapons from various sources. But little more…

Oh so it turned out that they had not only old rifles.

Americans attacked Serbs when Serbs have almost no means to shoot down American planes. The same happened during the invasion in Iraq. The US seems to be not ashamed of using its military superiority that was much greater than in case of Serbian-muslim conflict in Bosnia

Oh, is that the excuse for murdering women and children and pushing out the population? Because some are criminals?

The thing is Albanians did’t like to live in the etnical historic Serbian Kosovo as part of Serbia and didn’t want to comply with Serbian laws. What is the problem if somebody returned to Albania. They have their own country. Any emigrant community should either comply with the laws of the original population or leave the state. It is approach shared in any state, including the US.

But mentions of widescale Serb atrocities still is taboo in Yugoslavia…
[/QUOTE]

The film footages with the scenes of murders in Bosnian Srebrinica were broadcast on local state TV a few years.

#39

Albanian Kosovo liberation Army fought not only against Serbs. It targetted any non-muslim population. The third largest community in Kosovo was Gypsies. After the arrival of the NATO troops Gypsies shared the destiny of te majority of Serbs were forced to flee or were killed by Albanians.

#40

But are you Russian? Or Ukrainian?

And you should be far more appreciative of the US gov’ts efforts to supported an independent Ukraine.

What efforts? Do you know that the father of the modern US president came to Ukraine in 1990 and made a speech in the local parliament of the Ukrainain SSR against the separation of Ukraine from the USSR. It was the US with the help of local officials that deprive Ukraie of the third largest stocks of nuclear weapon in the world that had been created by the generations of people

Another internet strawman argument. Again, the KLA was disarmed, and they procecute their criminals like any other state. Are you trying to tell me there’s no organized crime in the Ukraine?

The organized crime in Ukraine it is its venial ruling political and financial groups supported by foreigners among them is the US government

I’d like to thank the smack addicts across the world for funding them!

Of course they fund the Afgan government set up by American ruling class and thus cut down the American expenses.

How much have you had today? :slight_smile:

If you’re going to condemn, that at least acknowledge US support, both open and covert, for Ukrainian nationalists. Or was Chevan right and are we just supporting another self-destructive lot ramped up on nationalism and long memories and bad blood?

CIA tried to use Ukrainain nationalists for gaining intelligence information from within the USSR. It can hardly be called support, it was more like some trade.
By the way even these attempts failed due to the leakage from the American and British intelligence services.