[QUOTE=Chevan;118612]Oh one more finnish defender here:)
Hi AirdefMike, welcome to the forum.
Thank you…it seems that the Finns still do the defending and Russians the attacking. The irony isn’t lost on me.
The fact that this is probably propogandic photo does not prove that the Concentration camp for civils never existed
Is that a question? That propaganda only proves the Soviet attempt to prove that Finns were of equal evil as the Nazis. For this the Soviets had a clear purpose.
Finns had different kind of camps for different purposes: for prisoners of war and to detain Soviet citizens (the partisan threat). Yes, even the amount of Soviet pows took the Finns by surprise and given the food situation back then the prisoners suffered (as did the detained civilians).
What you don’t know is that the Finnish authorities called for help from the International Red Cross to solve the problems with the camps. Also Swedish reporters were allowed to inspect the camps. Later, these problems were solved according the rules given by the IRC and the mortality dropped.
So there’s one myth busted.
We have a lot of propogandic photos of Auswitz- does it mean it never exist?
Ooh…are you trying to make me look like a nazi…or a holocaust denier? How low of you…but it’s not a surprise given by the vocabulary you use on this forum.
Secondary the other photos, taken from finnis personal archives (see above
page 7 post 97) demonstrate the finnish war crime- the mass shoting of prisoners/pows.
So you do not even try to press the mods/admins here.
Of course there are always warcrimes happening on a smaller scale during a war. You are trying to paint the Finns as Nazis which is quite clear here.
Then lets’ go on
1.The suggestion that Stalin wanted “all Finland”- does not mean that he really ordered the Red Army to execute all his dreams.
The Britan was aimed to attack the USSR in this way.
So the finns narrows-nationalistic view is also pretty laughable.They absolutly ignore the International situation- this is rough mistake
I don’t really know what Stalin dreamt of…I doubt that you do either. The Soviets executed the Molotov-Ribbentropp treaty to the full: Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bessarabia and Finland. Just that is proof enough. In the end SU was the invader.
The other side of the Molotov-Ribbentropp treaty was that the Nazis sold Finland to the Soviet “sphere of influence”. How that relates to your claims of Finnish-Nazi friendship? Do you think that our leaders back then didn’t smell anything fishy? If you don’t…I’d call it “narrow”. In the same way the Soviet Union sold the free Western democracies to the Nazi “sphere of influence”.
Is the so called “narrow Finnish nationalistic view” worse than the present Russian nationalistic view which defends the actions of Stalin’s tyranny against smaller neighbours? This is defending war communism actually.
2.Poor knowledge of Winter War?
Let me notice you one interesting fact that you , having poor knowledge of history , simply do not know.
Between the 1918-1939 we have at least TWO wars when Finns were agressorsSee posts above from Wiki and maps.
You show your poor knowledge of Winter and Continuation Wars here constantly…to be more to the point, you just post the official Soviet history of WW2.
Funny that you mention the 1918 -1939 era. The Finnish Civil War…hmm…what where Soviet-Russian troops and military advisors doing in the ranks of the revolutionary reds? (and elsewhere in eastern Europe?) Finland and Soviet Union were in a middle of de facto (undeclared) war until the treaty of Dorpat.
I’ve taken my time here reading these forums before I posted…so infact I’m very familiar how you use the (still pretty unreliable) Wikipedia. You use only snippets which can be used to reinforce you claims and ignore the facts which might refute them.
3.But during war 1941-44 the finns also took the territory, much more further then finnish borders till the 1939. see map again. They’ve captured whole Russian Karelia.
Yep, that’s correct. Finnish army of Karelia occupied defensible line connected by lakes. Its’ called the line of 3 isthmuses. It was thought be a good defensible ground to await the decisive Soviet attack which would eventually settle the war(s). But this isn’t really the answer to the point I made, now isn’t it? So you haven’t really answered to it.
4.Not just STalin but also and Britan and USA was concerned about Finnish-Nazy friendship since the 1940.
Lol! Stalin was concerned about “Finnish - Nazi friendship”? This is hilarious!
Maybe Stalin really shouldn’t have invaded Finland back in 39 it seems. Britain (and the Commonwealth) declared war on Finland only to please Stalin. I wonder why the Brits didn’t have any demands at the peace table from Finland?
The finns supplied Germany with nickel of Petsamo- the very importains material for German military industry.As you may be know the Britan lead the war with Germany in this period.
Nickel was a precious commodity in the world back then. It was very unlucky for Finland that the deposit was discovered. That nickel pretty much guaranteed the unwelcomed Soviet and German interests towards Finland.
When Finland was at peace, the country can trade whatever with whoever it can. But unfortunately, we needed arms and food and Germany was the only provider available because they’ve invaded and conquered Scandinavia.
As far as Great Britain is concerned, they left Finland alone during Winter War and during times of such difficulties, a country has look for it’s own first.
The diplomatic pressure from all of side was absolutly explained.
A good idea for you to think about. Why did the Soviets pressure Finland during the Interim peace?
And again your accusation at Stalin agressive planns toward Finland also simply ignore the importains International events( see decision Allies in Tehrain about post-war fate of Finland)
Now did I? The Allies agreed on surrender terms for the Axis countries in Teheran. The main rule was “unconditional surrender” with 2 exceptions: Finland and Romania. Roosevelt argued with Stalin that Finland can be persuaded away from the fighting. Hmm…lets see what happened: Romania was invaded by SU and occupied. And what happened with Finland?
3 days after Normandy landings (while the western allies’ eyes were fixated there) Soviet Union launched the 4th Strategic Offensive against the Finns to reach the Kymi-river deep in Finland and to crush the Finnish army completely.
Isn’t that a wee bit aggressive? Noooh…it was just the friendly neighbourhood Uncle Joe sending his liberators into Finland again.
5No it can’t be even argued.
The Finns pretty well let the GErman to use its territory for the GErmans Army to attack the North of USSR and also provided wih airfields for GErmans bombers.
Actually it can be argued. I’ve seen the Soviet mission orders for their bombers. It’s in the records and in the net. Look it up. I heartily recommend it. In fact those Soviet bombers in Finnish airspace are both in Finnish and Soviet records. Must be the truth then. 
The German troops on Finnish soil didn’t commence their attack until Finland did. That was a demand from the Finnish government to which the Germans complied.
So beeing the ally of NAzy since the first days of war ( although the war in the North has beed started week later 28 june) fiins could not claim that war was started “coz the Soviet bombed first”.
Look above…you just helped to prove my point. And the Finns and the Nazies weren’t allies. This is Soviet propaganda…funny how it still exists.
This is nonsense.
COz the GErman army has been already on the finnish territory.
But so was the glorious liberators of Reddish Army of workers and peasants…right there on Finnish soil: Hanko, Salla, Viipuri (our 2nd largest city) …the friggin whole of the Isthmus.
So…where’s the nonsense?
The problem with the discussions with Russians is that the Soviet propaganda has painted the Finns with the same colour as the German nazies.
Finland was a democracy…Nazi germany was a tyranny (as was SU). There’s a difference.
How Finland could not be an ally of Germany back then? The answer is very simple: The aim of the German foreign policy during the Continuation War towards Finland was to tie Finland very close to Germany and to it’s eventual faith (downfall). Ie. they wanted an alliance which never happened. This is documented and the truth. Luckily for us…our leaders needed the room of manouver in international diplomacy and never consented to an alliance. Thus the Finns and the Germans were co-belligerents.
The whole of case Finland can be expained very simply: Finland, the smallest democracy in Europe was invaded by Soviet Union (thus breaking the non-aggression treaty).
The Finnish Army fired shots in anger during the course of WW2 against soldiers of 2 countries: Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. The biggest tyrannies in the world.
