Firefly…maybe it was the way you posted your original observation. I myself fount it to be a little condescending. I also found Ironmans post to be on topic and polite. :?[/quote]
Sorry if it came across that way, I have said 2 times now it wasnt meant that way. Thats not the way Ii am.
Did you join after the man of Balsa left?
If so I think you should read his posts, all of them and then decide for yourself what is reasonable.
I understand and have no problem with it…just trying to explain. 
I have not read all of Ironmans 1131 post’s and I have not read all of your 871 posts. 
I like to judge men for what the do not what they did. I have read some slanderous stuff from other posters on this site and come to believe Ironman does not corner the market with unreasonable posts.
I understand and have no problem with it…just trying to explain. I have not read all of Ironmans 1131 post’s and I have not read all of your 871 posts.
I like to judge men for what the do not what they did. I have read some slanderous stuff from other posters on this site and come to believe Ironman does not corner the market with unreasonable posts.[/quote]
Thats a commendable attitude mate, and I have no problem with that at all.
I understand and have no problem with it…just trying to explain. I have not read all of Ironmans 1131 post’s and I have not read all of your 871 posts.
I like to judge men for what the do not what they did. I have read some slanderous stuff from other posters on this site and come to believe Ironman does not corner the market with unreasonable posts.[/quote]
Well, his one post since you’ve been here seems to be rather chilled out compared to his previous ones. The thread “Walther the war machine’s big book of soldier knowledge” sums up a fairly general attitude to his previous incarnation.
Well, if you will bear with me gentlemen, I’ll explain my post.
This thread, like a number of others on this forum, was created for the purpose of saying something demeaning about the US and it’s military. Notice the nonsensical name of it:
“Well, I never!”
It’s not for the purpose of sharing interesting historical information. Nope.
It’s not for the purpose of causing insightful thought. Nope.
It’s purpose was to have a place in which to say something negative about the US (my country) and it’s military. This has been a prevailing attitude on the site propagated by a number of non-American members. It comes in different flavors as well, often such comments have been slipped into threads of a completely different subject - for the sole purpose of anti-American banter. It’s offensive and unnecessary.
Much of the time it comes in the form of criticizing US troops for fracticide. Unfortunately, fracticide is a fact of life for warfare, and all of the world’s larger military forces have commited it many times, in the past, and in Iraq as well. Many have stated in these threads that US troops are poorly trained trigger-happy cowboys who shoot at whatever moves without thought. Perposterous. As an American, I have lived 44 years (my birthday is tomorrow - 44 years of age, danka!) in this country, and have first-hand knowlege, like most Americans, that US troops are extensively trained and professional - nothing like what some of the boneheads who post on this site would have others believe.
However, it is unnecessary to carry on about fracticide and such, especially because it is hypocritical to do so since the nation of the poster has commited it numerous times as well. Such attitudes have no place in these threads, and creating a thread for the purpose of blathering such criticisms of someone else’s nation is unacceptable behavior.
It used to make me very angry, but now I have become simply sympathetic to the events which created the emptiness in the life of the one who must fill the hole in their life by blathering anti-American garbage. I have come to realize that they cannot help themselves. They are driven by a force which compells them to act in socially unacceptable ways.
Nonetheless, it is unnecessary and offensive. Consider the posts of 1000ydstare in this thread. Every one of them is of a disdainful attitude and directed as an insult to US troops:
Where is the intellectual contribution in such? What insightful information has been shared? It’s worthless blather, and it’s offensive.
I have a suggestion for those who have a hole in their lives that they need to fill with distasteful behavior as a lashing out at others or their country:
Keep it at home, and do not bring it here. It is not respectful to others, it serves no purpose, and it is not going to make you seem smart.
Wow, good post iron man and good to have you back.
Wasnt kiska invaded by the canadians as well?
As ive stated 3 times now, it wasnt aimed at the US in particular, I just thought it interesting, and others have said that friendly fire is inevitible.
As to your reply.
Well I never
:roll:
Editted to add (something the Metal one just doesnt do).
If you check my topic on Dieppe, youll find that Im critical of the British as well, for a stupid operation that accomplished nothing.
A common English expression of surprise, certainly not non-sensical.
Much of the time it comes in the form of criticizing US troops for fracticide. Unfortunately, fracticide is a fact of life for warfare, and all of the world’s larger military forces have commited it many times, in the past, and in Iraq as well.
Certainly true, but US forces do have a reputation for doing it more than others - ask the British, Canadians, Italians… etc
Many have stated in these threads that US troops are poorly trained trigger-happy cowboys who shoot at whatever moves without thought. Perposterous. As an American, I have lived 44 years (my birthday is tomorrow - 44 years of age, danka!) in this country, and have first-hand knowlege, like most Americans, that US troops are extensively trained and professional - nothing like what some of the boneheads who post on this site would have others believe.
Have you ever actually worked with/close to the US military? Have you ever had to carry a large A4 Union Flag in your vehicle with you because unless you show it the jumpy American convoys open up on any vehicle approaching them, even if the occupants are in British uniform, armed with British weapons and clearly not Arabic.
However, it is unnecessary to carry on about fracticide and such, especially because it is hypocritical to do so since the nation of the poster has commited it numerous times as well. Such attitudes have no place in these threads, and creating a thread for the purpose of blathering such criticisms of someone else’s nation is unacceptable behavior.
Fratricide is a part of war - this is a board for discussing war, is it not?
It used to make me very angry, but now I have become simply sympathetic to the events which created the emptiness in the life of the one who must fill the hole in their life by blathering anti-American garbage. I have come to realize that they cannot help themselves. They are driven by a force which compells them to act in socially unacceptable ways.
How is it socially unacceptable to discuss historical fact?
Nonetheless, it is unnecessary and offensive. Consider the posts of 1000ydstare in this thread. Every one of them is of a disdainful attitude and directed as an insult to US troops:
Where is the intellectual contribution in such? What insightful information has been shared? It’s worthless blather, and it’s offensive.[/quote]
None of them are anything other than either a question, or a statement of fact. He did see Americans dancing on the firing point. He did read about an American soldier shooting himself. He has seen how shocked the Americans are about the responsibilities the British Army puts on its NCOs (I’ve also seen there surprise that a Corporal could possible be trusted to do Syscon night shift in Basra). One of the posts you quoted actually praises the Americans for doing so much to avoid blue on blue attacks.
I have a suggestion for those who have a hole in their lives that they need to fill with distasteful behavior as a lashing out at others or their country:
Keep it at home, and do not bring it here. It is not respectful to others, it serves no purpose, and it is not going to make you seem smart.
I have a suggestion for you, get over yourself, read posts properly and think about what the poster is saying before getting on your high horse about them, and then (if you must reply) reply in an intelligent and well thought out way, with points that can be proved.
Now BDL has submitted a reasoned and thought out response.
As I have said 5 times now, it was an observation and not a criticism, I have provided the same about British forces.
I have many US friends, and I have had similar conversations with them. They however have been reasonable about the subject, certain members here have not.
Has the UK bombed its own guys?
Yes, many times.
Has the Uk shot down its own aircraft?
Yes as recently as 20 years ago.
There i can equally criticise my own…
In the time that Ironman has been gone i have seen no threads started with the “purpose” of demeaning the US.
I do question why your first post upon return has drawn such attention though. Can we please agree to ignore the troll if he proceeds to return to type. Otherwise welcome back IRONMAN and I look forward to hearing some of your more substaniable claims and opinions.
This is true because there are many time more US toops fighting in the world than from any other nation, and that has been true since the end of WWII. The US military is the best trained and most professional military in the world. But the toops from your country do bonehead things and such as well, as has been shown in other threads. So what is the purpose of such?
Why can you not express your opinion on it and then let it be?
Once you have expressed your one-sided opinion of it in one thread must you and a few others insist on posting about it in as many threads as you can get away with? Why does it have to be a hobby for you that has become the greater percentage of your posts about another nation’s military?
The answer is simple. Is it because you are compelled to express your anti-American attitude, and you do so in as many threads as possible.
Obviously, as seen from your responses when I have posted information which shows the troops of Britain or other nations doing the same idiotic things on numerous occasions, you become almost violently defensive! You don’t like it do you? No, you don’t. You become inscenced. Why is that? Why do you post so very much about American mistakes yet become excessively defensive and angrily responsive when someone else does the same about your nation’s military dumbasses? You have no right to be so if you are interested in posting so much about such things about other nations military forces. Yet you do, always, and as much as you can in as many threads as you can, evensofar as to create numerous threads for that very purpose. It’s truly shamefull, and does not reflect well on your own nation for you to represent it in such a manner.
It’s very simple to let it go, but you seem incapable of it. You simply will not stop posting as much as you can about American military mistakes. You should challenge yourself to stand up and be a better man than to act in such a fashion. I challenge you myself. We know that you have disdain for America, for whatever reasons. Now be a bigger person and end your abundance of such posts. It will serve you and this foruim better to not fill it purposely with such disdainful mouthings.
BTW, the above post is spoken to others as well, not just you BDL.
Let us use this thread for comradery and informative repetoir, not for expressing disdain for another nation or it’s military in hypocritical fashion.
Let’s all be bigger than that, shall we?
EDITED TO CORRECT BDL’s NAME SPELLING.
Nice post Ironman…I was thinking the same thing. check your PM
Edited for spelling
It’s nothing to do with how many soldiers are deployed anywhere - the British Army has been constanly on ops since something like 1798. Literally, we have been to war somewhere in the world every year since something like 1798 (apart from 1968). I’d hazard a guess that since WW2, we’ve deployed a very large number of soldiers into war zones, possibly more than the US has, although I’m not certain. Despite that, the British Army hasn’t got a reputation for ‘Friendly Fire’. On the other hand, I did read that the Canadians are now refusing to deploy anywhere the US are, because they’ve been bombed by them so often. I’m not having a go at the US Army/Navy/Air Force, I got on well with most of the US Forces I met in Iraq, but you cannot avoid the fact that the US has this reputation and has it for a reason.
The US military is the best trained and most professional military in the world.
They don’t, but they do get to work with them sometimes.
But the troops from your country do bonehead things and such as well, as has been shown in other threads. So what is the purpose of such?
I’ve never denied that the Britsh Army does stupid things - Christ I’ve painted grass green, kerbstones in Corps colours and swept leaves (from the same tree, next to a helipad, in autumn) every day for a week because we had a General visiting us. But that’s got nothing to do with blue on blue incidents.
The British Army/RN/RAF have had a few blue on blues in their time, and accidents do happen, but these accidents seem to happen a lot more when the American forces are around.
Why can you not express your opinion on it and then let it be?
Once you have expressed your one-sided opinion of it in one thread must you and a few others insist on posting about it in as many threads as you can get away with? Why does it have to be a hobby for you that has become the greater percentage of your posts about another nation’s military?
I had expressed my opinion once in this thread - see my quote about ‘all the gear, no idea’, a common perception in the British Army of some US servicemen. Since then I have only replied twice, both of them replying to you.
The answer is simple. Is it because you are compelled to express your anti-American attitude, and you do so in as many threads as possible.
I don’t have an anti-American attitude, I LIKED the Americans I worked with, some of my family is American (my nan’s cousin emigrated there and is now married to an ex-US Marine who fought in 'Nam). Talking about documented fact is not anti-anything. Should we talk about you anti-British attitude, with respect to your thoughts on the Gurkhas for example? It’s clear that you have an axe to grind about them (please don’t start that discussion again by the way, we’ve heard enough about them from Erwin and the other Argentinians while you’ve been gone), is that because you’re anti-British?
Obviously, as seen from your responses when I have posted information which shows the troops of Britain or other nations doing the same idiotic things on numerous occasions, you become almost violently defensive! You don’t like it do you? No, you don’t. You become inscenced. Why is that?
I don’t, I’m fully aware that the British can occaisonally make mistakes. We did it in Gulf War 2, at least twice, we did it in the Falklands at least once (a Gazelle helicopter was apparently shot down by British troops on the Islands) and we’ll undoubtedly do it again. But we don’t do it all that often.
Why do you post so very much about American mistakes yet become excessively defensive and angrily responsive when someone else does the same about your nation’s military dumbasses? You have no right to be so if you are interested in posting so much about such things about other nations military forces. Yet you do, always, and as much as you can in as many threads as you can, evensofar as to create numerous threads for that very purpose. It’s truly shamefull, and does not reflect well on your own nation for you to represent it in such a manner.
(a) get over yourself
(b) find me one thread that I’ve started to slag the American armed forces off?
It’s very simple to let it go, but you seem incapable of it. You simply will not stop posting as much as you can about American military mistakes. You should challenge yourself to stand up and be a better man than to act in such a fashion. I challenge you myself. We know that you have disdain for America, for whatever reasons. Now be a bigger person and end your abundance of such posts. It will serve you and this foruim better to not fill it purposely with such disdainful mouthings.
I have no disdain for America, I treat them as I would treat a slightly simple cousin - with amusment and yet still with affection. I challenge you to find where exactly I’ve filled the forum purposely with disainful mouthings (go to the members list, find me and then click on ‘Find all posts by BDL’ and that will give you everything I have ever written on here. Tell me how many of them are anti-American and I will prove to you that everything I have written is either my opinion of something (which I am happy to change if I see proof that I am wrong), or documented fact.
IRONMAN.
I am a currently serving British Soldier, but I have had the privledge to do lots of training with the Americans. Therefore I think that BDL is correct. ALL of my posts were truthfull, and as I said represented a true account of what I saw.
Feel free to read them again and specify any questions that you wish.
On the subject of the guy who shot himself, the magazine is “counterforce”. Your military think it is so serious that they have their own department and magazine dealing with this sort of thing.
I have it sent to me. As I am a Mil Skills instructor I find it interesting and useful.
There is also a website, for it, I will dig it out, and hopefully post a link to the info on the soldier blowing his own head off for you.
If you are such a genius, why don’t you explain how he managed to blow his head off conducting cleaning on his weapon?
They don’t train nearly as hard or as often as other Armies, in this case specifically the Brits.
I have trained with Americans, this is what I believe, this includes with your Rangers and Airbourne units. In the British Army there is alot more walking instead of helicoptors, and at some point in the exercise you usually take a bloody nose and have to fall back!!! The exercises had regular “smokes” for r and r.
They don’t exercise as often, and they don’t go on Ops as often.
The lads I spoke to were amazed how often we conducted training, also they said they had around 2 - 3, even 5 depending on role, years between going on tour for 12monthns.
It is not a difficult thing to comprehend is it IRONMAN your army is huge, and does 12 month tours, our army is smaller and does 4 - 6 month tours. Throw into that an operation in NI that has been going on for 30 years and has occupied on average 15 Bns (all regular) at a time and the Gulfs, Falklands,Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone.
Do try to look at the big world around you, cretin.
The British Army has been operating in NI now for nearly 30 years, where shooting someone who wasn’t identified most certainly put the soldier in the dock, and there have been a few instances.
Speaks for itself, I dare you to prove otherwise, and that it wouldn’t have an affect on the soldiers descison to open fire.
Two things were found in the Falklands. 1. Section commanders were more capable and independant due to their experience in NI, where they were often the most senior person on the ground. 2. The descison to pull the trigger was thought to be slowed down by the experiences of NI.
I watched a program about a whole company of soldier in Iraq who had never seen combat, from OC and CSM to the new butt bunch. They were still conducting NBC drill tests days before the attack!!!
Well, the show was on, and that was why it was called “Virgin Soldiers” or similar. A whole company had never seen combat or Ops.
Although I don’t have official records, i would defy anyone to find even a Section or even a fire fire team in the british army that was 100% green.
WYSIWYG
Also in some units I seriously doubt their professionalism.
On a range with the yanks, I saw them DANCING on the fireing point, waving their gats all over the place, before they had been cleared!!!
I’ve seen a guy clear his weapon when coming in from a patrol and leave the mag on. After the round had hit the sand, he took the mag off, and fired the round that had been chambered after the last in to the sand!!!
Sorry, but anyone on my range starts dancing, they’ll start running or pushing them out, or I’ll robustly remove them from the range and charge them.
In the British Army we have big red boards behind our unloading bays, with the drill written on, also an NCO will ensure that the weapon is cleared prior to the bolt going forward. Professional, look it up in a dictionary.
It isn’t all about potshots, idiot, there are a lot of blokes on this site that are actually serving soldiers, who take interest in this sort of thing.
Whether you like it or not, the number of fratricides commited by your army is a classed as a joke in our army, although those that involved your blokes shooting our lads not so!!!
I have seen, as I am sure most Brits here have, actuall footage taken from an Apache shooting up his own side.
It is truely terrorfying watching. Especially his calm “whoops, I was afraid of that” when he realises what he has done!!
And consider the American A-10s, repeatedly (in both gulfs) straffing British Armour. On the flat desert, no hinderence to visiablitly.
Any way isn’t that the bugle calling you to a Michigan Militia meeting?
Also a quick warning.
Erwin and co got it aswell, so mayby I’m just anti-Americas!!!
I have served with the Gurkhas and am proud to have done so. If you post anything about them that is not true or accurate I will tell you so and put you right, politly.
I have heard somthing of your reputation, but not read your posts. With me you are a clean sheet.
Start taking idiotic pot shots at them, stand by, if you wish to know more about them PM me and I will direct you to information that is niether idiotic drivel or insane adoration of the finest soldiers in the world. Who incidentally serve with the other finest soldiers in the world, and the Indians.
It’s nothing to do with how many soldiers are deployed anywhere[/quote]
Yes. It has everything to do with it. Just learn to stifle your disdain enough so as not to endlessly spout anti-American blather. It’s non-productive and distasteful. There are I am sure forums devoted to that where like-minded sickos can share their putrid blather in brotherhood. Take it there, don’t spout your azz-mouth nationalsistic trash here. Okey dokey?
It’s nothing to do with how many soldiers are deployed anywhere[/quote]
Yes. It has everything to do with it. Just learn to stifle your disdain enough so as not to endlessly spout anti-American blather. It’s non-productive and distasteful. There are I am sure forums devoted to that where like-minded sickos can share their putrid blather in brotherhood. Take it there, don’t spout your azz-mouth nationalsistic trash here. Okey dokey?[/quote]
If it has everything to do with it, please spell it out for us poor third-world dwellers who haven’t had the benefit of the US’s excellent education system, rather than adopting the patronising and condescending tone that has made you the well-loved figure that you are on this board.
IRONMAN’s brain (so called) farted this
Just learn to stifle your disdain enough so as not to endlessly spout anti-American blather. It’s non-productive and distasteful. There are I am sure forums devoted to that where like-minded sickos can share their putrid blather in brotherhood. Take it there, don’t spout your azz-mouth nationalsistic trash here. Okey dokey?
From a man with
first-hand knowlege, like most Americans, that US troops are extensively trained and professional - nothing like what some of the boneheads who post on this site would have others believe
you don’t seem to have much of a clue at all.
Your method of defence is merely say other people are having a pop at your country.
How did you get your
first-hand knowlege, like most Americans,
watching TV? Or, with relation to your fathers experience, as a pads brat?
You seem to have taken lots of offence to what was IMHO all truthfull posts that had the odd tongue in cheek comment.
Do you feel inferior?
You say thing like above when America is mentioned, yet I have also seen some of your posts on others, ie The Gurkhas
See www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=251&highlight=gurkhas
the fact that the Spitfire was an American design (that sort of thing should be on Churchill; the Hollywood years!!) I’m still laughing now!!!
I ask again do you feel inferior? Perhaps you lack direction in life? Get a grip.
If someone posts something that you believe is wrong, tell them so. Don’t accuse them of being Nationalistic or some other pap. If you can dig up some information on the subject. You’ll find that little biteing comments like you make simply make the problem worse.
Okey Dokey?
It is like he had never been away, already he has created an argument and an air of hostility out of nothing, making us repeat ourselves purely so that he can beel beleagured and got at.
PS. I got my first hand experience of SPAMs working alongside them in training, exercises and on Ops. Which includes a memrable 9 months in the Gulf.
In Baghdad they didn’t even dig latrines, they just shat against the wall, the smell was rank!!! The guy with me was an AAEHA, and was flabergasted that the Yank seniors were letting it happen!!!
Another memorable moment.
I was up in Scotland with some trainees, and they were putting bashas up and patroling and all the usual stuff, when a Yank came over.
We had a little chat and he was awestruck at what he saw, as in blokes living under basha’s for a week, cooking their own rations etc.
Any way the pinnacle of the whole discussion was him exclaiming “Gee, are you guys Ranger trained!?”, “No” i replied “they’re trainees for the Royal Signals”.