Well I never!

Anyone with a military connection should.

Besides, as I mentioned; ‘friendly’ fire bloody well isn’t ![/quote]
Yes i have heard of blue on blue before and more people would understand friendly fire then “blue on blue”, but still they both sound good. 8)[/quote]

‘Good’ does not describe the situation at all. Nor is a ‘cool’ smiley appropriate.

It is a tragic situation where allies cause the death of one another.
These men have families. Parents, wives, girlfriends, siblings and children.
They leave behind grieving mothers, fathers, sisters, widows and orphans.

Think on it.

Edited twice for grammar and layout.

I think then CJ dont think nothing bad.

Please note I never had the intention of Yank bashing or friendly fire when starting this thread. I merely thought that taking so many casualties capturing an uninhabited Island was pretty amazing.

I’m not trying to bash them either.

I have the upmost respect for their efforts to combat fraticide, no matter who does it.

Compare with the British effort.

massive dayglo orange panals, Union Flags, and those crap reflective matierial things you had to sew on ONE!!! shoulder.

what was there to stop an Iraqi tank putting his big orange marker panel out on the back of his tank?

It seems strange to me that the IFF should be so basic, Id have thought that a transicever or transponder would have been more difficult to counterfeit.

Wouldn’t make much difference, the A-10s would banjo the panzer regardless of the nationality !
:wink:

i dont think lack of training is necessarilly the cause for the americans…they train as hard as any country, maybe not as hard as any given countries elite units, but marines train every day for months.

But is it good training? Does it stretch their minds as well as body?

Most of what I’ve seen is the old Sir yes sir variety.

The yanks are often amazed at teh responsibilities the British push down to teh NCOs. Esp the Sgt Majs.

To paraphrase 1000ydstare, is it the correct and the best trg ?

Incorrect trg is the mere repetition of mistakes.

actually, well it could be training, but think about it: no army in the world has the crazy firepower that the US can afford. I mean we call down airstrikes to clear out a sniper. our extravagent use of firepower and our 300 billion war budget are destined to cause more friendly fire accidents.

Or, as the British Army saying goes, “All the gear, no idea”

Just a note, that saying applies to any one with “all the gear” it is not specified against the yanks, but it does come up with regularity when talking about them!!!

I totally agree here. I was visited by the local US Commander in Kosovo, he came into my office and said where is your unit commander.

I said, Sir (he was a major) your looking at him.

You are enlisted he says.

Nice observation Sir says I (always pays to be polite to Officers).

After 5 minutes of incredulity we got along just fine. We both looked after the same amount of guys but he was trully amazed that I was not an officer.

Then I sold him a T-shirt

Go figure…

maybe communication error cause the ship to think the allies soldiers in the island is actually japanese, and boom

Blunders abound in war. In Operation Tractable (WWII), RAF bombers dropped 3,723 tonnes of explosives but made a confounding mistake. Thinking that yellow signals identified targets rather than friendly positions (?!), several crews dropped their bombs on Canadian and Polish rear guard troops. Some 165 men were killed by friendly fire.

Well, I never!

Hello IRONMAN, never met but I have heard a lot about you.

How are you today?

Fratricide is a tragic side efect of combat, especially when using BVR (Beyond Visual Range) weapons such as artillery and air support.

Durning WW1, the French used to say that if you were not taking casualties from your own artillery during the advance, you were too far behind the barrage.

However, to take an earlier point, some of the recent cases (GW 1 onwards) have been due to insufficient training on recognition, particularly by the USAF. Apparently it was the norm in the Cold War to train to recognise US equipement and assume anything else was hostile. It was particularly difficult in GW 1 as both sides were using the same vehicles in some instances.

These incidents may be more noticable as the US has been supplying the bulk of CAS in recent conflicts, and their drive towards IFF for vehicles and the NC battlefield is to be applauded.

In GW 1, the British Army lost more troops to fratricide than we did to enemy action. We also lost more to vehicle accidents than the enemy.

I was told many years ago that the British Army lost more troops every year to firearms accidents than to terrorists. Makes you think . . .

As to the losses in the Kiska Op, I was on a large Ex a few years ago (65,000 participants IIRC) where we lost 18 people to air crashes etc and we weren’t even using live ammunition. I can quite imagine how a number were lost attacking an island in wartime, even without an active enemy. It only takes a small error (small in the sense of a few degrees of traverse or elevation, not in the consequences) to drop artillery on your own troops which is why such errors are treated so seriously.

I

Blunders abound in war. In Operation Tractable (WWII), RAF bombers dropped 3,723 tonnes of explosives but made a confounding mistake. Thinking that yellow signals identified targets rather than friendly positions (?!), several crews dropped their bombs on Canadian and Polish rear guard troops. Some 165 men were killed by friendly fire.

Well, I never![/quote]

As usual, this was an observation on something I was reading and you have to twist it to suit your evil plan.

Thingymanob
Discomwankulator
etc etc etc

Firefly…maybe it was the way you posted your original observation. I myself fount it to be a little condescending. I also found Ironmans post to be on topic and polite. :?

wow! its the legendary ironman!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: