Next time you’ll have the burning desire to publically recant, please don’t forget to add “IMO”, or even better, “IMHO” to each of your statements, “a Russian”.
As you once admitted “Sneaksie”, you are employed as an officer in MVD of Russian Federation… (For Western friends - Ministry of Internal Affairs).
Your rebuke to “Lexa” is very important or even significant…
Do you really mean, that you and some others bored fellows from your “institution”, can deny historical facts? Rewrite history? Turn everything up side down?
Very much soviet way of thinking! Very much!
You’re as red as a tomato Sneaksie!!! Please admit it!
(Nothing personal or insulting. If you are saying some things, unfortunately it mean that they have a bit more official meaning, than some youngsters bragging on the net.)
Lexa, thank you very much for your opinion. It’s very positive that people like you exist in Russia! We may argue on many topics, but once you accepted the principles, dialog is completely different… You are a real Russian! Good luck Friend!
Lancer44
LOL
Lancer44, i’m very proud that you think that i’m MVD officer, but i am not, though thank you, i’m flattered:) I have absolutely no idea where i admitted it, but if you want to think about me in such a way, you’re welcome:) This will be quite a reputation - “- ya know, that Sneaksie, yeah, who is KGB agent reallly… - Are you joking!!! WHOAH!! Cool!” :mrgreen:
As for “turning everything upside down” - i’m fighting against it myself.
You’re as red as a tomato Sneaksie!!! Please admit it!
I admit that i am from Russia and i don’t think that my country, or Russian people are responsible for any “war crimes” just because USSR was blamed for them by anyone, especially nazi Germany. If it equals to being “red”, then i’m “red”.
You are a real Russian!
Does it mean that the only ‘real Russian’ in your opinion is a Russian who feel guilty for Poles? Then it may be safely said that you are a real Pole :mrgreen:
The responsibility of NKVD for the Katyn massacre is the historical fact, not a somebody’s opinion or interpretation. The fact is acknowlewdged by official Russia, confirmed by Russian historians, mentionned in textbooks on history, etc. One can argue whether present-day Russia is responsible for USSR’s crimes or not. IMO 
a moral responsibility exists.
Hello,
As a dear russian friend of someone I do not know , I would like to express my thoughts on this subject. I am encoureged, am I not?
Well, I start by saying that I know almost nothing about Katyn case. Meaning that I have heard and read about it a little in the end of 80th and begining of 90th Russia. It was actually interesting for me to read this thread (and also rather time consuming).
I would like to see this topic in a bit different to most people here way.
First of all it looks like most of those people died in Katyn were murdered. This most probably constitutes crime. Not necessary in legal way but most importatly in moral way (for me at least).
If it was Germany or USSR I do not know. But I dod not doubt that Stalin could have done it back then in 1940 (By the way similar event would be rather unlikely after WW2, but this is another topic).
I can very well understand (and share) the will of Poles to find what happened.
But I can not leave the following remark (and that is where I think most posts here are different). This was not the biggest crime of Stalin by far.
Of course those killed in the forest and their relatives could not care less about it. And they are right. Again it was crime. But if one should look back and try to comprehend the epoche when all that happened, he whould see that it was neither a turning event nor the number of victims was so large for that time.
I can feel a little bit of exaguration of role of this in the history of WW2.
This would be understandable from a polish person. But from other poeple… well maybe… why not…
But it feel that this needs more investigation. At least by me.
Best regrads
Igor Korenev
G’day Igor,
Thanks for sensible post.
There is no doubt than Katyn is just a small fragment of bolscheviks Stalin’s
regime murders.
Comparing 22,000 killed with millions of Russians, Ukrainians victims and others from all nationalities living in USSR is absolutely naive and no one knowing history would do it.
Also looking at Polish victims of Stalin which died in Gulag camps, 22,000 is not much.
But for Poles Katyn is particularly significant. (Talking about Katyn I mean all execution places.)
All together from professional officers cadre of the Polish Army, NKWD killed:
Generals: 12
Colonels and lieutenant-colonels - 300
Majors - 500
Captains - 2500
Lieutenants and second lieutenants - 5000
Figures are obviously rounded.
The rest were reservists of all ranks including police officers, lawyers, teachers, academicians, doctors.
Just from medical profession about 800 perished.
Katyn was the “bloodiest battle” of the Polish Army and as such is remembered.
Can you recall any battle of WWII in which any army would have such losses in elite officers cadre?
Poland lost it’s elite and as a result soviet domination after the war was much easier to implement.
Quality of “new elites” formed after the war is doubtful.
Just look at todays Polish Parliament and government. Pathetic circus…
I can risk thesis, that before 1917 Revolution in Russia, Polish and Russian elites had much better and closer contacts and understanding despite XIX century uprisings and rebellions against tzar.
Elimination of Russian elites and large percentage of intelligentsia by bolscheviks first, than Polish elites in Katyn and - no doubt also by the Germans in numerous camps and executions - created vacuum.
As a result relationship between Poland and Russia is as is. Bad.
Perhaps we can change it gradually. Reasonable opinions like yours and Laxa’s
bringing some hope.
Cheers,
Lancer44
P.S.
Sneaksie,
Nickdfresh and me remember your post in which you admitted that you’re working in MVD. You edited it but we know…
Mate, it’s nothing wrong with it. It’s different Russia and no one is trying to tell, that you’re NKWD or KGB.
Every country need good cops. And I believe you may be the good one.
L44
Hi Lexa,
Welcome to this Forum!
Well, moral responsibility in a form of understanding has got nothing to do with any young Russian feeling guilty, what Sneaksie mentioned.
Such thing is idiotic. Responsible and intelligent Poles want understanding and friendship with Russians.
But denial of facts on Russian side is as dangerous for potential friendship as nationalistic blubber on Polish side.
I despise idiots promoting friction between both countries in Poland.
But don’t worry, they loosing ground. Politically they are bankrupt already.
It’s just a matter of time.
Thanks for your posts! Much hope is in them. Hope for friendship and future.
Cheers,
Lancer44
Lancer, i swear by all that is dear for me that i have no idea what you’ve read (maybe its some mistake) and i’m not a cop and i dont work in MVD; i agree that every country needs good cops of course. About post editing - you deleted your thread about “pig test space launch” after i’ve shown you that these are a fake photos and i didn’t say anything about it. As for what i edited in my posts - i didn’t say i work in MVD or such; what you’ve seen is either translation error or you’ve mistaken me for other user.
Well, in this situation I sincerely apologise…
As I said nothing wrong with MVD and good people are everywhere, so you should not feel too offended.
Sorry, mate!
Perhaps I had a couple too many and sat to computer. Forgive me.
I deleted “flying pig” because this Forum is more about facts not cinematographical jokes. :-)))
Cheers,
Lancer44
No offence taken;)