Which Was The Best Dive Bomber During World War Ii

Site Issues 2008 Archive Room
#21

Hi Chevan :slight_smile:

I thought that you would like that piece of information. It’s true that although the P-47 was a very rugged fighter-bomber it was not as well armoured as dedicated ground attack aircraft such as the IL-2; nor did it’s main armament have the equivalent penetrating power. The P-47’s armor-piercing M2 .50 cal ammunition could penetrate the deck armour of most German tanks (including the Pzkw V Panther), but not the heaviest such as Pzkw VI Tiger. However, the Thunderbolt has been credited with practically destroying the German and Italian railroads.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100635&postcount=3

[b]Rip (back then Lieutenant Collins) was a WW II fighter pilot from the class of 44-C, Aloe Field, Victoria, Texas. Rip was assigned to the 40th Fighter Squadron, a Squadron in the 35th Fighter Group, Fifth Air Force, FEAF (Far East Air Forces) in the Pacific…

Rip flew both the P-47 and P-51 in combat in the Pacific. He is a big fan of the P-47, … Partial quotes from Rip Collin’s words:[/b]

In addition to being a first class fighter, it was also a superb fighter-bomber and ground level strafer. Jugs practically wiped out the German and Italian railroads. I have strafed Japanese trains, troops, ships, gunboats, warships, airfields, ammo dumps, hangers, antiaircraft installations, you name it. I felt secure in my P-47.

  1. The Republic Thunderbolt had a radial engine that could take hits and keep on running. I know of an actual case where a Jug brought a pilot back from Borneo after 8 hours in the air. The pilot landed with the master cylinder and three other cylinders blown out of commission. But the Jug kept chugging along, running well enough to bring its pilot back safely to his base at Morotai. I was there.

  2. The Jug’s radial engine was air cooled, instead of liquid cooled with a radiator system, like the Mustang’s V-12. This is significant because one small caliber hit on an aluminum cooling line in a Mustang would let the coolant leak out, and when the coolant was gone, the engine seized, and the show was over.

I took a small caliber hit in a coolant tube over Formosa (Taiwan). When I landed back at base, my crew chief said, “Lieutenant, did you know you got hit?” I replied, “No.” He continued, “You took a small caliber shell in the coolant tube on the right side of the engine. I’d give you between 10 and 15 minutes flying time remaining.” I had just flown from Formosa, over nothing but the Pacific Ocean, to our fighter strip on Okinawa.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108603&postcount=25
By 1944, the Thunderbolt was in combat with the USAAF in all its operational theaters, except the Battle of the Aleutian Islands. With increases in fuel capacity as the type was refined, the range of escort missions over Europe steadily increased until the P-47 was able to accompany bombers in raids all the way into Germany. On the way back from the raids, pilots shot up ground targets of opportunity, and also used belly shackles to carry bombs on short-range missions, which led to the realization that the P-47 could perform a dual-function on escort missions as a fighter-bomber. Even with its complicated turbosupercharger system it could absorb a lot of damage, and its eight machine guns could inflict heavy damage on lightly armored targets. The P-47 gradually became the USAAF’s best fighter-bomber, carrying the 500 pound (227 kg) bombs, the triple-tube M-8 4.5 inch (115 mm) rocket launchers, and eventually HVARs. From the invasion of Europe on June 6, 1944, to VE day on May 7, 1945, the Thunderbolt destroyed 86,000 railway cars, 9,000 locomotives, 6,000 armored fighting vehicles, and 68,000 trucks.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108603&postcount=25
P-47D Thunderbolt - Specifications
Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney R-2800-59 twin-row radial engine, 2,535 hp (1,890 kW)
Maximum speed: 426 mph at 30,000 ft (685 km/h at 9,145 m)
Range: 800 miles combat, 1,800 mi ferry (1,290 km / 2,900 km)
Service ceiling: 43,000 ft (13,100 m)

P-47N Thunderbolt - Specifications
Powerplant: One 2,800-hp Pratt and Whitney R-2800-57,-73,or -77 18-cylinder two-row radial engine
Maximum speed: 467 m.p.h. (752 km/h) at 32,500 ft (685 km/h at 9,145 m)
Range: 2,170 miles (3,492 km.) with drop tanks
Service ceiling: 43,000 ft (13,100 m)

Pratt & Whitney R-2800
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_&_Whitney_R-2800

Yes, in flight simulators I preferred to use the IL-2 for ground attack missions. It could absorb a great deal of punishment and packed quite a punch as well. :slight_smile:

All the Best,

George

#22

But the P-47 was much faster and more powerful, at least when taking power-to-weight ratio into account. And using rockets instead of having to aim a bomb on a small two-by-three meter target probably somewhat aided its survivability…

And I didn’t realize this, but there was a dedicated ground-attack dive-bomber variant of the Mustang developed for the RAF called the A-36:

A-36 Apache/Invader

Main article: North American A-36

At the same time, the USAAC was becoming more interested in ground attack aircraft and had a new version ordered as the A-36 Apache, which included six .50 M2 Browning machine guns, dive brakes and the ability to carry two 500 lb (230 kg) bombs.

In early 1942, the USAAF ordered 500 aircraft modified as dive bombers that were designated A-36A (NA-97). This model became the first USAAF Mustang to see combat. One aircraft was passed to the British who gave it the name Mustang I (Dive Bomber).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-51_Mustang

From the A-36 Wiki link"

…The A-36A proved to be a potent weapon; it could be put into a vertical dive at 12,000 ft, deploying its dive brakes, limiting the dive speed to 390 mph. Pilots soon recognized that extending the dive brakes after “peel-off” led to some unequal extension of the brakes due to varying hydraulic pressure, setting up an invariable slight roll which impeded aiming. Proper technique soon cured this anomaly and, subsequently, pilots achieved extremely consistent results[9]. Depending on the target and defences, the bomb release took place between 2,000 ft and 4,000 ft, followed by an immediate sharp “pull up.”[13]

#23

It’s surprising what you can dive bomb with when you put your mind to it. Even Spitfires were used against V-1 launch sites in the rather imaginatively named “no ball” operations. Apparently they managed to get reasonable results, although from what I have read the technique relied rather a lot on luck…

#24

Hi Nick :slight_smile:

It’s kind of ironic that the P-47, which had it’s best performance at high altitude, was used so frequently in the later stages of the war at low altitude (where it’s performance was more sluggish) for ground attack missions. But, it’s rugged construction and radial engine made it more ideal than the Mustang for reasons mentioned previously. Interestingly, Major George E. Preddy, Jr., the top American Mustang ace in the ETO was killed, ironically, by friendly ground fire at low altitude on 25 Dec 1944.

Major George E. Preddy, Jr.
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=89626&postcount=15

Top Mustang Ace
352nd Fighter Group, Eighth Air Force
The Complete Fighter Pilot

http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_preddy.html

http://www.aviation-history.com/airmen/preddy.htm

http://www.highironillustrations.com/aviation/fullhouse_1.html

http://www.modelaces.com/148_scale_model/p47d_thunderbolt.php

http://www.starduststudios.com/GPTMA.htm
http://www.web-birds.com/8th/352/352.html


P-51 MUSTANG CRIPES A’ MIGHTY 3rd ALUMINUM AIRCRAFT NOSE ART PANEL
http://www.pacprod.com/cgi-bin/hazelnt.exe?action=DETAIL&item=MVP51C


http://www.starduststudios.com/bluegep.htm


Maj. George E. Preddy, Jr.
328th FS 352nd FG
North Carolina
December 25, 1944
Lorraine American Cemetery and Memorial
St. Avold (Moselle), France
http://www.352ndfightergroup.com/assoc/memorial.html

Interesting that he died on Christmas Day while flying his plane named “CRIPES A’ MIGHTY”.

SBD Dauntless
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBD_Dauntless

A-24 Banshee

The U.S. Army had its own version of the SBD, known as the A-24 Banshee, it was the same aircraft except it came it came without the tail hook used for carrier landings, and a pneumatic line replaced the solid tail wheel on some of them. First assigned to the 27th Bombardment Group (Light) at Hunter Field, Ga., A-24s participated in the Louisiana maneuvers during September 1941. There were two versions of the A-24, the A-24A and A-24B were produced and used by the Army in the early stages of the war.

The U.S. Army sent 52 A-24 Banshee’s in crates to the Philippine Islands in the fall of 1941 in order to increase the American defense there with the 27th Bombardment Group, however with the attack of Pearl Harbor, these aircraft were diverted to Australia where they were assembled. While in Australia, these aircraft were plagued with mechanical problems and would see combat with the 91st Bombardment Squadron. On February 17, 1942, only seven of the original 52 A-24s were combat ready. The A-24s had worn-out engines, no armor plating, and no self sealing fuel tanks. Referring to themselves as “Blue Rock Clay Pigeons.” The 91st attacked the enemy harbor and airbase at Bali and damaged or sunk numerous ships around Java. After the Japanese shot down two A-24s and damaged three so badly they could no longer fly, the 91st received orders to evacuate Java in early March, ending a brief but valiant effort.

The Banshee’s left in Australia were assigned to the 8th Bombardment Squadron, 3rd Bombardment Group, to defend New Guinea. On July 26, 1942, seven A-24s attacked a convoy off Buna, but only one survived: the Japanese shot down five of them and damaged the sixth so badly that it did not make it back to base. Regarded by many pilots as too slow, too short-ranged and too poorly armed, the remaining A-24s were relegated to non-combat missions. In the United States, the A-24s became training aircraft or towed targets for aerial gunnery training. The more powerful A-24B was used later against the Japanese forces in the Gilbert Islands.

Although it was already reaching obsolescence by 1941, the SBD was used until 1944 when the Dauntless undertook its last major action during the Battle of the Philippine Sea. However, some Marine squadrons utilized Dauntlesses until the end of the war. It had already been replaced by the SB2C Helldiver in the U.S. Navy, much to the dismay of the pilots, many of whom believed that the “Slow But Deadly” Dauntless was a better aircraft than the Helldiver, which gained the nickname “Son of a Bitch 2nd Class.” The Dauntless was one of the most important aircraft in the Pacific Theatre of World War II, sinking more enemy shipping in the Pacific war than any other US or Allied aircraft. In addition, Barrett Tilman, in his book on the Dauntless, claims that the Dauntless has a “plus” score against enemy aircraft, a rare event for a nominal “bomber” indeed.

5,936 SBDs were produced in World War II.

#25

[b]

The Dauntless was one of the most important aircraft in the Pacific Theatre of World War II, sinking more enemy shipping in the Pacific war than any other US or Allied aircraft. In addition, Barrett Tilman, in his book on the Dauntless, claims that the Dauntless has a “plus” score against enemy aircraft, a rare event for a nominal “bomber” indeed.

[/b]

Indeed, no more no less than the killer of the japanese aicraft carriers at Midway, incidentally one Dauntless gunner nearly killed the famous japanese ace Saburo Sakai when struck it in the head with his ,30 caliber MGs.

#26

Very true PK :slight_smile:

Saburo Sakai
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saburo_Sakai

Serious wounds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saburo_Sakai#Serious_wounds

[b]During the air group’s first missions of the battle of Guadalcanal, Sakai was seriously wounded in combat with Douglas SBD-3 Dauntless dive bombers from USS Enterprise’s Bombing Squadron Six (VB-6). Mistaking SBD Dauntless dive bombers, with their rear gunners, for American F4F fighters, near Tulagi Sakai attacked an SBD flown by Ensign Robert C. Shaw. Sakai fired 232 rounds at the SBD but with its armor, self-sealing fuel tanks and twin machine guns in the rear cockpit, the dive bomber proved a tough adversary. A blast from the SBD rear gunner, Harold L. Jones, shattered and blew away the canopy of Sakai’s Zero.

Sakai sustained grievous injuries from the return fire; he was struck in the head by a .30 caliber bullet, blinding him in the right eye.[/b] The Zero rolled over and headed upside down toward the sea. Unable to see out of his remaining good eye due to blood flowing from the head wound, Sakai’s vision started to clear somewhat as tears cleared the blood from his eyes and he was able to pull his plane out of the steep seaward dive. He considered crashing into one of the American warships: “If I must die, at least I could go out as a Samurai. My death would take several of the enemy with me. A ship. I needed a ship.” Finally the cold air blasting into the cockpit revived him enough to check his instruments, and he decided that by using a lean fuel mixture he might be able to make it back to the airfield at Rabaul.

Although in agony from his injuries (he had a serious head wound [8] from a bullet that had passed through his skull and the left side of his brain, leaving the entire left side of his body paralyzed, and was left blind in one eye[9]) Sakai managed to fly his damaged Zero in a four-hour, 47-minute flight over 560 nautical miles (1,040 km) back to his base on Rabaul, using familiar volcanic peaks as guides. When he attempted to land at the airfield he nearly crashed into a line of parked Zeros but, after circling four times, and with the fuel gauge reading empty, he put his Zero down on the runway on his second attempt. After landing, he insisted on making his mission report to his superior officer before collapsing. His squadron mate Hiroyoshi Nishizawa drove him, as quickly but as gently as possible, to the surgeon. Sakai was evacuated to Japan on August 12, where he endured a long surgery without anesthesia. The surgery repaired some of the damage to his head, but was unable to restore full vision to his right eye. Nishizawa visited Saburo Sakai, while he was recuperating in the Yokosuka hospital in Japan.

Guadalcanal, 8th August, 1942: Taking a .30 cal. round to the head in combat, the bullet split the upper frame of the right glass of Sakai’s flight goggles and bounced off his skull. Covered with blood, blind in one eye and barely conscious, he shifts his silk scarf under his flight helmet to stop the bleeding and returns to his base in an epic 4 1/2 hour flight, while everybody has given up on him. He never regained the vision of his right eye, but a year later he was back in the cockpit.

#27

[LEFT]Nice history, obviously the Zero had not an armored windscreen :roll:[/LEFT]

#28

And Saburo Sakai was very lucky that he wasn’t killed :slight_smile:

#29

Hi all,

Late to the thread, but found some interesting stuff…sorry if a dupe, but check this link out: http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_BT-1.html

“…Aware of the failings of the BT-1, Northrop soon began work on an improved XBT-2…The new aircraft was thus given the designation XSBD-1 (eXperiment, Scout Bomber, Douglas). It would go on to be the most successful American dive bomber of the war…”

I throwing in for the Dauntless…remember watching Midway???

#30

Hey,

Which is the best dive bomber during ww2- How about the Mosquito dive bomber,
and i know its a real ww2 plane cause i build a model of the plane.
Much faster than a b-17 and carried explosive equitment and lest chance of being shot down by enemy, therefore could get more of its job done.
What do you guys think.

#31

Anyone who knows anything about the Mosquito (a difficult word to spell yet the semi-literate troll known as aly j manages it as “she”? manages so many other difficult spellings, while not being able to spell much simpler words) will see the quoted post as the trolling post it is. As will anyone who knows anything about aly j see it as a trolling post.

Do not feed the troll.

#32

HAH, Every plane, and ship and motor car is known as a “SHE”. Didnt you know that one RS?
Why the heck you answer why post for?
Remember what you said GAME OVER! Youre more of a troLL then i am.
All youre answers are copied out of a book or the internet, why dont you try and give youre own answers out- Bigger troll that i am RS.

oh yeah, just in case you forgotten GAME OVER TROLL BOY.

#33

Do not feed the troll

#34

Stuka gets my vote, mainly because of it’s accuracy. Goods points about the “fearfactor”, warfare is not always about the physical facts and performance.

#35

Ju-87G gets my vote. Rudel flew many of his record setting panzer killing missions in the G version.

Ju87g.jpg

Twin 37mm Flak guns.

#36

How can i be a troll when i got PROOF to back my information up.

Im talking about the Misitquito, middle of the page.

http://www.history-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/WW2/bombers.htm

#37

When exposed as a troll and frustrated by being ignored by not getting a response to its previous trolling statement which was intentionally erroneous to provoke an attention seeking dispute, one of the classic troll responses is to claim to have proof for the previous intentionally erroneous trolling statement and then to refer to a new intentionally erroneous trolling statement to try to generate a fresh dispute and to get the attention which the original trolling post failed to get.

When this happens, it is clear evidence that we are dealing with a troll and that the troll is becoming increasingly frustrated with its inability to generate the attention seeking response it seeks.

This will provoke the troll to try a more forceful form of the previously unsuccessful attempts to disrupt the forum, or to try a new approach from the little book of predictable and tedious troll tricks, as may be seen in due course.

Or perhaps not, as the interval between troll posts and even any posts by the troll has decreased under pressure of these sorts of troll exposure posts, although this statement may provoke a flurry of angry posts to allow the troll to work off its anger.

Do not feed the troll.

#38

Hi Aly,
Although the mosquito is a fantastic aircraft, I wouldn’t consider it a dive bomber like the stuka or dauntless.

#39

Hi.

My hand for the D4Y Suisei. Fast, highly accurate, good range, easy to fly and to maintain.

Yours

tom! :wink:

#40

Hi Mike M.

Yes, Stuka and Dauntless outclassed the Mosquito as a Dive Bomber.
Mosquito wasnt build in the first place to be a dive bomber, later on in her carrier she became a dive bomber,not as good as the other dive bombers,but for what she was built for in the first place,She did really well, and least i can say one good thing about her. She was a goodlooking aircraft. Cheers

RS if you answer my post, Im going to PM George allen