The nobel prize winner supports the idea of natural racial inequality

You have none. That’s saved for the people were killed by, or suffer/suffered under Stalin, or Hitler, Amin, Mugabe, Hitler, and anyone else murdered rationalized by political rationales…

No one need it. Nowadays sympathy or hatred to a certain nation or groups of people, or personality among such persons like you can be created by Mass Medias within a week under the slogans of “scientifically” “authenticated” American democracy.

Yup. It’s one giant conspiracy run by four men (or “The Man”) in a back room somewhere…

Serbs were turned into aggressors in their historic original region Kosovo and deprived of this territory.

Despite the innocent men, women and children that happened to live there…

When all the Serbs were driven out from Kosovo by Albanians. Albanians were not branded as aggressors and terrorists by Western Medias.

I think the numbers of ethnic Albanian Kosoves driven out by Serb-led terror was far greater. Though, I would never, ever state that the Serbs were the sole guilty party and the only ones that were murdering civilians in that horrifically vicious conflict (overall, not just in Kosovo) as indeed, I recall the “American media” showing an instance where an entire village of Serbian old women had had their throats cut by Bosnian Muslim “infantrymen.” I was sickened and horrified. Did that make the killing of Muslim men in Srebrenica any more acceptable? Absolutely not. One actually led to another…

Iraq and Saddam were sympathised when they waged war against Iran and were not sympathised when they attacked Kuwait, and later even less sympathised when they did not attack anyone.

I couldn’t agree more…

So don’t tell me about hypocrisy and pro-fascist sympathies.

Your so-called “anti-fascism” is nothing but a form of aggressive conformism aimed at anyone who dares to express his opinion that differs from the official propaganda and brainwashing by medias.

Not true at all. It’s only aimed at those that have some very dark agenda, in which truth is the first casualty. Including those in my own government…

Yup. It’s one giant conspiracy run by four men (or “The Man”) in a back room somewhere…

Nothing about the conspiracy.

Hitler declared War on the US on 15 December 1941.

(Though, there had been some fighting between the US Navy and the Kriegsmarine for almost a year at that point.)

Woah guys.

This is so far off topic here that its gone way off topic. Take it to the threads that are relevant please.

I think the numbers of ethnic Albanian Kosoves driven out by Serb-led terror was far greater.

Out of 200000 Serbs who lived before the foreign internvention in Kosovo remained a few thousands. No mass graves of Albanians were found.

I recall the “American media” showing an instance where an entire village of Serbian old women had had their throats cut by Bosnian Muslim “infantrymen.” I was sickened and horrified. Did that make the killing of Muslim men in Srebrenica any more acceptable? Absolutely not. One actually led to another…

However it did not prevent the USA from the intervention into the conflict on the Mouslem side. They assumed the role of a judge and only aggrevated the situation, causing new victims among civilians.

Not true. Roughly 10,000 Albanians were “found” dead in mass graves (this is without research BTW, so I could be wrong). The number was significantly less than advertised, but not inconsequential nevertheless. And I think there are more Serbs there today than that, though some have fled…

However it did not prevent the USA from the intervention into the conflict on the Mouslem side. They assumed the role of a judge and only aggrevated the situation, causing new victims among civilians.

Well, nothing ever is perfect in war. And yes, there were pricks in the KLA. I do not deny that many Serbs have suffered unjustly. But I don’t think you can solely blame the United States or NATO for this. The “Yugoslavian” gov’t has as much to do with the suffering of her people as anyone…

Righto.

You have been warned.

Drop it and get back to topic. If you want to talk Kosovo, use the appropriate forum. next off topic post here and the thread is locked.

Please dont ignore me this time.

Fine. I’m out…

Yeah, those “evil” Poles that were the first country in WWII to be invaded in anger and were completely conquered! I sort of think this makes any “deals” signed as just irrelevant.

But it meant that Poles collaborated with German Nazi for several years

Poland received a part of Czechoslovakia. Poland signed strategic treaties with Germany.
There had been a number of concentration camps build in Poland by “Germans specialists” prior to 1939. They were mainly filled with Ukrainians and Belorussians suspected in illoyality to Poles.

OK Kato you got you wish if you continue.

And now back to the topic.

Nowadays we see that all the independent African states of Subsaharian Africa can’t satisfy the basic needs of their population, they can’t keep up the minimal educational and scientific level that can enable them to use technologies, infrastructure without foreign assistance. (I don’t speak about contributing to the global technological and scientific development.)

It turns out that the only successful African state in this respect was the Republic of South Africa that had been led by evil white racists by the 1990s.

Before you indict subsaharan Africa, I would ask what “country” that exists today there existed prior to the Age of Imperialism?

And what equivalent Euro-experiments of putting nationalistic/tribal/religious rivals together ever met with success? Yugoslavia?

Which European country was depopulated via slavery?

And I would ask anyone to look back in history, as ask if the “Aryan” Gauls or Anglo-Saxons were in any way superior to the Latin Romans that conquered them? Some of those Romans my in fact have had “African” blood in their veins via Sicily…

Is it race that is really the issue?

It turns out that the only successful African state in this respect was the Republic of South Africa that had been led by evil white racists by the 1990s.

You mean that they’re were successful with using what was essentially little more than second class, almost-slave labor to build a state? Really? Congratulations!

I think every country should have a ready made cheap labor force of people easily exploited and politically marginalized - forbidden to vote, living with no state supported education or social services, and forced to take jobs that paid a fraction of their white countrymen. Yet, the funny thing is, the blacks (previously led by Nelson Mandela) have continued the prosperity of South Africa after controlling things for going on 20 years now. And I don’t think they even eat anybody (except their women-friends) ;)…

BTW, why did the states run by white, Slavs and Caucasians in the Warsaw Pact partially fail economically?

Before you indict subsaharan Africa, I would ask what “country” that exists today there existed prior to the Age of Imperialism?

Ethiopia.

Actually the rest of the negroes did not even come to the stage of some state institutions.
They had tribal organization of their society

And what equivalent Euro-experiments of putting nationalistic/tribal/religious rivals together ever met with success? Yugoslavia?

Switzerland, Belgium, Canada, the UK.

Which European country was depopulated via slavery?

There was serfdom in Europe. The wars in Europe were much more devastating due to higher organizational and technological level

And I would ask anyone to look back in history, as ask if the “Aryan” Gauls or Anglo-Saxons were in any way superior to the Latin Romans that conquered them? Some of those Romans my in fact have had “African” blood in their veins via Sicily…

Is it race that is really the issue?

It is not an argument. The north of Africa and Sicily wasn’t populated by negros.

You mean that they’re were successful with using what was essentially little more than second class, almost-slave labor to build a state? Really? Congratulations!

The rest of Afriacan countries led by blacks has the same almost-slave labor but it does not give any results

I think every country should have a ready made cheap labor force of people easily exploited and politically marginalized - forbidden to vote, living with no state supported education or social services, and forced to take jobs that paid a fraction of their white countrymen. Yet, the funny thing is, the blacks (previously led by Nelson Mandela) have continued the prosperity of South Africa after controlling things for going on 20 years now…

The modern prosperity of South Africa thanks only to the facts that whites remained in the country and continue to work in the spheres that require intellect. The blacks at senior bureaucratic posts (previously led by Nelson Mandela) realise well the intellectual abilities of negros. Therefore they preserved the situation when nearly all the blacks are
cheap labor force that is exploited even more as they had been before the end of racial segregation

BTW, why did the states run by white, Slavs and Caucasians in the Warsaw Pact partially fail economically?

All these states were able to satisfy the basic needs of their people, keep up education, scientific and technological development. Their armed forces posed a real threat to the Nato.

The tribal institutions were largely destroyed or marginalized to varying degrees. And in no way were any borders observed that had anything to do with geography or racial or tribal make up…

Um, Ethiopians are not “blacks,” but are considered racially caucasian. :slight_smile:

And what equivalent Euro-experiments of putting nationalistic/tribal/religious rivals together ever met with success? Yugoslavia?

Switzerland, Belgium, Canada, the UK.

The Swiss are a product of their geography. The mountains serve as a natural barrier and their traditions of three languages was gradually ingrained over time.

There is talk of Belgium partitioning, Canada is not in Europe, but the French were conquered by the British and had no real alternative other than exchanging their British-Canadian “Anglo-phone” overlords for US ones. And most actually did support the failed US invasions of Canada. But even now, there is real talk of partition and possible civil war as Québécoise nationalists have had success over the years of pressing for secession. The UK has also a recent history of national identity crisis as the Scots have pressed for more autonomy and the Northern Irish question of Ulster looks increasingly like a unification with Ireland is inevitable in the future…

here was serfdom in Europe. The wars in Europe were much more devastating due to higher organizational and technological level

But no less frequent than wars anywhere else. And the Congo Wars (where King Leopold metaphorically “raped” the population) has been the scene of some of the most bloody “technological” warfare of the 20th century.

And you cannot compare the wholesale abduction and forced resettlement of peoples with serfdom…

It is not an argument. The north of Africa and Sicily wasn’t populated by negros.

Some would indeed argue that parts of North Africa, including at times during the Egyptian empire, was populated with “Negroes.” And there has long been talk of African blacks settling in Sicily during its tumultuous history. I have no way of “proving” either. But they are theories nevertheless…

I’ve been following this thread with some interest and not a little amusement.
Both sides have been making some errors and perpetuating a couple of myths, but not wishing to hinder the flow I’ve sat watching from the sidelines.

I’m interested to know from where the above information is gleaned, did you visit the Republic of South Africa during the days of Apartheid and have you been there since the release of Madala from Victor Verster or the '94 elections ?

What are your opinions on neighbouring Zimbabwe ?

Okay. But as we say in America: “pot meets tea kettle.” Perhaps I have you confused with someone else, but I’ve seen some of your facts not exactly stand up to scrutiny…

I’m interested to know from where the above information is gleaned, did you visit the Republic of South Africa during the days of Apartheid and have you been there since the release of Madala from Victor Verster or the '94 elections ?

No, I never visited though I have a friend that lives there (that I have no recently spoken too) connected to the diamond trade…

The information was “gleaned” from reading various news sources, internet, The Economist, and just paying attention for the last 20 years…

Which fact do you take umbrage with?

How do you think South African blacks were treated under apartheid?

What are your opinions on neighbouring Zimbabwe ?

I think Mugabe is a fascist, demagogue of a cunt that uses racism against whites, and starvation against blacks, to maintain power he should lose as soon as possible…

Okay. But as we say in America: “pot meets tea kettle.” Perhaps I have you confused with someone else, but I’ve seen some of your facts not exactly stand up to scrutiny…[/quote]
The English use the phrase, “That’s pot calling the kettle black.” :slight_smile:
Perhaps you do have me confused with another, please feel free to inform me which facts you mean.

I’m interested to know from where the above information is gleaned, did you visit the Republic of South Africa during the days of Apartheid and have you been there since the release of Madala from Victor Verster or the '94 elections ?[/quote]

No, I never visited though I have a friend that lives there (that I have no recently spoken too) connected to the diamond trade…

The information was “gleaned” from reading various news sources, internet, The Economist, and just paying attention for the last 20 years…

Which fact do you take umbrage with? [/quote]
I don’t take umbrage with any of these comments, however I do know some are incorrect.
For example, there was in fact state supported education and health care.
The prosperity of which you speak has continued, unfortunately it has continued to decrease with the onset of each poorly organised financial directive from on high.
As to the last light-hearted comment, my black South African friends to a man, express complete horror at the prospect ! :o

Quite an open question, there is vast yardage of large tomes dedicated to the subject.
Do you mean on a political, social or personal level ?

I think Mugabe is a fascist, demagogue of a cunt that uses racism against whites, and starvation against blacks, to maintain power he should lose as soon as possible…[/QUOTE]
I’d have said that he’s merely a tribal leader, a very poor one admittedly, but traditional nonetheless.

Out of interest whereabouts and in which subjects did you teach, and why did you stop ?

Um, Ethiopians are not “blacks,” but are considered racially caucasian.

Schoolboys in western Oromia, Ethiopia.

Firstly, Watson has repudiated his statements…

Friday, Oct. 19, 2007
The Mortification of James Watson
By Laura Blue

Not very long after James Watson finished his Nobel Prize–winning work on the structure of DNA in 1953, he started firing off some eyebrow-raising comments about his fellow man: that fat people don’t get hired because they lack ambition; how sunlight (and darker skin) is the source of the “Latin lover” libido; what he found distasteful in the appearance of his female research collaborator, Rosalind Franklin.

But as the great geneticist slunk back to the U.S. on Friday — his sold-out U.K. tour for his new book called Avoid Boring People: Lessons from a Life in Science canceled after the apparently racist remarks he made to Britain’s Sunday Times Magazine last weekend — it’s clear that Watson’s latest provocation is not one he’ll shrug off lightly. Indeed, Watson, 79, says he is “mortified” by the imbroglio, and apologizes “unreservedly” for the offending comments, in which he suggested black people are not as smart as whites: he told the Sunday Times’ Charlotte Hunt-Grubbe that he is “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa,” since “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours — whereas testing says not really.” Watson also told Hunt-Grubbe, who lived and worked with him as a lab assistant in Long Island a decade ago, that even though he would hope all people are equal in intellectual capacity, “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.”

Condemnation was swift. Watson arrived in the U.K. midweek to promote his new book, which will be out Oct. 22. He was scheduled to speak Friday at the Science Museum in London, but the museum announced the day before that it would cancel the event, as Watson had “gone beyond the point of acceptable debate.” The University of Edinburgh then axed Watson’s scheduled appearance for Monday, calling the scientist’s remarks “entirely incompatible with the spirit” of the lecture series in which he was supposed to participate. And an event organizer in Bristol, which had booked the DNA pioneer for Oct. 24, dropped Watson as well, saying the Sunday Times Magazine remarks were “unacceptably provocative.”

By noon on Friday, a beleaguered Watson had canceled his remaining engagements and was flying back to the U.S. “His decision to leave the country, I believe, was due to things going on at Cold Springs Harbor,” says his publicist Kate Farquhar-Thomson, referring to the Long Island lab where Watson is chancellor. Though Farquhar-Thomson declined to speculate what those “things going on” might be, odds are they include the lab board’s decision yesterday to suspend Watson’s administrative responsibilities.

No one seems more shocked by the statements than James Watson himself. “To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I can only apologize unreservedly,” Watson said in a statement he issued at the Royal Society Thursday. “That is not what I meant. More importantly from my point of view, there is no scientific basis for such a belief.”

And on that much at least, he’s right. For one thing, science has no agreed-upon definition of “race”: however you slice up the population, the categories look pretty arbitrary. For another, science has no agreed-upon definition of “intelligence” either — let alone an agreed-upon method to test it. All kinds of cultural biases have been identified in IQ tests, for example. If there is something fundamental in our brains that regulates our capacity to learn, we have yet to separate its effects from the effects of everything that we experience after we’re born.

Still, even with the offensive and unreasonable remarks that appeared in print, it’s hard not to feel a little bit sorry for Watson. The man Charlotte Hunt-Grubbe describes in The Sunday Times Magazine is less an arrogant bigot than an enthusiastic if misguided old man, someone who does not quite understand that people won’t always take his provocative remarks as innocently as he intended. Even Watson seems shocked by the comments in the magazine. “I cannot understand how I could have said what I am quoted as having said,” he said in yesterday’s statement. (The Times Online reports today that the Sunday Times Magazine interview was recorded and the publication stands behind its story.)

But there was a time about 10 years ago, writes Hunt-Grubbe in her piece, when she, then a lab assistant, found Watson distressed over a British newspaper headline: Abort babies with gay genes, says Nobel winner. Hunt-Grubbe asked Watson about that incident again when they met for their recent interview. “It was a hypothetical thing,” Watson tells her. Someone had asked a question about aborting homosexual babies, and Watson believed mothers “should have the right” to decide when they have a baby. “I was just arguing for the freedom of women to try and have the children they want, not what is right or wrong,” he continues. To be sure, picking and choosing your kids’ traits is controversial enough. But it’s not necessarily prejudicial. Given Watson’s stature in scientific circles and his complete retraction of the Sunday Times Magazine remarks, let’s hope these race comments, too, have been misunderstood, and that Watson is not just an obsolete product of a bygone time.

Time