It was the Germans rather than the British who used bent bullets.
They were called ‘Krumeier’ and specially developed for the Krumlauf of the StG-44.
Known colloquially as a load of ‘Manneier.’
Has ironman hacked your account? Or is this a Wah?[/quote]
Well as I have a very good hunch that X-pence is Bluff Cove as well as various other people, I’d call it a Wah!
Tracers in any weapon were very dirty and corrosive. Their trajectory was often less than true to the marking of the path of the other rounds also.
First off, the Bren was NOT the first curved mag .303 rimmed LMG adopted by the British Empire.
The Vicker’s Berthier being adopted by the Indian Army some time before and successfully used, along with many Brens, by Indian Army infantry throughout WW11. depended on ease of supply from the factory/s in India.
Just in case you doubt my word on any of this I was a small arms instructor, and marksmanship coach, having paased for ‘marksman and coach’ at our Infantry Centre.
the VB’s magazine was the first attempt to deal with the rim’s issues, and the VB was the runner up in the trials, the British and Indian armies had a deal of expereince with this matter by then.
Tracer and Automatic weapons - they are ‘not a good thing’ because of fouling of the barrel, and with gas operated weapons the whole piston and cylinder, and that is all. They were used because the soldiers believed they helped, even though they knew what cleaning them would be like.
the BAR was in comparisonn to the BREN - as an LMG - a complete PoS, the BAR was designed from the get-go, to be used in the attack fired from the hip.
Yet, the bren was also better at firing from the hip, less violent action and better balance, even without the sling.
I know.
okay
Tracer trajectory is slightly off compared to ball rounds when fired. This is because they are lighter than ball because they are slightly hollow for the “tracer”.
I don’t know about the extra fouling though. Not come across any of this sort of thing before.
The tracer is inside the bullets jacket, so fouling shouldn’t be any worse than a ball.
Not something I have noticed to be honest.
If IIRC the argies used 1:1:1 tracer in the Falklands 1 ball, 1 Tracer and 1 AP. I think the Brits used it too as it was captured and as far as I know there were no dramas with it.
Any sources for this extra fouling? Unless there was a difference in the propellant or something.
Most modern tracer is of a “delayed” ignition type, so there will be no fouling of the barrel.
Actually, the burning compound is in two parts – it is ignited in the barrel, but the first part of the compound burns dimly, and the second part burns brightly.
Exactly, how else could the compound ignite if not in the barrel. and if it does it will add its own muck. Esp. after a few mags, or a 250 rd belt.
As most (red) tracer uses red phosphorous, the fouling can be quite sticky.
Have I seen action? I’ve been fired at and fired back, okay? Mostly, I was at B’n HQ at base / Tac hq.
While I was a member of our citizen military forces (CMF ~ NatGuard?!) I did well enough in a couple of ARA (regular army) courses (Int ones), to be asked to do FTDuty in what was then known as the RAS(upplement), during the early 1970’s, when our TaskForce in Phuoc Tuy province was being run down.
I must admit it never occurred to me that one type of round was dirtier then the other. I fired it, it went bang, I cleaned it.
Firing several thousand rounds SF I could not tell the difference between muck from ball or tracer, it’s just muck and you gave it a very hot bath and scraped off the carbon.
Erm …The Brens that I used, and qualified with, used the exact same rounds the rifles used…No bent bullets…
Magazines were easy to load correctly…
They functioned with tracers perfectly well, and came with spare barrels and HEAVY gloves with which to change-out the barrels…It takes only seconds to change a Bren barrel…
I learned to keep my BDU or coverall wrist cuffs buttoned to avoid Bren-Elbow…
Cleaning involved 45 gallon drums filled with boiling water, funnels,pull-troughs, jags and 4X2’s (NO, not a 2
x4)
Ball or Tracer…It was ALL dirty and corrosive…
Here’s a little info on tracer…
Tracers are special bullets that are white phosphorus-tipped or contain a powder in their base that burns very brightly during their flight. This enables the shooter to follow the bullets’ trajectories. The shooter then, typically, “walks” his cone of fire onto the target by seeing where the tracer is going. Tracers have been used extensively in machine guns since World War I (1914-1918) and are usually loaded at a ratio of one tracer per four rounds in ground guns, and one tracer per every two or three rounds in aircraft guns.
A tracer projectile is constructed with a hollow base filled with a pyrotechnic flare material. In US and NATO standard ammunition this is usually a mixture of strontium salts and a metal fuel such as magnesium perchlorate. This yields a bright red light. Russian and Chinese tracer ammunition generates green light using barium salts.
Tracers can never be a totally reliable indicator of a gunner’s aim since all tracer rounds have different aerodynamics and even weight from ordinary rounds. Over long ranges the stream of tracer rounds and the stream of ordinary rounds will diverge radically, especially given that a tracer bullet’s mass decreases over time because the tracer material in its base burns and vaporizes. Although advances in tracer design have diminished this problem it still exists in modern ammunition.
Due to their pyrotechnic payload all tracers are incendiary in nature; although incendiary tracer bullets, some incorporating white phosphorus, are more effective.
Besides guiding the shooter’s direction of fire, tracer rounds can also be loaded at the end of a magazine to remind the shooter that the magazine needs changing, particularly when using a weapon (such as an AK-47) that does not lock the bolt back when empty. The Soviet Air Force during World War II also used this practice for aircraft machine guns. Of course this often alerted the enemy that the pilot in question was low on ammo and thus vulnerable.
There are three types of tracers: bright tracer, subdued tracer and dim tracer. The standard tracer starts burning immediately after exiting the muzzle. A disadvantage of bright tracers is that they give away the shooter’s location to the enemy—as an old military proverb puts it; tracers work both ways. Bright tracer can also overwhelm night vision devices, rendering them less useful. Subdued tracer burns at full brightness after a hundred or more yards to avoid giving away the gunner’s position. Dim tracer burns very dimly but is clearly visible through night-vision equipment.
from Wikepedia…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracer_ammunition
2 cents… 