And what’s about a cases of shoting the Germans POWs by allies sir?
look here please
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=89826#post89826
Certainly it was not simular scale like by Germans. But…Was sombody punished for this crime don’t you know?
Cheers.
Right Colonian wars were the simular cases of invasion.
But … Do you have the own version of starting the WW2 by allies? 
I’m happy to accept that all wars are crimes against humanity, but once a war starts it’s meaningless to categorise some actions as crimes against humantity because of the weapon used. Would you rather lose your elbow to an expanding and fragmenting dum-dum, which is banned, or an Armalite round, which is isn’t banned but because of its unstable round can inflict similar or worse injuries?
The Japanese, or at least retrograde elements of them who unfortunately tend to be in positions of power, have managed to convert themselves into undeserving victims with their bullshit that they were the innocent victims of A bombs.
http://www.hiro-tsuitokinenkan.go.jp/english/index.php
If Japan had kept out of China and not started the war none of these injuries and deaths would have happened. The bastards who were responsible were Tojo and the militarist expansionist gang he represented, along with Emperor Hirohito who sat at the top of the heap and only got away with it because MacArthur hung onto to him to avoid problems in occupying Japan.
Are there any Japanese government memorials to the hundreds of thousands of Asian slave labourers who died in Japan’s service, or the Allied POW’s who did the same, in appalling conditions of starvation and brutality on exercises such as the Burma railway? Are there any Japanese government memorials to the hundreds of thousands of civilians they killed in other nations? I don’t see any memorial to these two blokes who were heroes before the war for their disgusting beheading competition in China.
Mukai and Noda were also well known for their killing contest to cut down a hundred Chinese soldiers in combat with their swords on the way to Nanking. Their story was serially published in the Tokyo Nichi Nichi newspaper, where the two second lieutenants were treated as war heroes (to read some of the articles in English, see Reference below).
However, as many historians point out today, the stories of hyped heroism, in which those soldiers courageously killed a number of enemies in hand-to-hand combat with swords, couldn’t be taken at face value.172
Indeed, when Noda came back to his hometown in Japan and made a speech at an elementary school, he told his young audience that of more than a hundred Chinese soldiers he killed, most were actually prisoners of war.
http://www.geocities.com/nankingatrocities/Tribunals/nanjing_02.htm
If Japan had won the war there would be a memorial to these two glorious sons of Nippon and their flashing swords. Now they just don’t exist as far as Japan is concerned, along with all other examples of its appalling crimes, while Japan presents itself to the world as the poor victim of nuclear weapons.
Sure, the Allies were brutal and committed numerous war crimes at individual levels against the Japanese (normal Australian practice was to shoot all wounded Japanese before approaching them after Australian troops had been killed early in the war in many instances of Japanese wounded attacking with guns or blades as Australian troops bent over them, or detonating grenades). Again, it wouldn’t have happened if Japan hadn’t started it.
I’m actually strongly anti-war, but once someone starts one and embarks on what Japan did in China and later, then they reap what they sow. Japanese whingeing about being victims of nuclear weapons is disingenuous.
I have sympathy for all people killed, hurt, dispossessed, and displaced unnecessarily in all wars, which in Japan’s case was primarily all the Chinese civilians, civilians throughout Asia and the Pacific, and Allied service men and women who wouldn’t have been killed if Japan had stayed home, but it’s stretching things for Japan to make itself into a victim because it got nuked after four years of murder, massacre, rape, and pillage across SE Asia and the Pacific.
Chevan and Rising sun…
You both had disobey my recomendations about the “crimes” commited by Air Forces, so I edited your messages , If I have to edit again the infraction points will arrive…I hope that this is clear enough.
Yes boss you right.Sorry.
And show at us the list of crimes which you let us to discuss is here;)
Cheers.
\Well Risin Sun tell me please the maniac reason of your japanafobia?
I hered the all australians hate the Japane becouse the during WW2 they pretty suffered from the japanes. I read a story when the Japanes stoped the Australian transport ship with wounded soldiers with female medic personal, landed them to the coast and shoot everybody with masin-gun.
What’s bastard.
Cheers.
Yes boss
And show at us the list of crimes which you let us to discuss is here
No need of any list, just keep on land, naval and police forces during WW2 and you will be fine.
The massacre you’re referring to is the Banka (also Bangka) Island massacre when Japanese murdered survivors of the Vyner Brooke after it sank, including 21 Australian nurses of whom one survived to tell the story. http://www.awm.gov.au/people/1906.asp
I doubt that many Australians hate Japan or the Japanese. Certainly there was a lot of (justified) hatred towards Japan for a decade or two after the war, which I remember from my childhood, but that has almost completely disappeared, and had largely disappeared some thirty or more years ago. Some WWII veterans and people who lost loved ones to the Japanese probably still hate them, but some forgave the Japanese and many distinguished between the Japanese who were responsible for the war and war crimes and the rest of the Japanese. Most of the people now living in both countries weren’t alive in WWII and, unless there is some connection with WWII such as losing a parent, have no reason to have strong feelings about it.
I don’t have a problem with the Japanese people or the Japanese nation. I’ve dealt with quite a few Japanese and I find them pleasant people. The average Japanese isn’t the problem, except to the extent that they’ve been fed a dishonest view of Japan’s war history by a corrupted education system.
My problem, and the problem of nations in the region, notably China and South Korea, is with the elements in post-war Japan which, even now, cannot admit its war time misconduct and which seek to revise or distort history to whitewash Japan’s conduct. These elements are the modern version of the same nationalist and militarist elements which led Japan into the war and were the primary cause of its war crimes because of their contempt for everyone not Japanese (and for Japanese who opposed them) combined with the corrupted Bushido code.
A lot of Japanese post-war politicians and others in influential positions were former militarists who had engaged in war crimes or were part of the militarist war machine. One of the best examples is my favourite, Colonel Tsuji Masanobu who I’ve mentioned previously. Most of them have died now but their followers pursue the same line and often have direct links to Japan’s wartime conduct.
Here’s an example of these elements at work right now on the comfort women issue, which is causing significant concern in China and South Korea as evidence to them that Japan is still refusing to acknowledge its abuses of their peoples before and during WWII following Prime Minister Abe’s very recent repudiation of an earlier acknowledgement of Japanese responsibility http://www.china.org.cn/english/international/201261.htm However, as the failure of the Allies to prosecute this issue as a war crime shows, it is a much more complex issue than simply Japan’s conduct: see Yuri Tanaka’s book on comfort women http://wwwsshe.murdoch.edu.au/intersections/issue9/morris_review.html which also explores the reasons why the Allies themselves failed to pursue the issue as a war crime. There is also the issue of Korean complicity in selling Korean women into sexual slavery and very different attitudes to women than are common in the West nowadays http://www.icasinc.org/2000/2000s/2000scss.html. Nonetheless, there are clear cases of forced ‘comfort women’ http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2007/02/15/sex_slaves_to_testify_against_japan/
The disturbing nationalist elements in Japan go beyond political circles, such as the Society for Textbook Reform which doesn’t see that Japan did anything wrong in WWII and was in fact humane in its colonization of Asia and the Pacific http://hnn.us/roundup/comments/4928.html although it has had minimal success http://english.people.com.cn/200509/01/eng20050901_205807.html
These features of modern Japan obviously don’t mean that these nationalist elements represent the thinking of all Japanese on Japan’s war history, despite the current Japanese Prime Minister and a sizeable part of his party being in that camp.
For example, a major newspaper publisher with nationalist links has supported a clear apology by Japan for its wartime conduct http://asia.news.yahoo.com/060323/kyodo/d8gh68080.html while there are elements which successfully defend more balanced teaching of Japan’s war history http://www.ne.jp/asahi/kyokasho/net21/english_contents.htm which is largely due to the efforts of a courageous and determined Japanese historian, Ienaga Saburo, since 1965 http://www.indiana.edu/~japan/Digests/textbook.html
The position in Japan is complex and diverse, but the battle between the revisionist elements and their opponents is likely to remain a feature for some time.
Japanese society has diverse viewpoints respecting the interpretation of the Asia-Pacific War. While it seems undeniable that the cultural forces that currently oppose revisionism in Japan will remain strong, the revisionist impulse is powerfully entrenched in some circles, and neither historiographical faction has ever shown much inclination to compromise. Just like the latest textbook controversy on which Saaler so extensively comments, similar controversies over historical interpretation of the war will continue to be seen in museums, novels, films, and comic books in Japan. Any study that strives to identify any single position that summarizes Japanese thoughts and feelings about the war takes upon itself a Herculean, perhaps impossible task. Too strenuous an attempt to extract order from these fervid and often messy debates may be admirable in its intentions, but it is likely to be victimized by its own eagerness.
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_japanese_studies/v033/33.1yoshida.html
Nonetheless, despite an improvement in honesty in the 1990’s, the revisionist nationalist elements in Japan have continued to battle for a version of history which avoids guilt by Japan http://www.aasianst.org/Viewpoints/yoshida.htm Given the number of representatives in the Diet who support this position, as exemplified by the 105 in the last link pursing the revisionist line, and the current Prime Minister’s repudiation of the comfort women position, there is still a strong and disturbing element in Japan which simply refuses to acknowledge that what it did was wrong.
In part this is probably due to those elements still sharing pre-war and wartime nationalist and militarist ideas.
In part it is probably due to an inability to admit actions which would cause Japan to lose ‘face’. The problem here for Westerners is that, to the extent we can understand it, ‘losing face’ involves ‘being shamed’ where a similar acknowledgement of committing a bad act by a Westerner, as in Germany with its history, involves something more akin to ‘guilt’ which does not go to the core of the person but remains external to them as an admission that their action was wrong, as distinct from the whole person being diminished or rendered worthless in his eyes and the eyes of others.
Applying this concept of face and shame to Japan as a nation leads to the notion of the whole nation being shamed, which goes to the core of the nation. This is an impossible position for old-style nationalist Japanese to accept as their concept of Japan is one in which Japan is inherently superior to all other nations and blessed with an Emperor of divine descent (notwithstanding the Emperor’s post-war renunciation of divinity). It is inconceivable that such a nation could do anything shameful. So it can’t admit it did anything wrong, nor make any admission or apology or undertake any action which accepts it did anything wrong, or it is shamed. I think the people who won’t admit fault identify themselves with an older notion of Japan while those who can take a more balanced view identify themselves with a more modern outlook.
It’s the old guard which worries me, and to which I am opposed.
Wow Rising Sun 
Thanks a lot for the spreaded interesting and detailed post.
Yea i have remember now it massacre was in the Banka island.
My problem, and the problem of nations in the region, notably China and South Korea, is with the elements in post-war Japan which, even now, cannot admit its war time misconduct and which seek to revise or distort history to whitewash Japan’s conduct. These elements are the modern version of the same nationalist and militarist elements which led Japan into the war and were the primary cause of its war crimes because of their contempt for everyone not Japanese (and for Japanese who opposed them) combined with the corrupted Bushido code.
Well i understand and agree.
The Japanes racism during WW2 caused a lot of civil death among the other asian nation who were occuped by Japane.And certainly the post-war nationalists try to re-view the Japane participation and represent it as victim of Western agreesion and colonian policy.
The Japane’s “society of so-prosperity of Great East” was a pure imerialism on the racial basis.
The atrosities in China today are widely known.
I have read a artiicle about one of inner Japane point about own race-superior. This was disgusting.
So we dislike their nationalists. But we like our own nationalists and racists, don’t we?
Honestly speaking i dislike the Japanes too( just Shhhhh!!! Don’t talk nobody ;))
But i think no one japane civilians ( even if they loved its imreror-militarist) deserve to burn by alive int the gian fire-tornado.
LEt’s imagine youself as the Japane.( Just little brain experiment) What wiil you do if somebody from China or Australia will constantly blame your state for your history and will demand an apologies.
Moreover they will blame your nationalists as the who has no right to exists.( explaining the were guilt in the beginning of war)
But at the same time ( that’s funny) the China’s nationalists are justified the civil war in the 1946-47 where wer killed a lot of own people. And the Australian nationalists supports the practically all the USA imperialists agression since the 1945 where perished about 4 (!!!) million people already.
How you would react to this if you are Japane? Will you listen them who demand for themself the “exculsive right to judle” only becouse they won the WW2. Especially if the victors keep the silence about the own war crime.
Sure we could and we must to judle the Japane in 1945, but this could be continied for ever.
So your point coud be criticeized as the dual-moral point. Sorry, this is another side of the medal ( although i understand your position).
In the WW2 the Fascist killed about 10 millions of my countriments. And i know the most of German population supported and loved the Hitler in that time and they very liked the hational-superiority ideas. But this is don’t reason to hate all the germans or(read them a moral) or constanly demand the apologies or compensation ( or blamed their nationalist which is the part of EARCH normal society). They had a right to grow the full-value youg generation without the “seal of guilty for the past”.
Cheers.
The difference is that Germany, as a nation represented by its post-war governments, has acknowledged its past and tried to correct it and prevent it happening again, such as by making it illegal to deny the Holocaust and display Nazi symbols, although there are still neo-Nazi, and not so neo Nazi, elements in Germany which object to it. Unlike Japan, they’re not significant in government and related circles.
It is often forgotten, or unknown, that Japan has made several formal apologies since the war, but they have been evasive in some respects and, worse, have been undermined by the sorts of denials and distortions by significant elements in Japan outlined in my last post. This leaves Japan with the problem that other people aren’t sure if it (“it” is really meaningless as it assumes that all Japanese support these denials and distortions, which they don’t) is really sorry and, more importantly, is really committed to avoiding the same actions in the future.
But at the same time ( that’s funny) the China’s nationalists are justified the civil war in the 1946-47 where wer killed a lot of own people. And the Australian nationalists supports the practically all the USA imperialists agression since the 1945 where perished about 4 (!!!) million people already.
Australia supporting the ‘American imperialist aggression’ (not quite how we and the Americans viewed it 
), actually goes back to WWII when, as Japan advanced towards it, Australia realised that Britain couldn’t defend it in accordance with longstanding defence agreements. Australia switched to America in 1942. And do you reckon that Churchill and Co were pissed off by that!
Since then, having recognised that we may be unable to defend ourselves against a large attacker with fears heightened by the apparent communist threat of the domino theory down through Korea, Vietnam, Malaya and Indonesia, which all had significant post-war communist insurgencies and, in Korea and Vietnam, wars, there has been a policy of keeping America happy (or sucking up to it, which would be more apt) in the mistaken belief that if we pay our dues by supporting America it will repay us by defending us if we get into trouble. There wasn’t any sign of repayment for Korea and Vietnam and Gulf War 1 when we went into East Timor in 1999 and, as a nation of about 20 million, risked conflict with our nearest large neighbour Indonesia and its 200 million people. Having learnt nothing from that we’re now in Iraq busily annoying the Muslim nutcases while we have 200 million Muslims on our doorstep in Indonesia, with some serious nutcase radicals among them whipping up hatred against Australia and the West and making the occasional attack on us overseas. More brilliant work by the Australian government trying to make us secure in our region by sucking up to the Yanks and going to war in countries that don’t pose a threat to us and antagonising the ones that do. Priceless!
Meanwhile, down the bottom of the globe, New Zealand long ago renounced the American alliance and nobody has any interest in it, apart from the French who sunk a Greenpeace ship years ago in a New Zealand harbour.
EDIT ADDITION: Just on the imperialist aggression issue so far as concerns Vietnam, there is solid evidence that Australia actually goaded America into heavier initial involvement in Vietnam after America appeared to abandon Australia over the Indonesian / West Papuan issue in the UN in the early 1960’s, with the Australian aim of ensuring American involvement in South East Asia when the domino theory was at its height and Australia was the last domino in the chain.
I don’t think so. From the middle of 1945 there were no Nazis in Germany. Just ask any German who was there from the middle of 1945 if they were a Nazi. They’ll all say: No.
Also ask them if they were Nazis between 1933, or 1920, and 1945. Same answer.
The historical evidence from Germans who were there, and in the best position to know what was going on, is that there were hardly any Nazis in Germany at any stage.
I mean the WW2 period. In fact there a absolut majority of Germans believed the Hitler till the most end of war in Berlin in may 1945.
Sorry.
My post was a joke. Sarcasm. Irony.
I was trying to be funny about the fact that nobody admitted being a Nazi after the war but most Germans were until they lost, or looked like losing or lost someone or something close to them that turned them against the regime.
A joke that fell flat on its face.
No, it’s all Chevan’s fault.
Like the Japanese, he started it! :mrgreen:
Seriously, I’m sorry. As should be apparent from my other posts, my intention was to deal with Japan’s attitude to its history, of which being nuked or, as Japan likes to present it now, being the victim of a couple of atomic bomb attacks, was part. I thought I had kept away from the area of which we cannot speak. But apparently not. Sorry again.
The Germans ultra-right are not presented in the gov.But they are reppresents in the parliament ( and its voices increases constantly).
BTW are you sure that germans don’t vote for them becouse they don’t like the Neo-Nazi?
Why do you think that simple germans must believe that the “Holocaust was the war crime but firebombing was not?”
While they “good boys” but how long time it will continie?
May be they just don’t wish to bother anglo-saxons and the jews ( who in fact today are ruling of the West).
But have you any facts they will be “good guys” in future. Will they support of the theory of Holocaust which let the jewish organisations make a big money ( getting the compensation from the Germany)?
Why do you think that only “our version of true” could be legitime in the world?
On my mind the difference between the Germany and Japane was that the first was fully destructed and burned but Japane capitulated a little early befor the full collapse of state. Therefore they could be more nationalists in inner side but… THEY DEMOSTRATED A FULL LOALITY to the USA and the West and even took the participation in last US war adventure. Its obvious inspite of the some nationalists elements in gov they still friendly for us.
I think that’s really strange people who carefully wath for the Germans and Japane militarists , absolutly ignore the own militarists who at that time begin the new war conflicts on planet.
It is often forgotten, or unknown, that Japan has made several formal apologies since the war, but they have been evasive in some respects and, worse, have been undermined by the sorts of denials and distortions by significant elements in Japan outlined in my last post. This leaves Japan with the problem that other people aren’t sure if it (“it” is really meaningless as it assumes that all Japanese support these denials and distortions, which they don’t) is really sorry and, more importantly, is really committed to avoiding the same actions in the future.
Yes they developed the own history of WW2.
But do you know that in the modern school’s book in Baltic for instance the Lettish Waffen -SS division( which was guilty in mass atrosities above the civilians , including burning peoples by alive) was called as “fighter for Latvinian freedom” and today the every year the SS veterans get the parades where are presents the official faces of Lettish gov.?
Strange why nobody in West notice this kind of REVISIONISM? Don you know?
The veterans of Baltic waffen SS who was guilt in Holocaust today in the newest member of EU are proudly marshed on the streets together with young people - Is it not funny?
I think no. What’s happen? Was the Holocaust in Baltic real indeed?
But when sombody in Germany or Austria even try to speek about this- he immediatelly will send to the prison. That’s nice IMO.
Cheers.
No problems Rising Sun.My post is sarcasm too
Cheers.
There are complicated issues about Jewish influence in the West leading to support for Israel, but it goes way beyond the common notion that influential Jews in America and elsewhere are setting the agenda. In America, which is where it matters, it is in fact the conservative, Republican-voting Christians who believe that Israel must be returned to the Jews to enable the second coming of Christ who have been cultivated by, and supported by, the Republicans as exemplified by Bush II who have much more influence in determining American policy. This is a case of Nutcase meets Bizzaro. For example, http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,820528,00.html
Yes they developed the own history of WW2.
But do you know that in the modern school’s book in Baltic for instance the Lettish Waffen -SS division( which was guilty in mass atrosities above the civilians , including burning peoples by alive) was called as “fighter for Latvinian freedom” and today the every year the SS veterans get the parades where are presents the official faces of Lettish gov.?
Strange why nobody in West notice this kind of REVISIONISM? Don you know?
The veterans of Baltic waffen SS who was guilt in Holocaust today in the newest member of EU are proudly marshed on the streets together with young people - Is it not funny?
I think no. What’s happen? Was the Holocaust in Baltic real indeed?
I think it was real in the Baltic. In Lithuania, at least.
http://www.btinternet.com/~ablumsohn/links.htm
These events reflected long-standing and unreasonable hostility towards Jews across Europe and Russia, which continues today.
I don’t care what anyone’s background is, racial, ethnic or whatever, they should be judged and accepted or rejected by what they are and what they do, not by some meaningless, stereotypical label applied to them.
But when sombody in Germany or Austria even try to speek about this- he immediatelly will send to the prison. That’s nice IMO.
And in a lot more EU countries.
I think it’s a bad thing to make offering a view of history, no matter how silly or wrong, a crime. This is about free speech.
I think it’s a worse thing to deny clear crimes, as elements in Japan try to do (and did with a lot of success until the 1990’s) and as the Holocaust deniers try to do. But only when the nations responsible for it do it. Which is what Japan is still inclined to do, and Germany isn’t.
Individuals are still entitled to express their opinions, no matter how stupid or ill-informed they may be. If we required intelligent and well-informed opinions all the time, politicians wouldn’t be able to say anything. … Actually, maybe it’s a good idea. … After all, politicians start wars.
Russian sarcasm is different to Australian sarcasm.
Or vice versa.
Maybe if you drank 5% alcohol beer like us instead of 500% alcohol vodka we’d understand you.
The Japanese who actually committed atrocities might be expected to apologize but I don’t think this would hold true for most Japanese who were not even alive during World War II.
Have the British ever apologized for colonizing Africa and Asia?
Maybe you’ll better add a little 500% alcohol vodka right at your beer
Thus we could much better ubderstansd each other:)