A little side-note, the fact that the father of the exhibition’s chairman Reemtsma owned the company that was the Wehrmacht’s main supplier with cigarettes and tobacco products in general, did not actually increase his credibility over here…
While i do agree that exhibition can be a bit biased, BUT how about the Wehrmach veterans recollection in this film?
I thought that the memours and personal recollection are the best historical matter.
Hardly we might deny their testimonies of war crimes, just becouse we don’t like the producers of film.
Hmmmn, intersting
are you sure it weren’t dressed up Red Army soldiers?
Wrong, and your energetic argumentation, seems only to serve one purpose, to discredit me as well as the Wermachts ausstellung, as a hole.
But as a matter of fact, even without the Wermachts ausstellung, the Wermacht was a major contributor to Holocaust, also it was the only army in the world with an open agenda to execute other Army officers. The so called
Guideline for the Treatment of Political Commissars. I have attached the guideline in English as it was handled over to the
leading wermacht officers.
S[i]taff Command Secret Document
Chief Only
Only Through Officer
High Command of the Wehrmacht
WFST [Armed Forces Operational Staff] Div. L (VI/Qu)
No. 44822/41 g.K Chiefs
Guidelines for the Treatment of Political Commissars
In the fight against Bolshevism it is not to be expected that the enemy will act in accordance with the principles of humanity or international law. In particular, the political commissars of all kinds, who are the real bearers of resistance, can be expected to mete out treatment to our prisoners that is full of hate, cruel and inhuman.
The army must be aware of the following:
-
In this battle it would be mistaken to show mercy or respect for international law towards such elements. They constitute a danger to our own security and to the rapid pacification of the occupied territories.
-
The barbaric, Asiatic fighting methods are originated by the political commissars. Action must therefore be taken against them immediately, without further consideration, and with all severity. Therefore, when they are picked up in battle or resistance, they are, as a matter of principle, to be finished immediately with a weapon.
In addition, the following regulations are to be observed:
Operational Areas
- Political commissars operating against our armies are to be dealt with in accordance with the decree on judicial provisions in the area of “Barbarossa.” This applies to commissars of every type and rank, even if they are only suspected of resistance, sabotage or incitement to sabotage…
[/i]
I can’t remember anyone here denying this.
…and that the Holocaust could not had happened without
the logistic and the military success of the wermacht.
This wouldn’t count for the German Jews.
I bit off topic, but i will tell it anyway. After the red army occupied the Danish Island Bornholm in 45, there was a few rapes of Danish woman, mainly done by hardened Kirgisian front pigs, who could not tell the difference between Danes and Germans i guess. The Soviets commander did though send some of them back to Stalin, and replaced them with young recruits, who later hat a fine relationship to the locals.
Well, that’s what you call it.
, and your energetic argumentation, seems only to serve one purpose, to discredit me as well as the Wermachts ausstellung, as a hole.
Uhm, you certainly discredited yourself by calling RS* a “war crime denier” and “revisionist” within your very first posts.
But as a matter of fact, even without the Wermachts ausstellung, the Wermacht was a major contributor to Holocaust, also it was the only army in the world with an open agenda to execute other Army officers. The so called
Guideline for the Treatment of Political Commissars. I have attached the guideline in English as it was handled over to the
leading wermacht officers.S[i]taff Command Secret Document
Chief Only
Only Through Officer
High Command of the Wehrmacht
WFST [Armed Forces Operational Staff] Div. L (VI/Qu)
No. 44822/41 g.K Chiefs
Guidelines for the Treatment of Political Commissars
In the fight against Bolshevism it is not to be expected that the enemy will act in accordance with the principles of humanity or international law. In particular, the political commissars of all kinds, who are the real bearers of resistance, can be expected to mete out treatment to our prisoners that is full of hate, cruel and inhuman.
The army must be aware of the following:
In this battle it would be mistaken to show mercy or respect for international law towards such elements. They constitute a danger to our own security and to the rapid pacification of the occupied territories.
The barbaric, Asiatic fighting methods are originated by the political commissars. Action must therefore be taken against them immediately, without further consideration, and with all severity. Therefore, when they are picked up in battle or resistance, they are, as a matter of principle, to be finished immediately with a weapon.
In addition, the following regulations are to be observed:
Operational Areas
- Political commissars operating against our armies are to be dealt with in accordance with the decree on judicial provisions in the area of “Barbarossa.” This applies to commissars of every type and rank, even if they are only suspected of resistance, sabotage or incitement to sabotage…
[/i]
You want to check your sources. Soviet Poltical Commissars were not “officers” but were subordinated to a central office in Moscow and they were beyond the military command structure.
Furthermore you forgot to mention that this abominable order -which was actually passed by Hitler onto the Wehrmacht’s supreme command- was repealed in May 1942 - due to the constant, repeated pressure of the Heer command and the higher Wehrmacht officers’ corps.
Um, there were no mass, widespread rapes. And they certainly were not officially condoned nor ignored. Rapes happened, but they were exceptions not the rule…
If you’re looking for cases where US troops went on rampages and did mass-rape the local populace, then I suggest you pick up a copy of “An Army at Dawn” by Rick Atkinson where he discusses isolated, but appalling instances committed by soldiers in North Africa…
But I suspect this is all ticky flame-bait, isn’t it? I mean, could you find a more inappropriate place to insert a smiley?
:lol:
Evidence?
Where?
When?
Whom?
Evidence you say? That would take all the fun of watching someone not knowing the first fucking thing they’re talking about on a message board and saying it with such righteous indignation…
Yes, that is a convincing point coming from someone who continually introduces irrelevant material to ‘prove’ his points, such as alleged Allied rapes of Japanese women in 1945 somehow ‘proving’ something about Nazi conduct somewhere at some time on the planet, for whatever point you are trying to make beyond all Germans being bastards.
Beats actually reading anything about WWII, eh mate? 
Yes, so called “Kommissars order” was unique in its nature for all WW2 armies( well except probably Japane imperial army , who might to execute/behead everything that moved or simply looks suspective, having not care about any ORDER at all:D)
For sake of true i shall say that Red Army sometimes soldiers also executed POWs in GErmany VOLUNTARY.
But ONLY if they can prove to NKVD ( in a case when NKVD learn about it) that those soldiers can’t provide the valuable information for Armis intelligence.
I know that Wermach also has got a special Nasional-Socialistic officers since 1944.It seems it’s happend when Himler take a controll over Group Armies Vistula( Jenuary 1945) or sooner. All of NS officers were from SS and subordinated directly SS command in BErlin.
I don’t know what was happend with them, beeing captured by Red Army.
Many of them has been executed ( the ss were specially “loved” by our soldiers, for mass atrocities in east or due to propogand of Ilia Erenburg)
But not all of them, coz now we STILL migh observe the some WaffenSS/SS veterans in parades in baltic states.Alive and feel good.
Hm , they had a fine relations with locals?
You probably the first to say me such a infor:)
I know the Soviet command persecuted the rapings in Red army , but ONLY since aprile of 1945.
There was a special order od Stavka about discipline and conduct toward local civils…
Also since 1945 the Stalin’s famouse phrase “Hitlers come ane gone, but GErmany leave”. That was meaning the reducing the anti-german hysteria in Soviet propogand( even the main German-hate propogandists Ilia Erenburg has been seriously criticized and dismissed ).
Nah, my troll meter says you’re a troll.
As evidenced by you slipping in the revisionist insult as flame bait, then disingenuously asking to stay on topic instead of getting personal.
I can’t be bothered responding, because you don’t know what you’re talking about while transparent and unoriginal trolls like you bore me rigid.
Well, FTG’s energetic attempts to discredit you as an a hole aren’t working, because you are establishing yourself as an A grade a hole.
The view on Communism in many western countries after the liberation, was much more positive than today, after all red army had liberated them from the third Reich. In many countries the communist parties grew, and in Denmark it was the third biggest political party after the war.
That said, apart from the Commies, did the Danes do anything they could to get the Soviets to leave Bornholm, and they left the Island the 5 april 1946.
On the nationall Danish television there was a doku some time ago, in connection with the celebration of the 5 april 1946, with the Russian ambassador, Soviet vets, Danish queen etc.
http://www.dr.dk/Regioner/Bornholm/Tema/2006/Russerne/20060404141521.htm
It would, wouldn’t it?
But I expect he’s used to it. 
Not that we’re going to get used to him if he maintains his trolling.
Sorry my English is not god enough to understand your play with words, maybe we could continue the discur in German, a nation you apparently has such a profound knowledge on?
Bullshit!
You presume that I am actually interested in responding to your flame baits.
Alas, I’m not.
Unfortunately for you, we’re used to a much better class of troll here. You’re just infantile and boring.
I didn’t say mass rapes, I said there are an estimation that 10.000 Japanese woman was raped in 45. The problem with rapes, is there a few actual sources to underline the numbers, but As far as my wife has told me, the US trops in Phillipines also raped quite a few girls, many of minor age.
I am full aware that of the fact that rapes committed by the Allied, was not an organized part of the conquest, like the Japanese brothels etc.
Ok Genosse, A dead Officer or Commissar shall not tear us apart. lets just agree that we disagree.
No, at #14 you said
Now that you have a precise estimate of a nice round figure of 10,000, could you provide a source for that figure, other than Wiki (see below)?
When and where did this happen? What is the basis for her claim?
You don’t have any idea where most of the women in many IJA field and occupation brothels came from, do you?
Yes, a very reliable source, and always highly regarded by professional and serious amateur military historians. :rolleyes:
Note the request [who] on the Wiki page for the source relied upon for the 10,000 figure you are presenting as reliable.
While the number of rapes committed by US troops is not known, historian Peter Schrijvers states that an Okinawan historian[who?] has estimated that the number may have exceeded 10,000