What weapons do you like or dislike?

Hmmm,

for me liking a weapon has more to do with its effectiveness and efficiency, and perhaps if it was innovatory, ease of use and carrying the bloody thing and drilling with it, rather than appearance or the machining of the receiver or not.

I just don’t find weapons to be appealing in any other way. Though nice lines - as in the SMLE-III - don’t hurt.

As a trained* small arms trainer, my favourite weapon was the one I ran into on the course* at the Infantry Centre.

? The L4, 7.62 NATO version of the Bren gun. Our Lithgow SAF (actory) conversions retained the long/narrow beaten zone of the original. IE the Bren was very accurate - as LMG’s go. And we had good reason to keep that feature.

I had never enjoyed using the - then recently dropped by the regs - M60 as a squad gun. It made the Bren look like a marvel, which it sort of was IMO.

It had become apparent to me - both in the reserves and on FTD - late 1960’s and 1970’s - that the M60 GPMG was not as good as it could have been - at least! as a squad/section gun. That it was heavy and awkward to carry, would not have mattered if it had been really good, rather than merely acceptable.

On the course it was very clear that all the regulars, students and instructors felt the same way. The L4 was welcomed by them.

We did have around four days on tripod mounted MG’s. Our tripods copied the recoiling fluid damped top plate of the MG42’s tripod. Two guns - the M60 - with which we all had stoppages and breakages - and the L7 GPMG - no problems. The staff were ‘assessing’ the L7 and it was soon adopted.

Later I did the Centre’s MG course, with the L7.

the faults of the M60?

running away - gun goes through a whole belt when hot!!! the sear!? - low service-life, and some wore out very fast.

No single shot option. And as it fired from an open bolt, the first burst might not go where you wanted it too.

Link stoppages - the belts links come apart as you fire and can, and do, get in the way of the feed mechanism, jamming it. Burnt fingers!!

Note that the feed was a copy of the excellent one in the MG42 - but IT used non-disintegrating-link belts. ;-)!

The changeable* barrel really wasn’t, no handle? an asbestos glove and a way too short spanner - insufficient leverage? The US Army went through a LOT more barrels then planned for in 'Nam, as a HOT* barrel wears very quickly.

*After 400 rounds IIRC, just four belts!

Stripping one in the dark was a no-no, as you could easily put the gas-piston in backwards, and still assemble the gun. Then it would fire one shot, and had to go to the armourer.

poorly balanced, and awkward, more so than the Bren, and harder to control when firing from the hip.

So, the L4 Bren is the only weapon I used enough to LIKE it. It worked, and kept on working.

The handle on the barrel for twisting it and taking it off, worked well.

With rimless ammo the magazines could be filled.

Easy to fire, controllable, even from the hip, rounds went where you meant them to.

My second favourite was the Lee-Enfield, which we all got to fire during the course. NICE. Australia’s own sniper version of the SMLE III, with a heavy barrel, and a WWII made WWI design 'scope. I often wished that I’d bought at least one sporterised SMLE action, rather than the 4 Mauser action hunting rifle I did buy. The IC museum did have a couple of P14 snipers, which our Commandos on Timor used against the Japanese.

Although I shot well with the L1A1-SLR I never got to like having a bruised cheek - aka the FN-FAL!> I enjoyed drill, eventually, let alone teaching it ;-)!!! so I didn’t HATE the thing.

I trusted the Browning High-Power pistol I was issued, one box of ammo a week down at the base’ test-range, and then you CAN hit things with them! Yep, really!!!

I was gifted a short commando version of the Armalite - which was a gift from a Yank supply sgt. Used to clip it just below the front of the seat in ‘the jeep’.

If I’d had to carry and maintain an AK47, which I’ve stripped, cleaned and fired 2-mags through I think I’d have LOVED it! Sensible rational LIGHT thing that it was.

Weapons I HATED?

  • I positively FEARED hand grenades - Mills, and 26M. Most of my experience with them being teaching recruits about them, and then being in the pit with them while they threw a few live ones. I hated throwing the bloody things myself. And so should / would you have.
    {:~| !!

the Enfield .38 revolver, the ‘DA only’ ones us weekend warriors got lumped with.

And the dud AT projectiles I was trained to clear. Yes, I did do ‘the blinds course’. Silly old me!

ATK rounds from the 3.5 RL and the Energa 94 RG, and the LAW, and the Carl-Gustav RCL.

Just lying on the ground’s creepy enough, but if they lodge in a shrub and fail to explode …

I’ll get out of yer way now, shall I!?

Tim B

So, considering your remarkable experience, have you ever fired the German assault rifles? G3, G36? How about the MG3 or MG4? MP5, MP7?

I’m pretty curious to see how they hold up to your criticism :smiley:

the H&K assault rifles were by all reports excellent weapons, they were blow-back types IIRC?, and to do that succesfully with 7.62 Nato rounds is an achievement. I read that blow-back implementations are now more sophisticated.

the only assault rifles I’ve fired were the M16, and that Commando.

yeah, that’s true.

I’m assuming that with Commando, you mean the commando type not commando style :smiley:

Likes and dislikes…

Likes:

The Glock, P-35, 1911, and yes Makarov, are very very sturdy handguns. I’ve owned them all in several flavors.

The Garand, in it’s day, was the best. The M-14 is really what the Garand should have been! The FAL is what the M-14 should have been. The AK was the right weapon for the 60s. And the AR is the right weapon for today (and that is more because of what they have done to the AR platform than what the AR platform was back in the 60s.) And yes I’ve owned the simi-auto version of all of 'em.

Thompson submachinegun was good but awful heavy. Funny thing is Thompson himself wanted these qualities:

Simplicity
Accessibility
Positive action under all conditions
Normally light weight <----- the 1st eight did weigh 7 lb!
High rate of controlled fire.

http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/PSharpe1.html

You guys know they made a 351 Winchester version? And a Remington-Thompson .45 cartridge that gave 1450 fps for a 250gr slug?

Dislike? French Lebel and their later MAS rifle. I knew better than to own one of them. Sorry!

Deaf

So, how would you compare an M1 Garand to an SVT-40? My understanding was that that one was very good, too.

Hi.
I have always liked the modern Enfield, I could manage a 2" group at 200 yards (old money!) and rapid fire, a 4" group all in the bull, I think thats why I ended up in the regimental rifle team. We also handled the old fashioned Sten, what an abortion! Coming out of the artillery, a true glutton for punishment, I joined the RAF and was introduced to the Bren, wonderful weapon. Big difference, in the army, I was payed 1s 2p for my marksman badge, the RAF don’t.

Ken

I rather liked the Mauser 98K, but when it comes to bolt-action rifles, I’d take my Lee-Enfield any day of the week. The action is buttery smooth, and though the .303 isn’t the most efficient round, it does pack a pretty good wallop. The Mosin-Nagant 91/30 and other variants were OK, but their actions were stiff. It also took some work for me to make my 91/30 and M44 reasonably accurate. I do like the 7.62X54R round that the Russians used though. The M1 Garand and 1903 Springfield are great rifles, and the 30-06 round is pretty awesome too. I don’t know, really. When it comes down to it, I guess I like almost all of them for some reason or other. If I had to pick an absolute favorite, I would choose my SMLE. It just feels right to me. Pistol wise, it would be a three-way toss-up between the P-38, P-08, and M1911. Obviously the 1911 packs the most punch, but I really dig the natural (for me) aim point of the German pistols - especially the Luger. Machine guns would have to be either the MG-42 or M2. One for the rate of fire, and the other for WHAT it fires. From a practicality standpoint, the STG-44 has to be mentioned, and was probably the most versatile gun of the war. It spawned some truly amazing weapons afterwards too. I guess I just like 'em all too much!

Well you can try to compare the M1 Garand and the SVT-40. The Garand had an 8 bullet clip and was the first semi automatic rifle that was standard for any army when it was first used. It had a really good design and could be mass produced quickly. The Garand was also very reliable in the hands of the G.I’s. The SVT-40 came around after the Garand and was very complex to create. Also it was very very expensive and unreliable even with a 10 bullet clip. Russians preferred the Mosin-Nagant rifle. Only problem with the Garand was the fact that it made a destinctive sound when it clipped out.

The STG-44 was the first assault rifle in the world and brought about the AK-47 which is the most numerous assault rifle in the world. I remember it was like 20 million that was created to this day? Something like that. The STG-44 was an awesome weapon but one problem was that it couldn’t be mass produced fast enough to have any effect on the war.

The best machine gun was indeed the Mg-42 with its tremendous rate of fire. The massive volume of fire it could put out had surpassed any of its opponents and it was pretty mobile. Only problem was that the quick rate of fire chewed through heaps of ammunition and also melted the barrel. Machine gun crews had to carry along spare barrels to exchange. This was an awesome gun

Agreed…Mg42 is my favourite.

I also wonder why the flamethrower didn’t get a mention… It was highly effective in the pacific and jungle combat, used for flushing out bunkers and such… Only problem was that a bullet in the tank meant the flamethrower would blow up into smithereens but overall it was a good weapon. Burn baby burn

fatmannz, that’s nothing but a myth. A flamethrower tank would not blow up when struck by a bullet, unless it was an incendiary round.

My favourite weapon depends on what standpoint. For instance, if I were a general I’d love the T-34/85. But as a tanker, I think I’d prefer the King Tiger.

It’s the one with the collapsible butt and very short barrel.

Fricking NOISY device, but beat the pants off the High Power as something to actually use.

I’ve only fired the MG3 version, and it was pretty damned lively on a bipod.

When firing long bursts, which was pretty easy to do, the empty belt got very hot, no-one I know has asbestos fingers.

The barrel change system? Good to have but there’s no handle, unlike the L4A4 (? Nato ammo Bren) which I grew to love.

Accurate / it didn’t jump about.

IME&O a weapon that sprays ammo around just wastes it.

Have you ever fired an MG42!?

OTOH I do find the noise of the MG3/ MG42 pretty scary. And also note that mounted on a tripod with a recoiling oil-damped interface the MG3 is a VERY effective MMG. I don’t know if their MG tripods in WWII had this feature.

Timbo

don’t know if this is apples and oranges but I’d put my money on the Ma Deuce. It may not have the rate of fire of the MG42 but the range and penetration make it well worth the weight. But I doubt you’d see this weapon on an OR-BAT less than company level. I’ve had experience with the M1919 and based on that, I cannot see why we stuck with that instead of adapting something like the MG34, let alone the 42. How Browning could have hit the mark so well with the M2 HB and missed so far with the M1919 is beyond me.
As for the Bren, from my experience with the FNC2 (Canada’s section automatic that predated the SAW they use now-Minime?) 30 rounds of suppressive fire is far too brief to be of great effect. So I think of the Bren and add to that that it’s half again as heavy. No thanks. Sure it looks awesome but usually you don’t see the weapon that kills you in the field. I’m a great proponent of belt fed LMGs.

The Bren was a section weapon that was usually fired in 3 round bursts at a specific target, it was too accurate really to be used as an area supressive fire weapon. It backed up the Lee Enfield’s quite well as they could fire 10 aimed rounds a minute (controlled fire).

The British doctrine was to conserve ammunition hence the reason the SLR was only single shot when most nations used the full automatic capable FN.

I will say that after using the LMG (nato chambered bren) for 10 years the only pain was refilling the 12 magazines you were issued with each weapon (the number 2 spent most of his time refilling if in prolonged action). It was very accurate (tendancy to walk forward at times dragging you with it) lighter than the GPMG and required less ammunition due to lower rate of fire and differing use.
The British army relegated the LMG to second line roles (non infantry units) starting in the 50’s when it adopted the GPMG. The LMG has been superseded itself by the LSW since the early ninety’s (although it has been in service since the mid 80’s) but it is still used in the same way as the LMG ‘sort of long range burst/sniping fire and not as a supressive fire weapon’.
Note the infantry were originally issued 2 LSW to replace each GPMG in a section but soon reverted back to carrying a GPMG for its supressive fire ability.

Current section composition is typically 2 x LSW, 2 x Minimi, 2 x IW with UGL and 2 x IW (sect comd. and 2IC), although this varies massively on operations with additional weapons (e.g. Javelin, the new AR-15 derivative in 7.62mm that the army has just bought, etc.).

Similar to the American doctrine with the M-14 in the late 1950s and 60s. But also because generally speaking, 7.62X51mm rifles are almost useless on full auto–unless the user is extremely proficient. I believe the US Army did have a few designated men with full auto capable M-14s though…

I’d still want to have cyclical fire capable rifle though, and thought the three-round-burst thing (M-16A2/A4) might be a problem if actually having to clear rooms in a close quarters urban environment, and there I think there have been some problems recorded in Iraq…