The Best Light Machine Gun.

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#401

The Mauser C96 pistol (7.63 Mauser) was sighted to 1000m :shock: I think that wins the prize for hopeless optimism (especially firing an 85gn pistol bullet at 1400fps - even so, it was still one of the most powerful handgun cartridges until the introduction of the .357 Magnum, and certainly the most powerful sub. 44 cal cartridge till then)

The Brownings with the adjustable sights were designed to be used with a shoulder stock and were indeed sighted to 500m:

Good old world.guns.ru:

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg17-e.htm

It’s still hopelessly optimistic though - I know people who used to shoot the normal HiPower at 300yds and could just about consistently hit the 6’ frames at Bisley with them, by aiming at the top of the stopbutt.

#402

That’s remarkably similar to a famous American offr’s last words !
Is JD something not taught on computer games ?

:lol:

#403

Oh, some more sighted ranges I’ve just remembered:

AK-47 - 1000m
SKS carbine - 1000m
M1 carbine - 300m
Stg. 44 - 800m

#404

THIS IS FROM A USMC INSTRUCTOR

THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE M16A2 SERVICE RIFLE
Primary function: Infantry weapon
Manufacturer: Colt Manufacturing and Fabrique Nationale Manufacturing Inc.
Length: 39.63 inches (100.66 centimeters)
Weight, with 30 round magazine: 8.79 pounds (3.99 kilograms)
Bore diameter: 5.56mm (.233 inches)
Maximum effective range:
Area target: 2,624.8 feet (800 meters)
Point target: 1,804.5 feet (550 meters)
Muzzle velocity: 2,800 feet (853 meters) per second
Rates of fire:
Cyclic: 800 rounds per minute
Sustained: 12-15 rounds per minute
Semiautomatic: 45 rounds per minute
Burst: 90 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds
Unit Replacement Cost: $586

http://usmcweapons.com/articles/m16/M16A2NF.htm

This is an extract from the US army M16A2 rifle manual

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/c07.htm#7_10

FM 3-22.9

RIFLE MARKSMANSHIP
M16A1, M16A2/3, M16A4 and M4 CARBINE

This will show a table giving the effective range of the AR

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/c02.htm#t2_1

7-29. MISSION OF THE SQUAD DESIGNATED MARKSMAN
The primary mission of the SDM is to deploy as a member of the rifle squad. The SDM is a vital member of his individual squad and not a squad sniper. He fires and maneuvers with his squad and performs all the duties of the standard rifleman. The SDM has neither the equipment nor training to operate individually or in a small team to engage targets at extended ranges with precision fires.
The secondary mission of the SDM is to engage key targets from 300 to 500 meters with effective, well-aimed fires using the standard weapon system and standard ammunition. He may or may not be equipped with an optic. The SDM must, therefore, possess a thorough understanding and mastery of the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship as well as ballistics, elevation and windage hold-off, sight manipulation, and range estimation.

From slitly further down you will see this

(1) Range Estimation Training. The SDM can use several different methods to determine range to the target to include the 100-meter unit-of-measure method, range card method, front sight post method, appearance of objects method, and the combination method.
(a) 100-Meter Unit-of-Measure Method. To use this method, the SDM must be able to visualize a distance of 100 meters on the ground. For ranges up to 500 meters, the SDM determines the number of 100-meter increments between the two objects he wishes to measure. Beyond 500 meters, he must select a point halfway to the object and determine the number of 100-meter increments to the halfway point, then double it to find the range to the object.
(b) Range Card Method. The SDM can also use a range card to quickly determine ranges throughout the target area. Once a target is detected, the SDM determines where it is located on the card and then reads the proper range to the target.
(c) Front Sight Post Method. Another method to estimate range is by using the front sight post as a scale. Generally, if a man-sized target is 1/2 the width of the front sight post, then he is approximately 300 meters away. If the target is 1/4 the width of the front sight post, then the target is approximately 600 meters away. This method can be used for a quick estimation and engagement.
(d) Appearance of Objects Method. This method is a means of determining range based on the size and visible characteristics of an object. To use this method with any degree of accuracy, the SDM must be familiar with the appearance and visible detail of an object at various ranges. However, some common guidelines can be used in relation to a human target to determine range.
§ At 200 meters a human target is clear and details can be seen.
§ At 300 meters the target is still clear, but no details can be seen.
§ At 400 meters the target’s outline is clear; however, the target itself is blurry.
§ At 500 meters the body tapers and the head disappears.
§ At 600 meters the body resembles a wedge shape.

Now numnuts tell me you can not fire an AR at 600m and no army in the world does. That you could not see to engage targets at 600m. That the 5.56 could not kill at this range. This is from your own army dogbreath.

For the other people who may be interested in US Field Manuals go to this address. They have the lot from brigade doctrine to platoon drills.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/index.html

#405

Stoat

they have all the basic balistic info for the ammo that may be fired with the m16 as well as wind tables. thought you may be interested. also the other manuals have the balistic info for that weapon.

#406

FRIONPAN - has not posted since the invitation to the Army Rumour Service!

I think FRIONPAN hass lost the will to argue, If he had anything to say surely he would ahve said it by now, Unfortunately he hasnt the balls to come to the front of the class and apologise and has shown himself not only to be an ignoramous but a cowardly one at that, not prepared to admit to his mistakes and prefering to ignore his shame rather than resolve it and apologise to those whom he has refered to as

“morons, idiots, kids, liars, fools, children, wannabies, and fakes”

Sorry FRIONPAN my respect for you has now diminshed still further, but at least you have had the sense not to engage this discussion since findong out the credentials of your superiors!

sorry for abusing your forum thread moderators but as FRIONPAN said, we cant let kids that read these forums be misinformed!

#407

I suspect, that he has died by amazement when has seen this weapon. :lol: :lol: :lol:

#408

That is incorrect. How is it arrogant to post a bit of information which is irrefutable historical fact, such as my listing of reasons for Germany’s demise in WWII or the fact that the M1 Carbine was used as an assult rifle countless times and in such a role, because it fits the charactersictics of such a weapon circa WWII,

dont change your story, the claim you made was that it is an assault rifle due to being used in assaults during WWII

we have never contested it was used, we have contested the classification you gave it.

and please provide some verification for this claim.
You will soon run out of scope on this leash and be exposed, retain what dignity you can, by admitting your classificaiton was wrong and does not adhere to anyones definition of beng an assault rifle.
It is a prescribed definition that extends merely beyond usage
Assault rifles have capabilities that the M1 carbine does not - find me a reference point where the M1 carbin matches your criteria and I will eat humble pie.

#409

you can use a pistol as a rifle,or an assault rifle as heavy machinegun.

but at your on risk.

if the germans see you shooting at them with a 22.cal pistol in a distance for a sniper rifle range,they will fuck you.

each weapon has its purpose.

m1 carbine is a light rifle.it`s designed as a light rifle,it shoots as a light rifle,it works like a light rifle.

it`s a light rifle.

#410

excuse me gentleman,im going to hunt some polar bears with a panzerfaust!

#411

That’s fantastic, Erwin - you do have a sense of humour after all! :lol:

#412

What do inuit do at the weekend.

They go Clubbing

(seals - for the slower amongst you)

#413

:smiley: yes,this isn`t a work of the cut and paste lord 8)

#414

That’s fantastic, Erwin - you do have a sense of humour after all! :lol:[/quote]

What do baby seals drink ?

Canadian Club on the rocks…

#415

Erwin, I have repeatedly slated you on here for your strange opinions about the Falklands, but you’ve made up for all of it now.

:lol:

#416

If you hunt Polar bears with a Panzerfaust would it become a Hunting weapon as opposed to an Anti-tank weapons?

#417

I have a correction for you. The M2 Carbine was the world’s first assult rifle.

To be an assult rifle, a weapon must meet the following criteria:

  1. carbine - short length barrel
  2. selective fire - semi or fully automatic
  3. magazine fed
  4. more than 10 round capacity
  5. rifle ammunition
  6. light weight

The M1 Carbine met these requirements, and became available to serviemen in 1942, two years before the MP44, and was the world’s first assult rifle.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=60&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

Mods, if you feel the need, remove all of my posts save for this one which has a huge contradiction in it.
between the start and end of this quote the M1 manages to steal the title of “first assault rifle”
I dont know what weapons were used to assault positions prior to this, maybe there were no Assaults during WWI.
If usage dictates moniker then how come this is the first “assault weapon” what about WWI and the rifles that were used in assaults?
Or is it that assault rifle is not a term derived from usage?

#418

I dont know why you think we would remove all your posts??? There is a PM i sent you that i would like you to answer. Im assuming by changing your sig you have received it.

#419

If you want my reasoning go read my post towards the end of the WHICH LMG thread.

In a duel between an LMG MG42 and crew and Bren and crew - by '43 on, my money would be on the Bren crew. Even in 1940 in France the German’s got a real shock from the BEF’s Bren crews, mostly long-service regulars.

It is MUCH more accurate in use and it’s real concentration of rounds is as good, or better.

The MG42 crew is gonna have a lot more shitty pants moments IMO&E.

The Bren barely moves, in complete contrast to the MG42 / MG3. I would doubt many posting here could really KNOW, as in fired the things OR been in action.

A tripod mounted MG42 is another matter, entirely.

#420

Not fired the Bren, unfortunately, but have fired the MG42 and MG3. Off the bipod I was having difficulty hitting a bowling pin at 100m since the cone of fire was slightly larger than the height of the bowling pin and anything other than short bursts results in the weapon rocking back on the bipod and shooting the floor. This was even doing the trick where you push the weapon forward so that the bipod leans slightly forward, thus during a burst it will initially climb and then drop as it rocks back on the bipod.

Bloody good fun though!