The administration is not the puppet, george bush is a puppet for others in the administration (cheney would come to mind) and several highly influential lobbies from my perspective. It’s an internal american affair, not some worldspanning conspiracy crap.
Loddy in America forced Bush to make a unpopular policy in the USA?
What highly influential lobbies do you mean?
Oil and arms seem to have profited a lot from his decisions.
But they should be stopid to send the troops for the oill. The war in Iraq increase the oil prices in several times.
This is unfavourable for US economy
High oil prices might be bad for the overall economy, but the oil companies make more money than ever. They sell the same amount of stuff for simply more profit.
You seem to make the assumption that everyone looks for the big picture, which is a little naive imho. The oil price development could easily be predicted by anyone who thought just 1 minute about consequences of gulfwar3 and that alone could possibly make it profitable enough for rather ruthless people who only see their interests to push for action, getting a grip on even more oil could therefore be considered a bonus which would make it even more interesting. The US government knew there were no WOMD or alqaeda terrorists in Iraq and no one really believes the spreading democracy excuse given US track record of working with dictators, so there has to be some reason for an intervention and the most logical and obvious is money. It’s what makes the world go round, always has always will as long as humans populate it.
But this is pure anti-state conspiracy that make injury for the US nation;)
Some companies make a money while the rest of the people get the problems;)
I can’t believed the US goc is so stopid to let this war go for the oil.
You seem to make the assumption that everyone looks for the big picture, which is a little naive imho. The oil price development could easily be predicted by anyone who thought just 1 minute about consequences of gulfwar3 and that alone could possibly make it profitable enough for rather ruthless people who only see their interests to push for action, getting a grip on even more oil could therefore be considered a bonus which would make it even more interesting. The US government knew there were no WOMD or alqaeda terrorists in Iraq and no one really believes the spreading democracy excuse given US track record of working with dictators, so there has to be some reason for an intervention and the most logical and obvious is money. It’s what makes the world go round, always has always will as long as humans populate it.
But is this ONLY for oil?
Is there no other pure political reason to invide the Iraq. May be to support some of its’ ally in the Near East?
Why do you believe people in governments always have their countries best interest in mind? It’s what they are supposed to do, what they actually do is on a completely different page. It has nothing to do with stupidity either, it’s more about greed and other human qualities in that class. I fail to see any political benefits for countries in the region, not even for Israel which I assume was the point of your allusion. They too have or should have a high interest in stability in their immediate neighborhood. An openly hostile but rather harmless saddam in iraq who also acted as a buffer against iran was a much more controllable and calculatable risk than the civil war that seems to be even spreading now.
So, Bush was stupid. And your point is? 
This is unfavourable for US economy
Nobody in government in any country gives a stuff about the national economy, in the sense of benefiting everyone. Whoever happens to be in government prefers certain interests. Sometimes it’s really naked like Mugabe or Hussein, other times it’s less naked like Western democracies where they can’t get away with as much, but Western conservatives always screw workers while democrats / Western socialists usually screw themselves and workers in the process of trying to screw the rich.
How is it favourable for the ‘US economy’ to divert corn production and arable land from grain feed for protein animals and other uses to ethanol as a gasoline substitute or additive? Good for some major corn producers, not so good on national economic and environmental grounds.
Oil’s no different.
What makes you think it’s just about Iraq’s oil?
Where are the oilfields outside Iraq and, more importantly, the ports to transport oil?
Central Asia is one of the major sources of oil not previously available to the West, and the US in particular. http://www.hri.org/MFA/thesis/winter98/geopolitics.html [I’m not putting forward this and later links as objective or even reliable, but there’s a ton of commentary and analysis to the same effect. They’re just examples.] What’s the problem there? Where are the ports controlled by the West? Not in the Caspian Sea, and not in energy hungry China where pipelines could go to and finish.
Have a look at this map. http://www.worldpress.org/specials/pp/pipelines.htm How does the US / West get Central Asian oil to ports in seas it controls or can use? Well, if it controls Iran it avoids the need to go through unstable Pakistan which in time will quite likely fall to a Taliban type of government. Gee, and where is Bush proposing to go next, before he finishes his lame duck presidency, because it might have missiles that can reach the US in eight years? Mightn’t it be better to leave Iran to the next president who’ll have plenty of time to deal with it? Or might that not be in the interests of the oil crew that Bush, Cheney and Co represent, as distinct from the ‘US economy’?
What has US oil company Unocal been doing for years?l http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=central+asian+oil+unocal&meta=
Why does the US have bases in Central Asia, with airbases in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan? http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jul2005/base-j30.shtml Does that put the US conveniently across major gas and oil supply lines to China and Russia?
Dig into it deeper.
Iraq is just one of the squares on the chess board, an early move in a long and complicated game.
It’s particularly interesting that you as a russian citizens don’t see the importance of oil and gas to people in leading political positions while your government even blackmails other nations and tries to make claims with stupid PR actions on the north pole about it.
Oh did i miss something?
My gov blackmails the nations? What a nations do you mean?Does Putin threat somebody by the russian army?
Stupid PR action???
No mate. My point is this look like an idiootism from a side.
But as Drake says this is not so simply like it look:)
So i just worry about - what is the real reason of Bush policy?Lobby, Oil, geopolitic or the something else;)
Dig into it deeper.
Iraq is just one of the squares on the chess board, an early move in a long and complicated game.
So you say the Iraq is just the first step of great geopolitic chess.( the battle for resources of Asia) So what will the next step?More exactly WHO will the next?
If the first step has bring the world economy to the oil-famine. What would be the final resaulf of this GAME?
Third world nuclear war?:shock:
Do you really think that the first step cost a such great people life price:)
Bush is making all the right noises for Iran to be next. It’s the next ‘logical’ step. He seems to want to do it before he goes out of office.
If the first step has bring the world economy to the oil-famine. What would be the final resaulf of this GAME?
Third world nuclear war?:shock:
No idea.
There’s lots of possibilities, but no clear result. Too many combinations and permutations.
The rise of China and India will be factors that are much more important as time goes on.
The history of Bush’s administration is that they act first and think later so far as long term consequences are concerned. Iraq is a perfect example of not being prepared for the way things could turn out as distinct from the way the neo-cons wanted to believe they would, both militarily and on the response of the Iraqis and others. They built their invasion on a fantasy they wanted to believe and thought their fantasy of how it would turn out was a guaranteed reality.
Same with the Kurds. Say Bush fires off the missiles to keep Turkey out of Iraq. How fond is that going to make the Kurds of the US? What are the consequences for the US of then having Kurds who are hostile to it, determined to avenge what they’ll see as the deaths of innocents? America will just start to dig the Iraq hole deeper, right when there’s some sign that things might be improving finally. Only Bush could snatch defeat from the (presently pretty weak) jaws of victory with such stupidity.
It’s precisely the sort of stupidity that’s required to go into Iran, and really inflame the region and the wider world. I have every confidence that Bush and Co are more than stupid enough to do it. They don’t learn from their mistakes, which is one quality of a complete idiot.
Hmm, planting a flag on the bottom of the sea at the north pole is a pretty stupid pr action, didn’t they report about it in russia, was a couple of weeks ago. And shutting down gas pipelines to neighboring countries or threatening to do so to achieve something despite existing contracts is blackmail, what else would you call it?
Russian diplomacy?
Like Kruschev banging his shoe on the desk in the UN, while shouting “We will bury you.”
Oh you are about it;)
Was it stopid?
Perhaps it was . At least it was no more stopid than to install the American flag on the Moon, or national flags on the science-research stations on the Southern Pole:D
Does it a stopid PR actions in your mind too?
And shutting down gas pipelines to neighboring countries or threatening to do so to achieve something despite existing contracts is blackmail, what else would you call it?
Blackmails by the gas pipelines:) are you kidding?
May i ask you - would you sell me the Mersedes-Bentz that costs in Europe $100 000 for 20 000, just coz i have not any more.?Especially if i continie to insult you and complain to the local criminal boss ( NATO , USA, Eerope or ets) that this is a “blackmail” - you don’t want to sell me YOUR car for 20 000 and i WANT only the YOUR mersedes.
Who does victim of Blackmail in this case - me that want YOUR mersedes or YOU coz you don’t want to sell uit for me for MY price?
Yes mate.
It seems this is the new Russian diplomacy. Unfortinatelly our Eastern European partners still has not understood the Soviet diplomacy has come to the end( when Commi were buying the “socialist brothershood” by the “cheap” russian resources for 10-30% of world market prices).
TO the happiness thime has shanged today.
But some of them ( who get used to be a bludger ) today have a troubles- but this is their problems not our.
Just economic , nothing personal:D
Well Chevan, the problem is not, that russians want world market prices for their ressources, which is perfectly fine. But the problem is that they wanted it, despite longer running contracts with fixed lower prices. The oil and gas companies signed those a couple of years back and as the prices skyrocketed suddenly wanted to bail out of those contracts which is completely inappropriate and probably damaged russia more than it was good for them. And here we are again that some companies and politicians only think of themselves. The big oil and gas companies might earn more money now, but the overall russian economy suffers, cause many western companies thought and think twice about investing in russia because they can’t be sure if the contracts they sign are worth the paper they are signed on.
On the flags. There is a significant difference in planting a we were here/are here flag on the moon or the south pole and the stunt the russians pulled on the north pole, because they want to make claims about possible ressources there. They can make claims as US/Canada and other neighboring countries also do it, but this will be an issue of diplomacy and not one of russian adhoc occupation backed by dubious scientific results. Putin might think he plays smart by boasting around on the international stage but he is wrong, he severely damages russian interests that way.
Well i/m agree it was a harsh decision of Putin.
The problems that the all the contracts were signed with the former Ukrainian gov that considered and respected the interests of Russia.
The “new Ukraine Orange gov” that has come to the power with anti-russian ideas
So this i naive to think the gazprom would continie to feed them by the “cheap gas”. Therefor this was a logical step of Gazprom.
It have to do it sooner or later- coz to sell the gas for Ukraine for 50$ when the Poland buy it for 220$ ( Germany -240-250$) is a very unprofitable bisness.
But i have to notice the Gazprom several times reminded and warned the Ukraine befor to cut off them the gas supplies - the price will rise. But they did nothing.
So i think it was inevitable action of GAzprom. Perhaps it sould not be so politiced as well.
The big oil and gas companies might earn more money now, but the overall russian economy suffers, cause many western companies thought and think twice about investing in russia because they can’t be sure if the contracts they sign are worth the paper they are signed on.
I think it’s not correct to say that the Gas scandal seriously damaged the reputation.
Firstly we did not see the essential western investitions befor the gas crisys.
Sec the economical statistic clearly shows - in the beginning of the 2007 the wester companies invest in Russia 50% more then in 2006.
So i do not think that the situation is so serious but mach better then you think:D
On the flags. There is a significant difference in planting a we were here/are here flag on the moon or the south pole and the stunt the russians pulled on the north pole, because they want to make claims about possible ressources there. They can make claims as US/Canada and other neighboring countries also do it, but this will be an issue of diplomacy and not one of russian adhoc occupation backed by dubious scientific results. Putin might think he plays smart by boasting around on the international stage but he is wrong, he severely damages russian interests that way.
Drake , the flag is ONLY the flag- nothing more.
The so called “Russian claims” is mostly inflated myth by the western mass media.
There is no any real connection betwen the flag and claims ( that as you know pretend also Canada, USA, Norvay, Denmark). The all claims consider the special International comission. ANd NOBODY even will think about flag;)
On my mind this action ( tyhe installing the flag) is nothing but senseless hoddy of scientists. This will not help the russia in its claim for those waters.
BTW this was funny to watch as after this russian action and critical compain in western mass media- the Canada “suddenly” send there the own expedition ship:D And USA “suddenly” wish to sign the Wolrd Sea Coast threaty ( the Internation Sea Right Agreement)
It seem Canadians want the own “PR action”
Exactly, but that is why it’s a problem. How other people see you is important for russia as it is for any other nation and even if it is hyperinflated by the media this could have been prevented if the guys just took their scientific probes and left without a flag. It’s exactly that kind of stupid behaviour without thinking about outward appearance that alienated germany (hun speech, agadir etc.) to other europeans in the early 20th century and we all know where that ended. Russia is an important nation even without Putins constant and for our (the west) perception rather annoying “reminders”, that seem to indicate a pretty big inferiority complex on his side.
I think there are parallels between early Germany and current Russia, coming from opposite sources.
Germany came to nationhood quite late in comparison with Britain, France, Russia, and even America. It was always the new boy, arriving too late to grab the really worthwhile colonies and lacking the national history of the other major powers. There was a sense of inferiority concealed by national pride.
Russia in its present form is a very recent nation, despite having a grand ancestry in Imperial Russia and the USSR. What it is now is a shadow of its former glories, and particularly of its fairly recent Soviet identity. So there is also a sense of inferiority, but compared with its own past rather than with other nations as was the case with early Germany.
The result is much the same. Making a big noise to show that you’re a force to be reckoned with, to convince yourself and others of it, and fearing being cut out of the game by the other big players.