[quote=“Komissar_Ombrok”]
Really don’t know. All testing was two weeks, but also including about 400 km of ground moving. Clear time of water transportation is not been published.[/quote]
When took place this test?
The German Air Force didn’t have a bomb that could penetrate the deck armour of British battleships. The English Channel is notorious for it’s bad weather, even in summer (look at D-Day being delayed by 24 hours because of storms) - if it was too rough for big heavy landing craft, small swimming tanks would have had no chance.
Afaik, July 1939.
Yes. But Red Army has exellent 4-tonns bombs. One, maximum two bombs enough to destroy any battleship. In D-Day was used tanks not adaptive to swimming. The hull of abrams - not more good then axe for swim. Soviet swimming tank was initiually researched for such types of operations. Anti-water protection of radiator and gun, germetic hull, good hull form for swim. See to the front side of tracks! That form? theoretically very vulnerable to hit, but give to tank ability of climb very high point for landing.
What if Germany didn’t invade Russia ?
As the old Intourist slogan went:
"Visit the Soviet Union !
(Before the Soviet Union visits you…)"
Yep. It’s true… That was old joke, about 1980, (G)erman and (S)oviet officers talking:
B: I go to work on the Folkswagen, to the outskirt I have an Opel, when I want to go to other countries I take my Mercedes
S: Hmm… To outskirt I go with train, to work with bus. And to the other countries I go only by tank…
Contrary to any popular misconception, hitting a moving ship with a straight and level bomber isnt easy at all. Dive bombers even have a problem if they are untrained.
I have 2 problems with the swimming tanks and heavy bomber theory.
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The swimming tanks idea is just too far fetched. Wheres the infantry support, the logistics support etc etc etc.
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Back to the Air Force, they had no experience in attacking Capital Ships and as far as I know had no Torpedo armed aircraft.
Welll, if Nazi Germany Stayed neutral or even Allied with the soviet Union i think they would of caused a more major impact on europe, and the war would of gone on alot longer and if that happeend then POSSIBLY the U.S.A would drop an Atom Bomb on Berlin.
By the Way Dani, you got some really amazing and awesome pictures mate.
Yes, but TB-7 has a special targeting system, with good testing results. Of course, testing results always better than real usability but they was also more better than other bombers…
Also, Stalin has initiated project “Ivanov” before war. Ivanov - that’s most popular russian Last name. In Stalins idea, that was name of plane which production willbe more than people in Russia withthat name. That was equal of Ju-88, but chepest in control and prioduction. Something like Air “T-34”. In plans was quantity of 150 000 planes! For complecting it with pilots, Stalin trained not officers, but sergeants! 230 000 “flight sergeants” with shorten training, studied only battle in close formation. The Britain Navy might expected the something like Pearl Harbour, but in greatest scale. But after Hitlers attack, project was close, because the operations of such planes is impossible without air domination. And all industry power was sent to fighter-interseptors and “flight sergeants” was transfered to infantry.
About tanks. Before war was trained more 5 000 000 paratroopers, and send in reserve, until time. Thats might be infantry support for landing operation. With strong air support of tactic bombers and swimming tanks, that forces may take good piece of territory and hold it until arrival of more strong forces.
At the start of the war, the strength of the Red Army was 1,500,000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army). So I’m disputing your claim of 5,000,000 trained paratroopers, since it’s patently ridiculous. You seem to be making an awful lot of claims like this - are you working from Soviet era textbooks or something?
Also, the Ivanov was not put into production:
http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/ivanov-polik.html
And was certainly not the equal of the JU88:
Ivanov: 410km/h, 900kg bombs, 1000km?, 8800m ceiling
JU88: 470km/h, 3000kg bombs, 2730km, 8200m ceiling
If you think that I’m getting at you personally, I’m not - every time anyone makes a strange sounding claim on here, it’s investigated (Ferrous gent’s legacy).
I studied many materials. But you right - 1.500 000 official. + about 500 000 of NKVD army. But that was Army of peace time. There is a mobilization reserve of trained, but reserved soldiers. I strongly recommend to find book “Day-M” of V. Suvorov, but afaik it restricted in Britain and USA. Find it in the i-net.
Also, the Ivanov was not put into production
Yes, as I said, because all industry was send to build interseptors.
And was certainly not the equal of the JU88:
Ivanov: 410km/h, 900kg bombs, 1000km?, 8800m ceiling
JU88: 470km/h, 3000kg bombs, 2730km, 8200m ceiling
Of course, it didn’t copy the Ju-88, but I mean, the strategic and tactic use of that planes was same. Small tactic bomber. Btw, read the Halland, for increasing bombers range, Ju - 88, offen take only two 500 kg-bomb (very close to Ivanov) and range of Ivanov was about 2000 km, not 1000
That’s true for sure.
I don’t have anything to oppose investigation. Do it. I think, to be historian, even hobby-historian, is to ability to ask questions and find answers. I think, I can make some questions for you, but I don’t think that you will like some answers 
[quote=“Komissar_Ombrok”]
I studied many materials. But you right - 1.500 000 official. + about 500 000 of NKVD army. But that was Army of peace time. There is a mobilization reserve of trained, but reserved soldiers. I strongly recommend to find book “Day-M” of V. Suvorov, but afaik it restricted in Britain and USA. Find it in the i-net. [/quote]
I’m afraid I do not believe the figure of 5,000,000 trained paratroopers held in reserve - here are the strengths of the airbourne forces, incl. reserves: http://www.1jma.dk/articles/1jmaarticlesww2russiaparatroops.htm
You will also find that the USA and UK do not restrict the availability of books - I can walk into any serious bookshop & walk out with “Mein Kampf”.
[quote]Also, the Ivanov was not put into production
Yes, as I said, because all industry was send to build interseptors.[/quote]
What about the Neman R10 which was put into production instead of the Ivanov? What about all the medium & heavy bombers? Not all industry was switched to producing interceptors!
[quote]And was certainly not the equal of the JU88:
Ivanov: 410km/h, 900kg bombs, 1000km?, 8800m ceiling
JU88: 470km/h, 3000kg bombs, 2730km, 8200m ceiling
Of course, it didn’t copy the Ju-88, but I mean, the strategic and tactic use of that planes was same. Small tactic bomber. Btw, read the Halland, for increasing bombers range, Ju - 88, offen take only two 500 kg-bomb (very close to Ivanov) and range of Ivanov was about 2000 km, not 1000[/quote]
The JU88 is not a small tactical bomber - it’s a medium bomber! Comparing apples and oranges!
That means you don’t know all about books Try to find books of V.Suvorov “Day-M” and “Suicide” or “Purge”. You will be surprised.
What about the Neman R10 which was put into production instead of the Ivanov? What about all the medium & heavy bombers? Not all industry was switched to producing interceptors!
Not all, but that was more usable for defensive war. Heavy bombers - for strategic bombing, medium - for cover operations. No one massive attack by tactical bombers was made by Soviet. Only by germans and japanesse.
The JU88 is not a small tactical bomber - it’s a medium bomber! Comparing apples and oranges!
Medium? Hm… This is very relative. What form of separation on class you use?
Wikipedia’s definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_bomber
A medium bomber is a bomber aircraft designed to operate with medium bombloads over medium distances; primarily to distinguish them from the much larger heavy bombers and smaller light bombers. The term was used primarily prior to and during World War II, when engine power was so scarce that designs had to be carefully tailored to their missions. The medium bomber was generally considered to be any design that delivered about 4,000 lb (1.8 t) over ranges of about 1,500 to 2,000 miles (2,400 to 3,200 km). Heavy bombers were those with a nominal load of 8,000 lb (3.6 t) or more, and light bombers carried 2,000 lb (0.9 t) loads. These distinctions were already disappearing by the middle of WWII, when the average fighter aircraft could now carry a 2,000 lb (0.9 t) load and ever more powerful engines allowed “light” designs to largely take over the missions formerly filled by mediums.
Ok. With such zero point, Ju-88 is medium bomber ( I used russian system of classification, there Ju was light bomber) But in the use, was no big difference between Ju and Ivanov…
Besides the fact that you need at least 4 Ivanovs for every Ju
I prefer number 3.
If the plan of build 150 000 Ivanov was reelized, then how much Ivanov would be on the one Ju? I think enough…
Another fantastical claim here. It just presumes so much without any proof.
Anyway, the only reason that the Soviet Union was able to produce the numbers it did was with massive aid. Most food, clothing for uniforms, fuel, transport (over 500,000) trucks, Half Tracks, a lot of armour and thousands of tons of alluminium to build the aircraft came from the US.
Not much use in have 150000 planes when everyone to fly them is starving to death is there.
Comrade Joes big book of Stalinist bed time fables is where half this rot comes from.