The Ukrainian Insurgent Army

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#181

Do not a begin it again.
The Cllass stragle was in a basis of soviet inner policy till the 1933- you know it.
In the beginning of the collectivisation was aimed to destroy the class enemies among peasants- the kulaks ( the more richest layer of the peasants).
Thus the collectivitation has bagan fromt the De-kulakizasion whao was declared as class enemies.

Nonsence.
There were no landlords or rich at that time there were poor farmers who were not class enemies and their fortunes practically does not differ. And the
The soviet punative machine was aimed at destroying Ukrainians who refused to obey the Soviets and become Soviet slaves. There wr

#182

Yes. Only Ukraina will be Ukraine

#183

A bullshit.
not farmers ( more exactly peasants) but KULAKS were the class enemies.
And soviet punitiva mashin was amed to destroy it’s class enemies - not the Ukrainians, Riussians or ets. ( except the some of the criminal elements like Banderovtsy and ets), my dear former Soviet slave;)

If they was wanted tho destroy whole population -by whom will they rule?

#184

What is that “separate law” different from the State’s constitution that was supposed to deal with the Jews citizenship?

#185

A bullshit.
not farmers ( more exactly peasants) but KULAKS were the class enemies.
And soviet punitiva mashin was amed to destroy it’s class enemies - not the Ukrainians, Riussians or ets. ( except the some of the criminal elements like Banderovtsy and ets), my dear former Soviet slave

If they was wanted tho destroy whole population -by whom will they rule?

I repeat the fortunes of farmers did not differ essentially at that time. All those who refused to join Kolhozs and were not intimidated were branded as Kulaks. The number of such people in Ukraine, Kuban, Don regions were much higher than in the Russian ethnical regions of central Russia.

#186

And why would they refuse to join Kolshos if they were not Kulaks, but poor peasant?
And what was it the ethnical regions in Don and Kuban that are differs of the centrall russia ?
Wjho lived there if not russians?

#187

Soviet slave is not an exaggeration. How would you call a person who does not have any private property, does not have any interior USSR passports and therefore is restricted to move across their own state, and works for a song ( the wages of kolhoz workers were symbolyc during 1930-50)?

#188

And why would they refuse to join Kolshos if they were not Kulaks, but poor peasant?
And what was it the ethnical regions in Don and Kuban that are differs of the centrall russia ?

Kuban was mainly polpulated by Ukrainian descendants before Holodomor. Don cossacks never wanted to be associated with Russian peasants, whom they openly despised.

The thing is that the most poor farmers and peasants realise that they would become even more poor in Kolhozs but not everyone dared to oppose the Soviets. Of course, some people volonteered to collaborate with the Soviets in their collectivisation but mainly those who wanted to drop farming and start the career in the Soviet bureaucratic and punitive structures.

#189

What is that “separate law” different from the State’s constitution that was supposed to deal with the Jews citizenship?

The draft of the constitution stated that the issue of granting citizenship to jews was regulated by a seperate law that was to be elaborated later.

#190

Oh sure the Ukrainians are everywhere:D
Ukraine descendants in in Kuban lived here already 150 years and all of them told about themself as the Russian Cossacs Kato.
Besides my ethnically clear russian ancestrors lived here since 1870-yy and i never believed that the people in Kuban associate themself with a “Ukraine”.
And you lie about Don cossacs, they never despise the russian peasants as and ukrainian.
They all were the Russian cossacs ( who sweared for imperor)

The thing is that the most poor farmers and peasants realise that they would become even more poor in Kolhozs but not everyone dared to oppose the Soviets. Of course, some people volonteered to collaborate with the Soviets in their collectivisation but mainly those who wanted to drop farming and start the career in the Soviet bureaucratic and punitive structures.

I can’t agree Kato.
The most poorest peasants lived in Centrall russia - coz there a poor land.
In the Ukraine and Kuban is the black soil ( shernozen) - that is more reach and useful.
Therefor in the Kuban and Ukraine lived the more rich peasants always.
The relation to the collectivisation was’t the same in those areas- the poorest central regions has got rather profit then the problems from collectivisation.
The peasants in Kuban and Ukraine have meet the collectivisation mostly hostilely- there were the OBVIOUS reason - they did not want to go into Kolhoz and they did not need to use a tractors and ets coz they HAVE enought harvest every year.
The firsts profit of collectivisation has appear already in the 1934 - when Soviets got a first money for the industrialisation of the state.Thay has bagan to build the plants and ets.

#191

Yea later when Nazy has “liberated” the Ukraine the question with jews would be solved quickly and effectively:D
Already in the 1941.
Later in 1943-1944 the question with Poles ( and Moskals) would be “solved” also. :wink:

#192

Off topic:

Kato, do you agree with this statement made by (possibly) one of your comrads:

Есть основания считать, что мировая культура зародилась именно в “Праукраине”. Первое колесо, первое приручение коня - все из “Праукарины”. А не из Китая, как считают некоторые. Это в “Пракитае” оттуда из “Праукраины”.
Я это серьёзно. Могу доказать.

Can you translate it to English so that our fereighn friends can have a good time? :wink:

#193

Can you translate it to English so that our fereighn friends can have a good time?

I think you should address the author of this statement and ask to explain the grounds for his opinions, besides as it is written in Russian it can be made by your Russian comarades. If Russians insist on it I won’t be objecting.

#194

Yes we ask you , please mst Kato:)
This should be a great matter of fun for all of us.:slight_smile:

#195

If it went about Germans, Japaneses, Arabs inventing a wheel it wouldn’t be that fun for you?
I bet you would seriously take it.

#196

Well I actually would be puzzled about Germans inventing the wheel. And also Jepanese.
And I assure you that it is not a hoax. This is the guy who sais it: http://pan-andriy.livejournal.com/

He sais it here: http://pioneer-lj.livejournal.com/1015597.html?thread=28033581#t28033581

I like the best this part: “There are grounds to think the the world culture was conceived namely in proto-Ukraine.”

Kato, really, no offence, but I could not help mentioning this here. :slight_smile:

#197

The issues of prehistoric cultural development is off the topic of the thread.

#198

Yes, I know that.
I am asking why a separate law for Jews?

#199

The status of jews was regulated in the Russian Empire seperately as well.
Evidently because they are special.

#200

What is special in the jews Kato?