The warsaw Rising Of 1944

I fail to understand why Chevan made up his mind that Kaminski Brigade was manned with Ukrainians.

According to his link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaminski_Brigade

Kaminski brigade is 29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS RONA (1st Russian) - an anti-partisan formation made of the people from so-called Lokot Autonomy (located in the Russian Briansk region). It was made up of Russians and some Byelorusians.

Its commander Bronislav Vladislavovich Kaminski was of Polish-German origin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronislav_Kaminski

Kaminski and his head group of men were executed after trial by Nazi court martial in Litzmannstadt(Łódź). They were tried for stealing the property of the Reich because Kaminski and his men had tried to keep the confiscated property of Poles in Warsaw for themselves.

You have missed to understand, becouse i never told that Kaminski brigade was manned with Ukrainians.
It was actualy manned by SS:)

According to his link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaminski_Brigade

Kaminski brigade is 29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS RONA (1st Russian) - an anti-partisan formation made of the people from so-called Lokot Autonomy (located in the Russian Briansk region). It was made up of Russians and some Byelorusians.

The Kaminski Brigade was a just a small part of former RONA , mixed with “voluntaries” from Belorussia and Ukraine.
http://bka-roa.chat.ru/rona_kaminski.htm

2 августа 1944 г. в Варшаве вспыхнуло восстание, на подавление которого немцы бросили крупные силы сухопутных войск, СС и полиции. Из каждого полка РОНА было выделено по 300-400 добровольцев, которые под командованием подполковника (оберштурмбаннфю-рера СС) Фролова были введены в польскую столицу. Для Каминского и его солдат уличные бои в большом городе были непривычны, и группа РОНА несла большие потери. Это, в свою очередь, оборачивалось общим падением дисциплины, грабежами и насилием в отношении мирного населения.

So the every regiment of RONA send 300-400 of “voluntaries” to pacificate the Warsaw uprising.
Those were a real beasts who hated the Poles.
Guess who did hate poles in 1944 more then others?( after Volun 1943)
But if you wish , we can re-formulate the initial sentence - Brigade Kaminski was a RENEGADE Ukrainians, Russians and Belorussians beast who lost any human look.
You know, i don’t even care about those RONA, ROA , “nazi-Cossacs” and other bastards who fought for “free Russia” .They were just a shameful traitors.
But you , seems, are not ?

The Kaminski Brigade was mainly manned with Russians who lived in autonomous Lokot Republic in the Russian Bryank region , later when the brigade was withdrawn to Lepel area in Belarus it was reinforced by local Belorusian volonteers.

In March 1944, the brigade was renamed Volksheer-Brigade Kaminski for a brief period, before it was absorbed as a part of the Waffen-SS in June 1944. With its transfer to the Waffen-SS, the brigade was renamed Waffen-Sturm-Brigade RONA, and Kaminski was given the rank of Waffen-Brigadeführer der SS, as the only man with such rank. Plans were made for a Russian/Byelorussian SS Division, and the structure was laid down for the 29.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (russische Nr.1).

So the every regiment of RONA send 300-400 of “voluntaries” to pacificate the Warsaw uprising.
Those were a real beasts who hated the Poles.
Guess who did hate poles in 1944 more then others?( after Volun 1943)

The fact is that there were no Ukrainian SS or police units participating in the
in the crushing of the Warsaw uprising.

But if you wish , we can re-formulate the initial sentence - Brigade Kaminski was a RENEGADE Ukrainians, Russians and Belorussians beast who lost any human look.

This RONA brigade was mainly manned with Russian and some number of Belorusians. Perhaps some other nationals could be in its ranks like Polish-German Kaminski but as an exception to the general rule and the fact that it was a Russian national SS unit.

You know, i don’t even care about those RONA, ROA , “nazi-Cossacs” and other bastards who fought for “free Russia” .They were just a shameful traitors.
But you , seems, are not ?

Treasons and deceits were the second nature of Stalin and his high-rank commies, their main method to seize and keep power. Bolsheviks came to power as a result of overthrowing the legitimate government in Russia and in other countries of the former tsar empire. So the term “traitor” could be applied to those who fought on behalf of the Soviets unless the German self-damaging policy in the attitude to POWs and in the relations with the nations living withing the USSR.

The appearance of RONA, ROA and “Nazi” cossacks was caused by communists’ regime. There would have been much more of anti-Soviet forces enough to overthrow the Soviet government if German Eastern policy had not been short-sighted and self-damaging.

Not true. There was an Ukrainian unit fighting in Warsaw Uprising.
So-called Ukrainian Self-Defence Legion, fighting in Czerniakow area between 15-23 of September 1944 against Home Army groups “Radoslaw” and “Kryska” and elements of 9th Inf. Div. of Polish People’s Army.

Of course mate.
If the our friend Kato finaly has opened te Wiki fro himself (thanks god he don’t deny the Volun massacre any more)as a single realible sourse
This positive fact can’t prevent us from the studying of the history, using the other sources, including the Polish.
We know for sure that some our “Ukrainian policemans” behaive themself as a natural beasts toward the poles, belorussians and russians.And this is not just a “Soviet propogand” as mr Kato would like to belive:)
So hardly our friend Kato has a poit that the UPA/ukrainian colloborationists didn’t killed other slavs.( or even didn’t pacificated the Warsaw uprising).
The “Ukrainiian” voluntaries were a very useful for nazis.
For instance we know fro sure what has done the sadly known ukrainain Wafen-SS brigade Galicia in Yougoslavia in 1944.
How they “fought against bolshevism” , slaugthering the local civils.
But this is quite other tread.

I doubt you have studied any Polish sources. The Volyn massacre was an interethnic conflict where both sides suffered losses and none of the sides can be blamed for it alone or more than other. It is the position of both Polish and Ukrainian historians and governments that was reflected in the common official statement regarding events in Volyn adopted by both state parliaments.

Unfortunately, Mr Chevan don’t even know the correct name of the unit. The was not any brigade “Galicia”.

14th Grenadier Division of the Waffen SS ‘Galicia’ mainly fought in the Eastern front. In the end of January 1945 it participated in one of campaigns against Tito’s partisans while maintaining friendly relations with Serbia’s anti-communist Chetnik guerrillas. There were no proven cases or concrete evidence of war crimes commited by the members of the division. In the meantime there are a host of clear and concrete evidence of war crimes and mass murders of civilians commited by Tito’s partisans that are not called in question by any sober-minded person within the former Yugoslavia and beyond today.

The Canadian “Commission of Inquiry on War Crimes” of October 1986, by the Honourable Justice Jules Deschênes concluded that

While in [POW camps in] Italy these men were screened by Soviet and British missions and neither then nor subsequently has any evidence brought to light which would suggest that any of them fought against the Western Allies or engaged in crimes against humanity. Their behaviour since they came to this country has been good and they have never indicated in any way that they are infected with any trace of Nazi ideology… From the reports of the special mission set up by the War Office to screen these men it seems clear that they volunteered to fight against the Red Army from nationalistic motives which were given greater impetus by the behaviour of the Soviet authorities during their earlier occupation of Ukraine. Although Communist propaganda has constantly attempted to depict these, like so many other refugees, as “quislings” and “war criminals” it is interesting to note that no specific charges of war crimes have been made by the Soviet or any other Government against any member of this group.

The Deschênes Commission went on to explain that:

56- The Galicia Division (14. Waffengrenadierdivision der SS [gal. #1]) should not be indicted as a group. 57- The members of Galicia Division were individually screened for security purposes before admission to Canada. 58- Charges of war crimes of Galicia Division have never been substantiated, either in 1950 when they were first preferred, or in 1984 when they were renewed, or before this Commission. 59- Further, in the absence of evidence of participation or knowledge of specific war crimes, mere membership in the Galicia Division is insufficient to justify prosecution. 60- No case can be made against members of Galicia Division for revocation of citizenship or deportation since the Canadian authorities were fully aware of the relevant facts in 1950 and admission to Canada was not granted them because of any false representation, or fraud, or concealment of material circumstances. 61- In any event, of the 217 officers of the Galicia Division denounced by Mr. Simon Wiesenthal to the Canadian government, 187 (i.e., 86 percent never set foot in Canada, 11 have died in Canada, 2 have left for another country, no prima facie case has been established against 16 and the last one could not be located.[3]

The British Scotland Yard conducted a number of investigations about the activities of Ukrainians from Galicia Division during WWII including those denounced by Simon Wiesenthal center and found all the accusations made against the division and its members irrelevant or false. In most cases the division were accused of committing war crimes in places where it had never been.

The reality is that 14th Grenadier Division of the Waffen SS ‘Galicia’ were accused of nearly every other atrocity committed in the Eastern Europe by the Soviet propaganda.
As a result of it the activities of 14th Grenadier Division of the Waffen SS ‘Galicia’ and its members were thorougly investigated by legal authorities, independant commissions, securiy services and police of a number of countries across the world like any other unit of WWII. None of Ukrainianis who served in the divisions have been found guilty of committing any sort of crimes in WWII.

So Mr. Chevan you’d better pick up the members of some other WWII unit for accusing them of war crimes. You may search for them in the ranks of NKVD and the Red Army as there have been no comparable (at least to some extent) investigations about war crimes committed by the Soviet troops during WWII and after it in Ukraine, Baltic states, Germany and the Eastern Europe on the whole. In their search for “justice” the Soviets were eager to produce propagandistic shit. It is not my conclusion, it is the conclusion of numerous unrelated investigations about the division “Galicia” conducted in different countries in different periods of time.

It is interesting that our Soviet patriot Chevan is so much preoccupied with the destiny of Poles in Warsaw. Though he as a Soviet patriot should know that this uprising was not so much anti-German as anti-Soviet. The anti-commumnistic Armija Krajowa wanted to seize control over the Polish capital and near-by areas while the axis troops contained the Soviet offensive. In case of success Armija Krajowa intended to bring back the Polish pre-war government from London and restore the pre-war administration at least in the ethnic Polish territories. Of course, Stalin ordered to stop the offensive to let Wermacht and SS solve the issue. Here SS and Wermacht unintentially helped the Soviets to avoid serious complications or very probable complete loss control over the post-war Poland.

Can you imagine the zone of the Soviet influence in the eastern Europe without Poland?
It would resemble some bow surrounded by hostile states. The Soviets would have been in disadvatageous strategic position and lost control over the the Eatsern Europe much earlier if the Poles in Warsaw had succeeded. It would have been a nightmare for Soviet patriots.

Hi everyone,
during 64th anniversary of Warsaw Uprising, on 9th of August was organised a reenactment which reveal people last days of July 1944 and all Uprising in Mokotów district, from 1 August to 28 September - not to 2 of October because capitulation of this district was earlier. Audience seen fighting and life during uprising like oath of new members of Armia Krajowa, funeral and even a surgery of wounded insurgent. And autentic events, like arrival of soldiers of Zgrupowanie “Radosław” through sewers afer fall of Czerniaków bridgehead (yes, they were actually coming out from sewers!), or massacre of orphans after capitulation of district. There were over 300 reenactors from all country, and even from Slovakia. It was a biggest Warsaw Uprising reenactment in history. And, there was even a German television which was filming all this!

Here you can couple of galleries from reenactment and rehersals:
http://www.czyzewski.waw.pl/galeria/categories.php?cat_id=75

http://www.czyzewski.waw.pl/galeria/categories.php?cat_id=74

http://picasaweb.google.com/krzysztof.radzikowski/9SierpniaPt1

http://picasaweb.google.com/krzysztof.radzikowski/9SierpniaPt2

http://picasaweb.google.com/krzysztof.radzikowski/9SierpniaPt3

http://jacek66.zenfolio.com/p586831210

http://picasaweb.google.com/bartlomiejagresywny01/Powstanie44

http://www.adidigit-all.com/html/Powstanie/

http://picasaweb.google.com/spadpl/Powstanie44MokotW

http://picasaweb.google.pl/mariaweronika1706/WyjCieZKanaWPrzyUlDworkowejRekonstrukcja

http://www.grh-parasol.pl/galeria08_2.html

http://picasaweb.google.pl/rozjo1/RekonstrukcjaMokotW09082008GERMASCYOPRAWCY

And couple of movies:
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=3q4gACFpUxc&feature=related

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=QiQ6XFph7rg&feature=related

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=W_RPLCwpGkc&feature=related

i never knew this this is so interesting

I post below the pics I did last summer in Warsaw Uprising Museum.





































“We are not alone” - a classic example of cruel irony of fate.





“Look out! The Germans!”

“Kubus” - Kubus was a Polish WWII armoured car, made by the Home Army during the Warsaw Uprising. A single copy was built on the chassis of a Chevrolet 157 van and took part in the fights. Currently there are two copies preserved, one is the original Kubuś restored after the war and held in the Polish Army Museum, the other one is a full-scale replica built for the Warsaw Rising Museum.
source: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Kubuś?uselang=pl