The islam menace.

Lol, so is Cameroon, with barely 20% muslims (who discriminate other beliefs in their territories), so a membership to that club hardly proofs anything.

I think it is. In the same way that Ireland and Italy used to be overtly Catholic and most Western nations are still essentially Christian, except we don’t see it because we don’t notice those elements in our culture (Easter; Christmas; Christian prayers in Parliament; God Bless you if you sneeze; Christian churches all over the place; bishops with mitres and croziers blessing things on important occasions or commenting on moral issues in the news media; evangelical Christian pastors on television; crucifixes on chains around people’s necks; fish symbols and smug ‘Christians aren’t perfect but they’re saved’ bumper stickers on cars; etc, etc). But we notice a hijab or mosque because they’re different, and made much more so courtesy of bin Laden and Co who have about as much to do with mainstream Islam as David Koresh or polygamous Mormons have to do with mainstream Christianity

I also think that Indonesia is a model of an Islamic nation which manages about as well as one opposed relgiously based culture can to engage with another opposed religiously based culture, not to mention rather more significant cultural differences between East and West.

The West is just as much rooted in Christianity in general as Indonesia is in Islam, except we see in them what we can’t recognise in ourselves. And no doubt vice versa.

There have been significant tensions, included armed conflict, between Indonesia and Australia at various points since WWII and there has been mutual suspicion and hostility between us, and there still is at some levels and will be in future and maybe we’ll eventually have a full on war, but the conflicts so far have all been at the usual political levels rather than anything to do with conflict with Islam. Despite the purely cultural and religious-culture differences, we have got on with Indonesia after some extraordinarily difficult periods much better than the West has managed with many Islamic nations so far as outright conflict is concerned.

As the smallest Western population in the world outside Europe and North America and living next door to the largest Muslim population in the world, that suggests that Indonesia as a Muslim / Asian nation isn’t a Muslim menace intent on taking over a Christian / Western nation.

Indonesia is very much more an Islamic country than America is a Christian country judged by numbers of followers of a religion, despite the government and officialdom of the United States of America routinely invoking Christianity to support their actions, e.g. In God we trust http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.html and endless imprecations of God Bless America. Where the motto of the Republic of the United States of Indonesia is ‘Unity in Diversity’. While ‘e pluribus unum’, which had a similar meaning (out of many, one) was the motto of the United States of America until it abandoned the non-religious one and went for the God version in 1956 during the same era that Indonesia went for a non-religious one.

Indonesia is, however, a very moderate Islamic nation even though it has some worrying elements of radical Islam such as Jemaah Islamiya which are part of that region http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/ji.htm

While not free of internal divisions at times, just like every other government, the Indonesian government and particularly the current one under President Yudhoyono has been considerably more active and effective in dealing with such radical elements than, say Pakistan or the eternally duplicitous Saudis who foment Islamic radicalism everywhere they can. Not least because in Indonesia, as in every other Islamic nation, the radical elements are a bigger threat to the established order than anyone else.

Just like crazy fundamentalist Christians in America who want America to support Israel as a pre-condition to the second coming of Christ are just as mad and violent, indirectly by supporting adventures like Iraq if not directly by much smaller adventures like suicide bombing on a bus, and dangerous as Islamic fundamentalists.

Women IN Black

I caught the latter part of this episode when it was aired last week. It was both enlightening and entertaining (and the babes were rather nice), so much so, that I regretted not having caught all of it. However, the series continues this week.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00b94wq

All right,. you may win over OIC thing,.

how you win over Rabin’s opinion?,… he might be killed,. however,. he was considered one of the most succesful israelis leaders that should able to lead his country to peace deal,. and his moved on approaching Indonesia was a right one,…

You go to indonesia,. than you know how muslim Indonesia is,…
as i went to Germany years back, to see how octoberfest effecting the germans,… and to found out that germans are not warmonger huns as used to be pictured decades ago,…

cheers

Of course indonesia is a muslim country, but it’s not islamic. This picture from wiki might give you an idea of what I was talking about, look for the bright green spots.

Islam_attitudes.jpg

What distinguishes a Muslim country from an Islamic one?

True, but the Germans are all drunk at Oktoberfest.

They couldn’t write their names then, never mind make war. :smiley:

:smiley: this new one to me,. :smiley:

however make sense,. this explained on their so called ‘plan orient’
or ultra secret weapon that so secret as it never make appearance,…
or perhaps… SS divisions that was so created to be consisted of germans best sons,. however number of Hindus, Maoris, balkan Muslims and even russians were among them.

i can’t get into the link,. is it wbout a yemen woman? if so,. yes it is very interesting,… she went to meet a Dutch rapper as well

The role of their religion within the structure of the state.

Details?

What role does Islam play in the structure of an Islamic state that it doesn’t play in a Muslim state?

Link says for British only.

So poor old gumalangi and I down at the bottom of the planet don’t qualify. :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

Mate, leave the Maoris out of it. :wink:

They are seriously wild boys, as we know from the way they have colonised parts of Australia, and are best not upset. :smiley:

At best they eat their young. At worst, they’ll eat you. :smiley:

Sir,.

I am not trying to teach you on how my country doing their business,… however the government of Indonesia is so Javanese in style,… everything is so covered up, you must not believe whatever it is at the surface… as a non-javanese,… i was teach not to trust the javanese even when they offering a present,.

Indonesia was never intended to be military led country as myanmar, and military should stay out of politics,. that is why we called ourselves a republic,… but on the actual basis,. if you ever been a military leader before,… most likely your path to governmental leadership is easier,… military still in a strong grip of indonesia political aparatus,… in most of many aspects,. and this untill now still being fight for by reformers,… one of them was Munir,. and he was killed few years back,… and if military is not supporting the current government,. it is almost certain,. that the present government will collapsed,…

and this applied exactly the same to ‘islam’ country of Indonesia,…
Many indonesian chinese tycoons convert themselves into muslim,… eg. lim sio liong,. became mohamad salim,. and one rainforest drestroyer, an illegal logger,. changed his name into bob hasan, and he infact went to mecca with Mr Soeharto (former indonesia President),. they did this was definetely not becouse of their sincere enlightment of Islam as a religion,… however purely business motivated in a country where islam as religion is highly effected the country as a whole,…

I guess we have to stop here with regards to Indonesia,. otherwise,. this will have its own threads,. and am not interested in continuing this arguments,… this getting out of topic,.

Cheers

All blacks is my all time favourite rugby team,… i like their haka before the match,. man!,. they’re awesome,…

i watched the handbag all blacks made by aussies,… so hillarious,. :smiley:

Mate, I will put this as delicately as I can (for I am known on this forum as the soul of delicacy ;)) but WTF are you doing up there watching rugby?

Most of Australia isn’t interested in it!

Admittedly, most of New Zealand is, but that’s only seven people and six million sheep. :smiley:

It is at least the state religion and religious leaders have significant direct influence on all aspects of the political and social life of the countries inhabitants.

So why is that a problem when the English monarch is the head of the Church of England, which is the state religion; the Head of State; the ultimate power in government; and has direct influence on all aspects of the political and social life in her country?

What’s sauce for Lizzie has to be sauce for the mullahs in Iran.

Doesn’t it?

Not to mention the Vatican State.

we are NOT a formal religious state,. HOWEVER indeed,. religious leaders have significant direct influence on most aspects of all you mentioned,…

please sir,… i know my country,. as you do with yours,…
and to be frank,. I am not too happy with those goverment cover up over actual facts,.

Christianity in our national parliament. http://www.australiavotes.org/policies/index.php?topic_ids=6

As someone who doesn’t subscribe to that form of mumbo jumbo, I don’t see why my tax dollars should be paying for it under a constitution which carefully avoids any religious obligation by anyone.

Yet the clowns who run my parliament assure me that this is the system I voted for under the constitution which authorises them to act as my representative in my parliament.

Yeah.

Right!

Why can’t I have Muslim or Scientology or Buddhist or anyone else’s prayers?

Or just no prayers?