The Balkan War Thread

Site Issues 2008 Archive Room
#41

Actually they carried out a bombing campaign with effected all constituencies in Lebanon and killed far more people that the Hezbollah rockets ever did. It was a foolishly conducted campaign that was largely self-defeating. And the actual reason that prompted the operation was the “kidnapping” of Israeli soldiers on the Lebanese side of the border during a convoy patrol, NOT because of rockets…

It is evident that NATO air raids where the main cause of the massive escape of civilians from Kosovo andlocal humanitarian disaster.

Horsehockey! Serb paramilitaries pointing guns at people and telling them to “get out” in retaliation for NATO attacks on mostly Serbian military targets in Kosovo cannot be blamed on NATO…

Nice properganda angle, but completely disingenuous crap!

Indeed, people were putting themselves more at risk of NATO air strikes by escaping on roads.

I’ve watched a documantary about a revolt in Afgan prison of Taliban fighters
imprisoned there. That revolt was cracked down by Americans and Northern Alliance soldiers.

The American air forces with their super precise weapon missed the necessary targets several times and inflicted losses on Americans and their Afgan allies. There were more Americans killed by American pilots than by Taliban fighters

How many worthless points are you going to make? Of course this happens! The incident in which you’re referring, the US spec. ops and NA fighters were “danger close.” The air strikes also saved most of their lives as they were cut off and temporarily outnumbered…

Again, you’re making arguments that I never have and implying them as my point of view…

He did what he was told to do at Dayton, forced Bosnian Serbs to surrender.

They were treaty negotiations, and the Serbs were on the verge of defeat as they were never really a very good army to begin with and were now disadvantaged when facing a resurgent Croat Army and a more mobile Bosnian force that was able to increasingly find ways around sanctions (unfairly saddling them while the Serbs got whatever they wanted from Yugoslavia)…

It is evident fact that Muslims were much better armed with some rifles otherwise they were never able to wage war or defend Sarajevo, they would have been wiped out within a week.

Why do you keep repeating this idiocy and basic denial of facts. I’ve said that they had rifles and RPGs and infantry weapons such as “RPGs,” but few heavy weapons until the very end. Even then they were outgunned, though they outnumbered the Serbs. Storming Sarajevo would have deprived the Serbs of their significant artillery and armor advantages as tanks are vulnerable in street fighting against superior infantry numbers. That is the reason for the Siege, to avoid bloody Stalingrad-like street fighting…

Oh so it turned out that they had not only old rifles.

I never said “OLD” rifles! Is your translator broken? Or the record?

Americans attacked Serbs when Serbs have almost no means to shoot down American planes. The same happened during the invasion in Iraq. The US seems to be not ashamed of using its military superiority that was much greater than in case of Serbian-muslim conflict in Bosnia

Yet they did shoot down a plane prior to the air strikes!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrkonjić_Grad_incident

The thing is Albanians did’t like to live in the etnical historic Serbian Kosovo as part of Serbia and didn’t want to comply with Serbian laws. What is the problem if somebody returned to Albania. They have their own country. Any emigrant community should either comply with the laws of the original population or leave the state. It is approach shared in any state, including the US.

The film footages with the scenes of murders in Bosnian Srebrinica were broadcast on local state TV a few years.

Because Milosevic began to crack down on ethnicities in the late 1980s and denied them basic human rights…

And the Srebrenica massacres prompted widespread shock when they were first shown, and threats from Serb nationalists, because people were largely blind to the war via state media in Yugoslavia…

#42

LOL. From super-Ukrainian nationalist that hates all other ethnic groups, it now doesn’t matter…

The organized crime in Ukraine it is its venial ruling political and financial groups supported by foreigners among them is the US government

So it’s always someone else’s fault…:lol:

Of course they fund the Afgan government set up by American ruling class and thus cut down the American expenses.

Oh, good one! You know little about Afghanistan I see…

Secondly, this all has nothing to do with the Balkans and is again part of your general complaint and whining mentality…

This thread is getting close to being closed, since you’re just recycling the same strawman arguments and myths…

#43

You know in the Russian language the word democracy resembles the sounding of the word combination that can be translated as shitocracy -
the power of shit. I believe that it perfectly desribes the sence of modern “democratic” system that is imposed on others by the US bureaucrats and their armed forces.

#44

Ukrainians and Russians in Ukraine feel that their rights will be violated under both the “orange” and “blue” governments that actually represent one and the same system.

The minority of Russians mainly voted for the Ukrainain independence in 1991 so your and others’ wishes to paint ordinary Russians in Ukraine as the enemies of Ukrainain state do not correspond to the reality.

You mean Serbia doesn’t “donate” to it’s own population? There were Serbs in the US that “donated” to their families in Yugoslavia during the Wars. So what?

How can Serbia donate after its ecomomy was destroyed by American attacks and interevntion into its affairs. Your hipocracy has no limits.

#45

In the meantime the US democratic love towards other nations has killed tens of thousands civilians in open wars recently and planted political and economic bombs threatening the future existence of whole nations.

I suppose hundreds of millions of people won’t survive from your American and democratic love.

#46

Another internet strawman argument. Again, the KLA was disarmed, and they procecute their criminals like any other state. Are you trying to tell me there’s no organized crime in the Ukraine?

Who will procecute? The commander of the KLA who is the president of Kosovo or the local officials, former KLA officers, who carried out these crimes and organized ethnic cleansing resulting of removing nearly all the non-muslim population including Gypsies from Kosovo?
Or perhaps NATO forces in Kosovo who turned a blind eye at the massive ousting of non-muslims from Kosovo

#47

I cant quite work out if your deliberately trolling or really passionate here Kato. please convince me its the latter, if not I think you may be heading for a more permanent holiday from what is essentially a ww2 site.

#48

Somehow that fits. :smiley:

But the US did not “impose” anything in the Balkans. It was a NATO led operation as outrage permeated throughout Europe and the peacekeepers being shot at by Serb forces were international…

#49

This thread isn’t really about how much you hate your gov’t. As RS* asked earlier, is there anything that would ever make you happy?

Um, most of those wars preexisted, especially in the Balkans, and the the gov’t set up there are regional and under the auspices of local political leaders --not the United States. And I’ve never supported the US Neoconservative goals of “spreading democracy” in places like Iraq. Nor am I a spokesman for a US gov’t in which I’ve often criticized in my own little way. But your criticisms are sort of a litany of complaints that are often ignoring a whole host of other actors such as the UN, EU, NATO, and local political organs. In no way did the US act unilaterally in the Balkans.

But hardly will “hundreds of millions” die as a result. The US has probably saved “hundreds of millions” with some of its more inspired, farsighted projects like the “Marshall Plan” or Berlin Airlift…

Again, more silly exaggerated comments. “Nearly all the non-muslim population” has been removed? Um, the non-Muslim population is still roughly about what it was prior to 1999 (roughly 10%). Some have left, but hardly a large exodus, and many left only recently after Kosovo claimed independence…

Why do you keep persisting in this lie? The non-Muslim population currently exists in Kosovo and only small percentages have left and they certainly have not been driven out on any large scale program of “ethnic cleansing,” though some have left mostly out of fear of Kosovar autonomy…

What are the specific “crimes” committed? And one might as well ask if senior members of the Yugoslav Army, intelligence services, and paramilitaries will also be prosecuted for massacres conducted against civilians or for the killing of civilians indiscriminately during attacks on Kosovar villages? As far as I know, none have yet nor is anyone seeking it. I believe the overall Serb general in command of the Kosovo campaign is now the IJA chief of staff…

Or perhaps NATO forces in Kosovo who turned a blind eye at the massive ousting of non-muslims from Kosovo

It’s hard to see what basically doesn’t exist…

#50

I missed our pogrom. Or should it be pogroms? If I missed one, I suppose I could miss more.

Exactly when and where did we have a pogrom, who were the victims, and what happened?

#51

And Egorka’s source is flawed and criticized by various academics as largely politically partisan criticism of the Clinton administration in the US, and had little to do with any in-depth study…

[b]Obvoiusly your “various academics” are the same who invented lies about the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Clinton lied while testifying under oath about Monika’s blow job. It was a criminal offence to lie under oath but he did not have any consequences for him.

And such patented liars, pieces of **** from the American government and society decide what is right or wrong for others, impose their shitocratic rules and values on others, invade foreign states under entirely slanderous excuses.[/b]

#52

[b]The main cause of massive fleeing of civilians was the NATO bombing campaign and the threat of NATO’s land invasion in Kosovo.

It is natural that civilians wanted to leave the heavily bombed area that could have become the battle field between the land NATO forces and Serbian Army.

That was the real reason. Massive fleeing of civilians would happen in any other region of the world if it were bombed and threatened land invasion by the NATO or anyone else.[/b]

#53

You are a liar just like Bush and Clinton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War#Aftermath

Within three weeks, over 500,000 Albanian refugees had returned home. By November 1999, according to the UN High Commissioner for Refugees, 808,913 out of 848,100 had returned.

However, an estimated 200,000 Serbs fled Kosovo.[53] Gypsies were also driven out after being harassed by Albanians. Since June 12, 1999, as many as 1,000 Serbs and Roma have been murdered or have gone missing as a result of KLA elements and possibly criminal gangs or vengeful individuals.[54][35] The Yugoslav Red Cross had also registered 247,391 mostly Serbian refugees by November. The new exodus was a severe embarrassment to NATO, which had established a peacekeeping force of 45,000 under the auspices of the United Nations Mission In Kosovo (UNMIK).

Some accounts about violent ousting Serns from Kosovo

http://antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=2257

http://www.agitprop.org.au/stopnato/19991224livenasy.php

#54

An article on the topic “Where are Kosovo killing fields?”

http://www.pereplet.ru/text/genocide.html

#55

Bush always calls Putin " my friend". What do you want to say? That Putin is a worse democrat than Bush who with his “academics and experts” falsified reports about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or Clinton who lied under oath and whose administration falsified reports about genocide of Albanians in Kosovo?

#56

The inter-ethnic clashes of Cronulla Beach between Whites and Arabs in December 2005

#57

Mr Kato…
Calm down please …

You are a liar just like Bush and Clinton

Try to be polite for the other here.
I do understand your point and support it to some extend.
BTW have you heard about last scandal with Karla del Ponte?
She told that she knew how the Kosovs ba…rds carved the Serbs hostages into the “spare parts” , and then sold their organs to the West for money?
And she did nothing to judge the Muslim war criminals after that…

#58

The main and often only force that conducted bombings and was to be participated in possible land invasions (if air raids had failed to achieve their goals ) was the US forces. It is clear that European NATO states played an auxiliary role. They would not have acted against Serbs without the US urging.

#59

That was nothing like a pogrom.

By stating at #22 that ‘You don’t understand the meaning of the word pogrom? It is a spontaneous violence on behalf of individuals.’ you show that you’re the one who doesn’t understand the meaning of pogrom, at least as it’s used in English, i.e.

‘an organized massacre of helpless people; specifically : such a massacre of Jews’ http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pogrom

or

‘An organized, often officially encouraged massacre or persecution of a minority group, especially one conducted against Jews.’ http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pogrom

#60

Nick might be many things - misinformed, ignorant, biased, American even - but a liar?.. I think not!

It’s rather good (methinks) to disagree, but watch out for the old blood-pressure, old chap. The only thing you will achieve by ranting, is to alienate those that might be sympathetic to, and otherwise listen to, your argument - only R.S. is allowed to do that! :smiley: :smiley: